Hi guys looking for some advice on next steps for my 2011 R60 Cooper S with 90k kms on it. I’m working my way through issues and have recently replaced ignition coils, spark plugs, pcv valve, battery, all filters and and oil change (All parts genuine Mini - not oem or aftermarket).

Next issue is a fuel pressure issue and before I spend $5k on a HPFP, LPFP and a fuel pump relay fix I’d like advice/tips/experiences what to do first from some owners. High pressure pump was replaced in 2021 (with a genuine one) so it’s not that old and probably has less than 30k kms on it. The low LPFP pressure seems to be within spec but please correct me if I’m wrong.

The behaviour I get is pretty consistent. It usually only happens first start of the day or when the car has sat for 5-8hrs and has cooled down. Currently I have to start/stop 2-5 times to get fuel pressure without engine light/limp mode and if i leave it go into limp mode i get 33FF, 33FD and 2CO1 codes that i have to clear before limp mode goes away. No other errors present or persistent after clearing.
Below is my typical start routine with fuel rail pressure from ODB.

1st start: 420 KPa - runs really rough with RPM up and down as it trys to maintain a warm up idle. eng light comes on if you leave it running over 10secs
2nd start: 410 KPa - runs rough eng light comes on if you leave it running over 10secs
3rd start: 400 KPa - runs ok but eng light comes on if you leave it running over 10secs
4th start: 420 KPa - runs ok but eng light comes on if you leave it running over 10secs. Sometimes the pressure will increase to a more normal level during those 10secs and it will run fine.
5th start: 4000-5300 KPa - runs fine. Drives fine and pressure increases under acceleration.

I’m leaning towards the HPFP has failed again but happy for any opinions.

Thanks in advance!

 

Hello,

Just talked about here how to troubleshoot. The Bentley helps test it.

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...-no-start.html

Pumps: https://www.ecstuning.com/b-vitesco-...-parts/v-mini/ and https://www.ecstuning.com/News/MINI_...el_Pump_22527/

 

Thanks. Unfortunately I only have an app based reader so I can see the realtime pressure values but not the target but if the LPFP target is 5bar (500kpa) then I think I’m well under at 4-4.2bar (400-420kpa).

I think the point I’ve overlooked is the fuel rail pressure is measured after the high pressure pump so that reading does not specifically tell you which pump has the issue and you need to tap into the fuel line to get an actual reading.

I was really hoping to diagnose without tapping into the fuel lines as i don’t have the equipment to do it. So I think I’ll be off to the mechanic to diagnose but at least I can jump straight to the test instead of diagnosing with the reader.

thanks

 

That fuel rail pressure is WAY too low for the first 4 starts. The 5th start is good pressure at idle, but way too low for normal driving. My 2011 R60 typically idles around 750+ psi and rises to 2,000+ psi at speed.

I replaced my HPFP June 2, 2022 @ 91,870 miles because I had the same symptoms and codes you described. I purchased OEM from FCPEuro for $908.30. They underwrite a LIFETIME WARRANTY. My R60 now has 135,560 miles on it and she still runs like a champ. I monitor fuel rail pressure in real time via the OBD2 and it hasn't varied in behavior since the day I installed it. I'm fairly confident you need a new HPFP.

D

 

Ahh ok. Thankyou I think thats what i’ve been looking for some real world figures. I’ll change the apps settings (I’m using infocar on ios app) to PSI and watch the graph in real time while going for a drive. Just stationary today I get the below:
420kpa = 61psi (0rpm - ignition on only)
420kpa = 61psi (830rpm - engine running)
5th start - 5171kpa = 750psi (830rpm - engine running ok)
8400kpa = 1218psi (at 1700rpm)

I’ll have a look at FCPEuro and have a look at what tools are needed to replace the pump…it seems straight forward except for the fuel line clip/connection.

 

Actually, it’s about right for the low pressure pump. 450kPa is about 65psi. That’s the expected fuel rail pressure when just the low pressure pump is running. That tells me the low pressure pump is ok. The fuel filter is likely ok, too, but a clogged filter would show itself while engine running under load. My gut says your high pressure pump is going out again.

 

We have lifetime replacement also on these if that helps. +1 monitoring the fuel line pressure. Some of these pump last 100,000 miles and some go down the road after a year, its all over the place. I think the pumps are just very sensitive to any change in slight pressure that feeds and kills the HPFP.

 

I use BlueDriver in conjunction with an old iPhone (my girlfriend's old iPhone 5, if memory serves). It's not quite as comprehensive as Android offerings, but it gives me what I need in real-time, which is ambient air temp, coolant temp and fuel rail pressure.

These numbers are better, but still short the mark.

Here's my car at idle:


Fuel Rail Pressure seems to top off around 1700-1800 psi (2K-3K rpm sitting in the driveway. Actual driving pressure goes higher.).



You nailed it. Standard tools with the exception of that clip, which can be done with a micro screwdriver. BE CAREFUL, as I kind of broke one of the internal tabs because I didn't fully understand the principle of this clip (first time I'd ever seen one like this). It still functions (obviously). Just be careful. Honestly, replacing the HPFP is pretty easy. Taking my time, it took me about 30-40 minutes if memory serves. One of the easier jobs on my R60. Saved like $1,000 (stealership rate) doing it myself.

D

P.S. I like how the Fuel Rail Pressure gauge says "x1000" at the bottom. Ignore this. FRP is NOT 1,000,000 psi...LOL...

 

Thanks for the help so far.
I’ll checkout the BlueDriver app.

So I used the car a few times over the weekend and once it had started with a proper pressure I drove for 90mins and it runs fine from 730psi - 1800psi (5100-12000kpa). The 730psi was quite consistent when stopped in traffic and crawling along. When i parked for a few hours and tried to start it again it took about 7 try's to get the correct pressure again (i’d rather be starting multiple times than clearing error codes).

What I noticed this time on the low pressure starts is I was only getting 42-46psi (290-300kpa) just with ignition on and then started/running it was 130-174psi then dipping back down to 100psi (900-1200 then dropping to 690kpa). Increasing rpm/revving would raise the pressure but not to normal levels and it would drop back down.

Although I’m likely delaying the obvious fix I recall on my previous HPFP replacement it didn’t have any startup issues but it would struggle under load, going up a hill or any hard acceleration.

looking at the FCP site it looks like the genuine pump is US$1200 plus shipping. Converting that to AUD its about $1700 but it doesn’t seem to include the Australian GST of 10% on the site….around $200 cheaper than local stock so no sure its worth the extra hassle of shipping across the world. Or should i be switching to one of the cheaper oem one?

 

It's a good app. But just so you know, you need the hardware, too; The BlueDriver OBD2 reader. Mine is BlueTooth. I've had it a couple years and it works pretty consistently. I'll give it a 97% rating. About 3% of the time I have to futz with it to get it to work.

This still seems low to me. Per my photos, you can see that my fuel rail pressure is about 1,000 psi @ idle.

Are you talking about the low pressure fuel pump?

Yes, get the OEM. My understanding is that "OE" means the part has the "Mini" badge stamped on it. OEM is the same part sans the stamp. You can save hundreds or even thousands forsaking the brand badge on the part. I purchase OEM 90% of the time, occasionally veering off OEM for high-quality third party parts. For instance, I just replaced all my shocks and struts with Bilstein parts (purchased from FCP Euro). I saved a LOT of money this way without compromising quality.

Best of luck.

D

 

Fuel pressure in psi and RPM. First drop in pressure.

Fuel pressure in psi and RPM. Looked like pressure was about to recover then a second drop followed by limp mode (half engine light reduced power).

So for the first time it happened while I was driving along the highway. As you can see from the graphs pressure goes from the 900-1000psi (at about 2000rpm) to 73psi in just seconds followed by engine light and limp mode. After stopping the car and clearing the limp mode it drove fine but likely a sign of getting worse before complete pump failure.

 

Yep...looks like it's time for a new HPFP.

D

 

Thanks everyone for their help and comments. I didn’t realise how important getting that realtime data would be. Seeing it fail while driving and maintaining the LPFP psi pretty much ruled out an electrical issue, a relay issue and a low pressure pump issue.
Once again proving that Mini error codes only direct you towards a problem and you still need to do some troubleshooting.
Time to place my HPFP order!

 

Glad to help and you tracked it down.