Hey everyone,

I've been searching for 1st gen MINIs on and off for a few years now. We loved our '07 R56 but it was a maintenance nightmare, we love our R61 JCW but it isn't a "true" MINI. I've never driven a 1st gen and I want to see what the hype is about. Our initial idea was to find an R50 below $4k to fix up and autocross for the summer before selling it to our niece who is turning 16 and already a three-pedal elitist. But I told myself if I found a decent R53 I would consider buying it for ourselves.

Well... I think I found one.

2005 MCS
85,800 miles
3 owners
Dark Silver Metallic
Black leather seats
Slicktop
Chrono Pkg.

Offered at $6,800 from a MINI dealer.

Driver's seat is rough but not beyond repair, other various interior bits are worn, otherwise it looks quite clean. Two years of craigslist searches tell me that in Minnesota anything under $7,000 is bound to be either rusty or well into six-digits on the odometer. Meanwhile KBB and NADA both agree that a fair price is $3,250 - $5600. If this car is as clean as it appears it is obviously belongs on the high end of that price range. I was thinking of offering to buy at $6000 OTD and settling for something like $6500. I think this is one of those cases where online appraisal sites don't capture the full picture of rarity, condition, and desirability of a vehicle.

So what does NAM think? Should I attempt a cheeky offer or just pay the asking price and drive away happy? I'm test driving it tomorrow morning BTW. 0.o!

Cheers,
Ando

 

Just my 2cents. Even though there are some options that I see, (ChronoPak, Heated seats, Climate Control) that price seems a bit high. That price seems more like a JCW car. Don't know about the prices in your area but that is a bit much. There is also the adage, it's worth what someone is willing to pay. Good Luck.

 

That is a good looking car, and you'll know your market better than I will.

That said, that price seems high to me, particularly given that they don't show a service history. I bought my R53 about 16 months ago, with <80k on it. These cars are 15 years old. Most won't have had shocks/struts replaced. Front LCA bushings will be worn. Clutch may be reaching end of life. No matter how clean the car is, it's likely to have $1-2k worth of maintenance work needed (that's if you DON'T go to a dealership. My local dealer quoted me $6k worth of maintenance work on a pre-purchase inspection on my car ).

My initial advice would be to consider whether you have the ability to search nationwide, and buy a similar car in an area without the outrageous price, and drive it home. I paid $5200 OTD for mine, and that's with sales tax of almost 10%. There are lots of good options if you have the time and the willingness to travel, and aren't in a hurry.

If you're not able/willing to travel to save $1k, I'd at least go at them with a much lower offer than $6k. Bottom line is that they are banking on finding a collector-buyer for that car, rather than a regular market buyer. If it's been on the lot for a while, they may be willing to move it. Chances are they have plenty of margin in that car; it should wholesale for about half of what they're asking.

My final bit of advice points back to the first paragraph: Plan for some maintenance expense to freshen the car up as part of your initial entry cost. I did a lot of my own work, and spent about $2k (including farming out the clutch work), but that gave me a car that was better than new, and reliable enough to jump in and drive across the country without concern.

 

Agreed, it is over-market, but that's likely just the rust free tax associated with living in the salt belt.

Most private parties have been setting their prices higher than this for higher mileage or rougher condition MINIs. Of course I have no data on what these cars ultimately sell for, just what I've seen for asking prices and how long the ads stick around for. For reference I watched a comparable JCW sell for $10k last year. If you think overpriced MINIs are bad you should try shopping for a used WRX anywhere it snows.

Ultimately as you state, it does come down to my own tolerance. If they accepted my offer of $6000 OTD I would be happy knowing a paid a little too much for a solid car and didn't alienate my local dealer. (assuming it is a solid car of course)

Thanks for adding your $0.02. Just 339,999 more responses and I can buy an R53! =P

 

Thats a good looking car. Seems to have been well taken care of, and presented well by that dealer.

 

Thanks for the thorough response Husky. Yes, I'm planning another roughly $2k-$3k to freshen the car up. Theoretically with it being at a MINI dealer they can estimate the task list for me like a free PPI. Then I will take it to one of our two Indie shops that know MINIs. ;]

Youch, 10% !

I am willing to travel, and I'm certainly patient, but I think that would only be for the perfect dream car, an emotional purchase at the right price. I really just want to get into a first gen to see what the fuss is about. (Ideally this one is mechanically good enough to drive for the summer at which point I can decide if it's a forever car, if I want to sell it on, or if I want to fix it up to enjoy while I look for the "perfect" R53.)

At your example of $1000 off for a similar car I'm not sure it's worth two days away from work (I don't get paid vacation) and ~$500 in fuel, lodging, and wear and tear to make it happen. In my youth I would have relished the idea of driving 60 hours to score a cool car, but the economics don't make sense as an adult unless you can make a vacation out of it. With the current state of the nation turning this into a fun trip would be out of the question. Maybe late summer into fall...

 

I wound up in a Mini because I was finding insane prices shopping for a Subaru. Was looking for either a WRX or a turbo Forester.

Washington has insanely high prices for anything with a Subaru logo on it.

FWIW, I wouldn't worry about alienating your local dealer. The don't take it personally. Besides, if you're going to use their service department, they are going to love you. I'd be looking at it from the other direction - you are a loyal Mini owner who not only buys Minis, but also uses their service department. They should be willing to give you the preferred customer price. They should be trying not to alienate you.

 

Good point. My wife keeps telling me that if I roll over on price I need to at least score the giant 4' x 6' print of her car that's hanging between the lobby and service. In her defense they haven't sold the R61 since 2016.

OTOH, we've only serviced smaller items with them. Any big service items (R56 timing chain/VANOS) we go to an independent shop. We've shopped around a lot there but haven't yet purchased anything from them. (It's not our fault a JCW Paceman showed up at a local Honda dealer!) I'm just a loyal tire kicker in their eyes. -_-

 

I live in Texas so I'm probably biased but there's no way I would buy a 15-year-old Mini that's lived in Minnesota it's entire winter life. On top of that, I think that's an outrageous price for an '05. If you don't mind traveling I would look for something south of the Mason-Dixon line, preferably in a nice dry climate like AZ or NM.

 

I don't 100% disagree with you, but it's possible given the age and mileage that this was someone's summer car and it was garaged during winters, so it might not have seen much salt and slush. Impossible to say without looking underneath it, but not all rust belt cars are rusty.

 

Another option to negotiating on price is to point out that it is above the book value and agree to pay it if they do what it needs to justify the price.

Used car sales are way down now and they should be motivated to sell. You should be able to get a great deal.

Good luck.

 

For a car of that age, it's all about condition, condition, condition.
Look at it the other way round - if you owned it now & drove it in for an oil change, you'd drive it out with fresh oil & a $3,000 list of things that need to be done - that's how MINI dealers work.
Given that it's coming up on the 100,000 mark in a year or 18 months, I'd offer $5,000 & probably settle at $5,500,

 

Thanks everyone. Off to drive it now, I'll report back on how it went.

 

I bought a 05 R53, almost like that one. Not a slick top and no chrono-pack. That car was in good shape. Here is the link of it.
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ml#post4435427

The dealer(not Mini) wanted $6500. I offered $4000, we settled at $4500. I would suggest removing the tail light access panels and look for evidence of rust there.

Good luck

 

Big bonus points for body-color slicktop.

Eager to read how the testdrive/inspection went.

Back when I was looking a couple of years ago it was incredibly frustrating trying to find a slicktop.

 

I love those wheels. Are they truly two-piece wheels or just designed to look the part? I'm generally not a fan of greyscale cars but that Grey looks really good in person and has a bit of a classic Mini feel to it as well.

All the obvious problem areas looked rust free, though I wasn't clever enough to look through the light access panel like you suggested. The car has obviously been well taken care of and the condition reflects that. Apparently lived the majority of its life in CT, not MN. They still have to deal with winter, but less of it. Clutch felt strong, gear changes weren't buttery smooth but seemed fine, windows were sluggish, tiny bit of headliner sag near the hatch, saw a tiny puff of smoke from the exhaust once during the drive (my first dig). LCA bushings were replaced when the car came in, suspension felt fine to me but I have nothing to compare it to.

My lord you guys... I've never driven a 1st gen MINI before today.... I get it now. I just sort of expected it to be like our R56 but lighter, tighter, and overall more harsh, but I actually found the opposite to be true. It was light and tight, but the suspension soaked up bumps better than the R56, R61, and tons better than my Abarth. I've never owned a supercharged car but I enjoyed the instant and predictable throttle response compared to my last four turbo cars. I think my biggest disappointments were tired brakes and like every MINI I've ever driven, it doesn't like to blip revs for downshifts.

I'm trying not to build it up too much when discussing it with my wife because I think it's best to step into these situations with neutral expectations, but I've gotta say, I expected to enjoy myself and it still totally blew me away. To all the R53 loyalists... I understand now.

They've cleared me to take the car home at $6,250 OTD. Not horrible, but I definitely owe it to myself to see what else is out there. If I can find a BRG or either of the blues with an LSD I would feel much better about paying such strong money. In true salesman fashion they claim there is a ton of interest in the car and I should act fast if I want it. I'm sure someone will bite at $7000 eventually, but I certainly don't think it's going to move this week.

 

Yup. Pretty amazing secret...

I had zero experience with Minis when I started shopping. Drove an R50, then an R53, then an R56. Then I bought an R53. I was pretty shocked at how much difference there was between the first gen and second gen cars.

I've found the car blips a lot better with the Detroit Tuned bypass valve.

Don't be ashamed to report back when your willpower fails.

 

.... I'm a little ashamed. Don't worry, I did get better offers than I last posted... but I still don't wanna talk about final price. Like gumbedamit said "it's worth whatever a buyer will pay for it."


Getting to know "Pepper"

The FIAT is kicked out of the garage until I can shuffle some motorcycles around.

Wife drove it around town once we got home. She approves! Now for a name.

 

Congrats!

 

Beautiful! You did well. I've been buying cars for more than 35 years, and no one has ever even mentioned giving me a prize for the great deals I've gotten.

If the wife is smiling, you won.

 

Thanks! they might be for sale! I am not sure if they are a true 2 piece, sure some one on here has the answer.

 

Thanks friends. It's not perfect but I'm really happy to be part of the R53 club finally.

Hah! It can be tough to remember that with all the internet bragging that goes on. At the end of the day what you drive and how much you pay for it only matters to yourself, it's just a nice bonus if you can find like minded people to share the experience with.

Too true! Then again, she's the one that dragged me into the MINI world, she better like it. It's our 3rd MINI but it's the first one I can call mine (even though it's shared.)

Shipping wheels across the country is always a struggle to justify but I'll keep an eye out for them regardless. I would probably be more likely to buy lightweight wheels for autoX but it might be nice to have an excuse to ditch the runflats and stay OEM for non-performance driving.

 

Yes, the R98’s are two piece and are made by Ronal. The 17” R90’s by BBS are also two piece.