I'm thinking about getting one of the Bytetronik Full Access Tuner kits for my R53. I like the idea of being able to get in and change stuff when ever I want to for future mods or just experimenting with tunes. I've got a pretty good understanding of A/F ratios, timing and fuel curves, and tuning in general....but it's all been with carbureted chevy drag/race cars...never really messed with a laptop and FI car. I've read up a lot on different tuning software, and I have a pretty good idea on how everything works....and what I'm looking at as far as the graphs and charts go (VE tables).

If you take it slow, and don't get carried away....would something like the Full Access kit be a good thing for a beginner to start out with? I'm really wanting a tune for my car, but the problem is that there is nobody, and I mean nobody in my area that knows anything about tuning a mini. I think the closest place is around 8-10 hours away.

 

A roadtrip sounds more palatible to me than learning to tune my car myself...

 

I'm one of those people that loves to do my own work on my cars. Learning to tune my mini sounds interesting. Like I said, I'm familiar with tuning motors, just new to the software/interface part of it. Learning how to get the software and fuel/timing curves to do what you want is the tricky part (I'm assuming).

All those tuners had to start somewhere

 

Best of luck! Keep us updated. Hell, if you tune your car and chat it up here, a couple of guys might let you experiment on their cars as well. =X

 

I sure would like to talk to some other people that have used the software before I spend lots of money just to see "what if". And I surely don't want to melt down my motor.

 

Go to the source, they have a forum where most everybody is a bytetronik user.

http://mynesperformance.forumotion.com/

 

They will NOT give you access to their forum without being a customer that ALREADY owns their product. I know this as I was seriously looking to buy the product, but they would not give me access, so I did not buy from a company that will not reveal what there customers are saying.

I could understand not giving me write access, but not letting me read the forum was a little sketchy, I am sure they make a good product, but I will vote with my dollars!

 

Ian

I started a thread a while back about trying to get people together that might want to learn to program the mini and see about bringing the tools to do so into the public domain.

I got nothing but:

I did get some interest also, but ultimately decided not to try and persue it, as the negitive nancy's on this forum do not understand that the point of a place to gather for all the MINI owners is to be about helping one another. It can be done, and there is software out there to do it, yes it is not easy and yes it will take a good bit to learn and understand.

But it is a proven fact that the Subaru, Volvo, Ford and GM communities have successfully done it. The GM one is so open that you can put that computer in just about anything!

You can see from the quotes that some of the people are real and will be insulting about asking if you know what common terms in the tuning world are, ones that could easily be google'd if you did not know.

Here is a link to the thread if you are interested: https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...questions.html

I wish you luck and hope that you get more support and help than I did.

 

That sounds just about right... Being left in the dark by them is not un common.

I would take my business elsewhere if I where you.

 

Hey nobody ever has anything nice to say about the people who tried to save you from doing something stupid and blowing your engine up, until those people are proven to be right... So go ahead, take a whack at doing your own tune by Googling how to do it. You wont get any sympathy from me...

 

IQ,
As far as your original question, I have it & will try to help. The software itself is easy to use, user interfaces are pretty standard & adjustments to tables & such are fairly simple to learn. Using the software is no issue at all, it's knowing what adjustments to make that is difficult & takes special skill.

Now for a little rant, read on if you like.

Full Access is only one of the products that the Bytetronik team offers, and it is just that, Access to your OEM ECU, nothing more, it doesn't tune for you, or teach you how to tune, it is just access software, and in NO WAY WILL HARM YOUR CAR. The only harm ever done with this software has been by the people using it, not by the software itself and not by the software being hard to use or understand. It's the tuning that's difficult, not the tool! A while back there was basiclly a "buyer beware" movement going on, but that's actually inaccurate, it's really more of a "User Beware" situation, remember, no matter what, with power comes responsibility, and this tool will give you enough access for "you" to do some damage if you're not cautious in how you use it. (pretty much the same as any tool, use it wrong & you risk screwing something up, hell, hit something with a BFH & break it, whose fault is it, yours or the hammers? )

I was one of the original owners of this product, and have had no issues with "product" support, from the begining we were told that they WERE NOT going to teach us to tune, the product was simply designed to give the user access, nothing more. They did however offer the start of a disscusion thread on their website, but.... it never really went anywhere, simply because the people who were trying to learn the tuning started to realize how truly difficult BMW/Siemens tuning is to understand, and that unless you were a natural it was going to take a considerable amount of time & effort. So much so that I for one do not blame anyone who has taken the time for not wanting to share it openly.

Which in turn brings me to another point, the difficulty and special skill involved in BMW/Siemens tuning is the main reason it has never been open sourced & just given away, BMW are the ones who have made it so, (hell just look at what's going on with gen2 tuning) not the Bytetronik guy's, remember it's just that, BMW tuning, go to some of their forums & see how much info on actual tuning is available, and if you do find some you can use that, it's the same thing. This is the reason that people who actually have the skill & can do the job are scarce, in demand & can ask a premium for their services. It's just not the same as the other mfg's and prob. never will be. Just curious (I really don't know) how much Mercedes & Audi tuning is open sourced & free, because honestly I compare our cars to that. Face it, even if you figure in the BMW community in general, we are a much smaller community of owners & an even smaller community of Performance oriented enthusiests, it will probably never be the same as some of the others.

Considering the years & amount of time & effort that it took for a member of the Bytetronik team & others to de-code, understand & re-write the code involved in developing this software & that the alternative products to this are many thousands of dollars, I feel like the price is actually a pretty good bargin.

(Rant basiclly over, sorry guys)

Bottom line, if you want to try & tune your car yourself the software is easy to use and will do what you need it to.....but, if you don't know how BMW/Siemens works & don't want to risk doing it yourself or risk your engine during the learning process, just use one of their other product options, it doesn't have to be Full Access or nothing, at least with their CRM option you're getting a "full" tune (Idle, Daily & WOT) not just WOT like some of the other options out there. (Which are fine & have been working for many for a long time, you just need to decide what "you" want) Plus, if you do decide to go this route & realize it's too much, as long as you haven't done any damage, you can simply get them to do it for you, you'll already have all the ness. software & hardware & will just have to pay for the tuning itself.

 

BlwnAway

Thank you for taking the time to explain the product and its use and not being like all the other here that just say "it sucks" or "you are going to blow-up your motor".

Your response was well thought out and full of the information that the original poster was looking for and THAT is what we need more of here on NAM!

Again thank you for taking the time to to write this post and let hope that others can learn to share in a manner that helps the MINI community.

 

I can understand peoples concern when it comes to trying to tune your car...if you have absolutely no experience or knowledge in tuning a motor. If you don't know how to read your plugs to tell if your motor is running rich or lean, don't know the basics when it comes to A/F ratios, don't know how to listen for detonation from too much timing or running to lean (or both).........or don't have anyone to teach you and help you learn, then I agree, you don't need to be messing around with tuning software.

But on the other hand....before EFI tuning via a laptop was the big thing, think about how many people were out there (and still are) building motors, and tuning with a carburetor...no laptop, no O2 sensors checking AF rations, no readings on intake temps, AP sensors, no data logging...... How many of those guys were blowing up motors? Not very many.

Sure, every now and then you had some idiot that would melt down a motor...but if you have the basics skills.....most people could set their timing curves, and fuel ratios pretty well...and have a pretty good running motor.

I'm not trying to say that tuning with a laptop on an EFI motor is the same as chabging jets in a carburetor, but the same basic skills apply when you are trying to find out if the motor is running rich, lean, needs more timing, has too much timing, trying to smooth out power delivery, ....stuff like that.

All of these "tuners" out there had to start somewhere. To say that "people shouldn't be messing around with tunes on their cars because they are going to melt the motor down" is foolish. If you know the basics, have been around motors long enough, and have a good understanding of what you are actually wanting to accomplish when it comes to AF ratios, enrichment curves, timing curves....and so on, you should be fine.

And yes, I agree....the fact that Bytetronik won't let you get on their forums to see what people are saying unless you buy their product sounds a little sketchy. I'm guessing they are doing that for a reason.

Besides Bytetronik....who out there makes software that lets you get in and modify the OEM MINI tune? And why are they not selling the Full Access Tuning Kits anymore?

 

I agree!

If more people were open to learning "tuning".....maybe there would be more options out there for guys that want to do more mods to their cars, but don't because they either can't find anyone in their area to tune their car, or they don't want to dump a grand to have it done.

It's easy to say "nobody needs to be messing with their tunes expect the pro's".......it's harder to get out there and learn how to do it correctly, and help others out there learn it.

Do you know how many guys out there are tuning their own BWM's, Subarus, Corvettes, Camaros, and Mustangs with software....not paying for a "pro" to do it for them? Plenty of them...and do you know why? Because they weren't afraid to get out there and try it, and then teach other people how to do it. But....most of those guys change their own oil too...and I'm betting most MINI owners think that needs to be left to a "pro" also

 

Noone, the only other way to access the OEM ECU is with full on "Pro" software, which will run you upwards of 8 to 10k ($ that is....)


Who, Bytetronik?

 

I saw on another site that Bytetronik recently stopped selling the full access kit, and now only sells the full access lite that allows you to only use their tunes, not make your own. Not sure if there is any truth to that or not.

 

I really don't know, hit them up on their thread in mods/cooper s.

This is just a guess, but it wouldn't suprise me if that wasn't something that was decided once their tuning infrastructure was in place.

If you have some time, take a gander @ the threads from a couple of years ago, both here and on m/u, it may be the reason for both this & their forum rules. It was a real issue for a while, in the begining, no matter how hard they & some of us early users tried to make people understand the whole "it's just a tool issue" there were many people screaming about how the product screw'd up a few peoples cars, when in reality it was the users, as I stated earlier. And then when that was finally understood, the same people started screaming about how irresponsable it was to give that kind of control to inexperienced tuners, no matter how many warnings were given. It was really turning into sort of a "no win" situation no matter what or how good the product actually was. Honestly if it's true & that had something to do with it, personally I don't blame them, even though it does suck a little bit. Re-read some of those old threads & you'll see what I mean.

Anyway, good luck with what you do, keep us posted.

 

Besides Bytetronic......is there anything else out there that will let you make your own tunes for the OEM ECU?

 

DUDE You got me laughing so fricken hard on that "Negative Nancy" remark. But you are fricken right about most of the people here. I came here hoping to learn more about my car from others with more knowledge and then to also help pass along that knowledge to those wanting it. You try and gather a pool of brains together and no one shows. Or you get a few and then *******s shoot it down with their negative BS. Like you said. People like that either are trying to make a buck and don't want the little guy to find out the secretes of life, or they just don't fricken know the answer, or they heard it and saw it on youtube or something which again means they don't know but want to flap their mouth. The people that are like minded and understand how things work are far… and well far away when it comes to this site and some other MINI sites. I have to say I never had this issue on a Jag site or Toyota site or a VW/Audi site. People were more then willing to pool together and learn, create, share, etc.. What is so cryptic about a petrol engine and tuning it out? Nothing!

 

I agree. But it seems like lots of MINI owners would rather believe that it's come black magic art vs. something that can be done if you have a little common sense and some understanding of how tune a motor.

Just wish there was more info out there...seems like MINI's don't have many options for "self tuning". Everyone is too afraid to try anything on their own.

 

You need a little more than "Common sense, and some understanding" it only takes a second to knock out a bearing, and put a hole through your block. Its not as easy as you guys think it is... Not like old Chevys... Not like a carb where you are turning screws... It takes somebody actually TRAINED who knows what they are doing! Thats why actual tuners get payed what they do... Its not easy.

Seriously, if you are thinking about getting into tuning, its worth the $$$ to take an EFI101 class before you start.

If not you might be the next one to have a paperweight sitting in your garage for the next couple years.

 

Why isn't it as easy as tuning an "old Chevy" with a carburetor? If you can tune a 800hp small block, why can't you tune a 200hp mini motor? Lean is lean, rich is rich, too much timing is too much timing.....at least with FI you can monitor what your motor is doing. With the "old chevy"s you have to listen for detonation, check your plugs to get an idea on the fuel mixture, go off of very limited feed back.

Once you learn the software (the hard part), why is tuning a FI motor more difficult than a carburetor motor? It may be more detailed, with more parameters to change, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's "harder". If anything, a FI motor should give you more clues as to what's going on (data logging)...while a carb'd motor is pretty limited on the feedback it gives you.

Is it easier to screw something up with FI? Sure......a simple click of a button may have your motor running way to lean, and/or with way to much timing. But if you have some common sense about motor tuning...you are not going to do that.

 

its not as easy as tuning a carb...i have a classic mini which is carb'd...i turn a screw...flip the throttle and check my work...

with tuning the new minis...its like trying to negotiate a nuclear treaty with iran...you can agree to all sorts of things but the other side could decide to change the parameters of the deal...the DME isnt some static system that is a rigid set of codes...its an evolving system...

 

3 Years ago I was the one on your side of the argument... Said pretty much the same things as your above post, over and over again trying to defend self tuning. Guess what happened with that?

It is way more complicated than just turning a couple screws and a distributer. Many processes in the ECU will change depending on what you are changing... You cant just say "Hey computer, I want you to run an 11.8 AFR across the board" and expect it to do that. It doesn't work that way. You need to go in and know exactly what map does what, and how much of a change is needed to get what you want. Data logging doesn't tell you, it just gives you the data of how it is running. There are so many maps just for fuel, you can get lost very easily. Same goes for timing... Then you have all the scales to rework... Not an easy process.

Good luck finding a tuner that will help you understand things when you get lost. Most of them could probably easily fix things you would get wrong, but I don't know of any of them who are worth a damn that wouldn't just show you the door. They went to school so they wouldn't mess things up, and you thought you knew better so they aren't going to feel sorry and fix it for you.

In a way I wish you would buy a ByteTroniK kit, and start tuning... It would make for some interesting reading for a couple weeks...

 

I have built many race bike and tuned many race bikes. I have also dealt with several tuning softwares. The mini ecu is so different. I purchased the full FA53 kit and played with it some. The mini ecu was designed to overcome and adapt to changes (within the parameters set/tuned in the ecu). It's not a basic Briggs engine where you adjust a screw and it's set (tps % = fuel %). It involves several fuel tables that have to work together, several timing tables that need to work together. It's not some much the software as it is the mini ecu design. My work has gotten crazy and now I don't have the time to dedicate to learning the software. I will be building my car and then getting a remote tune from mynes. Just my 2 cents. If the person doing your tuning doesn't know bmw/mini ecu behavior, pay some one who does. Honda, subaru, porsche, etc. don't work like mini