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DimSport, and probably a couple of the other high end high dollar tools. You're looking at 10K+ though... But you aren't limited to just MINIs or one car...
I cant think of any other software off the top of my head.
I know several places have the hardware/software to do it. I had Way adjust the maps for a drivability tune when I first got the car. I watched him do it and it looked like the things I had done on bikes. BMW does not want you to touch the mini ecu and thats why its so hard to find software. From what I understand you have to hack into the ecu because it has a security feature. So you have to figure out the algorithm for the security to get into it, and from what Ive seen/read FA are the ones that are actively working on improving the software. They are not a huge company with 50 programers they are a small shop that has the passion and desire to improve their product.
Thanks for the information. This was very helpful. So for those that go this route, to stay or before going to a standalone, are they going to have to continually pay for a retune being from what Ive read… the R53 ECU is just going to learn around what ever tune the FA tuner gives it?
No, this is another misconception, when the OEM ECU is tuned by someone who know how to work w/ the adaptations (ie, Bytetronik, Jan, Way & others) that Will Not happen. This is the big importance in using a Mini tuner. Think about it, if that were the case, everyone who has ever had their car tuned would have to have it re-done every 6 months or so.
I cant think of any other software off the top of my head.
I know several places have the hardware/software to do it. I had Way adjust the maps for a drivability tune when I first got the car. I watched him do it and it looked like the things I had done on bikes. BMW does not want you to touch the mini ecu and thats why its so hard to find software. From what I understand you have to hack into the ecu because it has a security feature. So you have to figure out the algorithm for the security to get into it, and from what Ive seen/read FA are the ones that are actively working on improving the software. They are not a huge company with 50 programers they are a small shop that has the passion and desire to improve their product.
Why are the BMW M3's and other BMW's so easy to get into? Why and how is the MINI ECU so different?
Get a Vipec and be done with it. Fully tuning capabilities. I've got one and couldn't be happier. It'll allow you access to everything and you can create your own base maps.
Get a Vipec and be done with it. Fully tuning capabilities. I've got one and couldn't be happier. It'll allow you access to everything and you can create your own base maps.
Isn't the vipec a stand alone ecu that replaces the oem ecu? If that's the case, don't you loose all kinds of factory functions that the oem unit controls? I went to the vipec site, and I don't really see anything specifically for the mini......do you have to piece the system together??
Isn't the vipec a stand alone ecu that replaces the oem ecu? If that's the case, don't you loose all kinds of factory functions that the oem unit controls? I went to the vipec site, and I don't really see anything specifically for the mini......do you have to piece the system together??
The Vipec is standalone. About the only thing I've heard that may not work is if you have the chrono gauge package. That's the big face with all the gauges in it. Very rare. The other thing that is being worked on is the computer that tells you what mpg you're getting and how many miles to empty. That's about all I know that doesn't work. Everything else does. Updates are constantly being released so it won't be too long before that's working again. That and OBD II. But you have your computer that'll read codes. It's specifically plug n play for the MINI. You must have a base tune for the car to start and run. You can create that with the Vipec software. It also has launch control and no lift to shift capabilities. It looks like the stock ECU so there's no extra anything. And a wideband can be connected without any extra harnesses to the Vipec. Contact Jan from RMW. Also got to the RMW website on the forums and there's tons of info about those of us with the Vipec.
Thanks for the info on the Vipec.......but what about cost? When it's all said and done and the car is running like it's supposed to....what do you estimate the cost to be? I'm guessing it's going to be double or triple what the Bytetronik FA software is?
Thanks for the info on the Vipec.......but what about cost? When it's all said and done and the car is running like it's supposed to....what do you estimate the cost to be? I'm guessing it's going to be double or triple what the Bytetronik FA software is?
You would have to contact Jan at RMW for pricing. I don't remember what I paid and I bought 1000cc injectors with it. I don't know how much Bytetronik charges but keep in mind they aren't giving you an ECU and you are limited as to how much you can tune a stock ECU so it's not an exact comparison. Vipec does give you the power to fully control every aspect of your engine and it's components whereas with just software you are limited by the OEM ECU. And I plan on joining the 350+ club hence the investment
Just about $2250 out the door, then the tuning charges/dyno time... A good thing with ViPEC is that it is a main stream stand alone... People who actually go to school to learn tuning are taught exactly how to set everything up, so you aren't locked into only having one option for a tuner. Also having most actual tuners being familiar with the system ensures you wont have a "Pro Tooner" do what Tobz Performance did to me with ByteTroniK...
Literally we where on the phone with Mike Mynes, and Jason, on the dyno trying to figure out why we kept changing the value of cells and no change was present in the logs or dyno graphs. After they wouldn't help, or offer another tooner advise, Tobz had one of the timing maps set in excess of 37* out the top, the car was running fine on another map, so he said it was good to go... Every time I changed more than 1000 feet in altitude, it was instant limp mode, because the ECU switched maps, which sped up my inevitable engine failure. All because he was un familiar with how the R53's Bosch/Seimens ECU inter populated between maps.
I would have already gone with vipe but where I live they have emission testing and don't allow anything but stock ecu. Only way around that is to change my title to a kit car and the juice isn't worth the squeeze for me. If I spend much more money I will just sell the car and parts then go buy a noble or elise
Once ViPEC makes the OBDII port functional again, that will not be an issue, unless you tell them... Its not like they are tearing the car down looking for parts that aren't stock, and 99% of people wouldn't know what they where looking at anyhow.
Just about $2250 out the door, then the tuning charges/dyno time... A good thing with ViPEC is that it is a main stream stand alone... People who actually go to school to learn tuning are taught exactly how to set everything up, so you aren't locked into only having one option for a tuner. Also having most actual tuners being familiar with the system ensures you wont have a "Pro Tooner" do what Tobz Performance did to me with ByteTroniK...
Literally we where on the phone with Mike Mynes, and Jason, on the dyno trying to figure out why we kept changing the value of cells and no change was present in the logs or dyno graphs. After they wouldn't help, or offer another tooner advise, Tobz had one of the timing maps set in excess of 37* out the top, the car was running fine on another map, so he said it was good to go... Every time I changed more than 1000 feet in altitude, it was instant limp mode, because the ECU switched maps, which sped up my inevitable engine failure. All because he was un familiar with how the R53's Bosch/Seimens ECU inter populated between maps.
I think that is the main issue that kills the possibility of "private owners" trying to buy software and learn tuning on their own....not the difficulty/challenge of doing so. Take myself for example.....I would have to be nuts to spend $2250+ an a new ECU for a daily driver car that probably is only worth around $7500.....especially when realistically, any HP gains are going to be very minimal. I'd rather have a nice MotoX bike than gain 10hp on my daily driver mini
Now if you race your car, and have some sponsors.....or are just a weekend warrior, then yes....I can understand spending the money. But for most guys, they are never going to spend that kind of cash on a daily driver mini.
I guess that pretty much explains the lack of tuning options out there for people to go with.
You have to pay to play... Or you can just stay home.
At least with ViPEC the ECU is totally replaced with a more capable unit, with more features than the stock ECU can even think about.
Makes the $850 for Bytetronik look like a waste. Considering the same base program is a FREE download for other makes (ECU FLASH) and all you have to do is pay the $250 for the Tactrix tool to upload and download tunes....
I think that is the main issue that kills the possibility of "private owners" trying to buy software and learn tuning on their own....not the difficulty/challenge of doing so. Take myself for example.....I would have to be nuts to spend $2250+ an a new ECU for a daily driver car that probably is only worth around $7500.....especially when realistically, any HP gains are going to be very minimal. I'd rather have a nice MotoX bike than gain 10hp on my daily driver mini Now if you race your car, and have some sponsors.....or are just a weekend warrior, then yes....I can understand spending the money. But for most guys, they are never going to spend that kind of cash on a daily driver mini. I guess that pretty much explains the lack of tuning options out there for people to go with.
Well keep in mind not everyone wants to invest the time and money for research and development for software. That and it's a way to keep people who don't know what they are doing out. The Vipec is the answer to tuning when you go for big hp in a MINI. You asked for a solution to tune yourself, this is the cheapest way for the MINI. As originally suggested, let someone who has the ability and software tune it for you. With the right mods you'll get more than 10hp out of it and everyone is happy. And buy a bike. Win win.
Hi there ,
are some guys using bytetronik and ncs expert on the same computer?
I have bytetronik since 3 years working fine , and last week I installed INPA and NCSexpert .
INPA run also fine but when I load NCS expert
Hi all,
I have been studying Siemens EMS2000 DME for almost 10 years.I did it as a hobby.When I first opened the Bytetronik sw ,I thought, that's it the GOD of tuning sw.Big mistake.When I looked deeper I realized that it contains many mistakes,maps wrong names, wrong maps axix, wrong units for maps and axis and so on.I will give some examples.
1.Full load fuel map.
Bytotronik map.
Real fuel map
Siemens docs describe this map very correctly.
2.Crancking injection map.
Bytetronik map.
Real crancking injection map
My conclusion was that using Bytetronik is not the best way to tune Mini R53.Best way is to use Winols editor from EVC and a damos file(original mappack of Siemens EMS200).
ViPEC ECU is not a bad option,will never be at the high level of protection of original Siemens ECU,it is just a versatile tool, but without accuracy and perfection of Siemens EMS200.
Hi all,
I have been studying Siemens EMS2000 DME for almost 10 years.I did it as a hobby.When I first opened the Bytetronik sw ,I thought, that's it the GOD of tuning sw.Big mistake.When I looked deeper I realized that it contains many mistakes,maps wrong names, wrong maps axix, wrong units for maps and axis and so on.I will give some examples.
They promised to address most of those issues with the next update. That promise was made over 3 years ago tho...
I'm still shocked that after the R53's being out for 17yrs....we don't have better tuning options.
I also have an 07' BMW 335i....lots of tuning options out there. I'm running an app on my phone called MHD. It's cheap (under $200) and I can load in multiple different tunes depending on my bolt on mods, and the type of fuel I'm running. Super simple, super easy, and it just works. Not to mention the dozens of shops around the US that have guys who can write custom tunes for them.
Why are we so limited when it comes to our Minis? One or two softwares out there (none that great or easy to use), and just a select few guys that can write custom tunes for them. Is the Siemens DME in the R53 Minis really that much of a mystery to tuning companies?
I'm still shocked that after the R53's being out for 17yrs....we don't have better tuning options.
I also have an 07' BMW 335i....lots of tuning options out there. I'm running an app on my phone called MHD. It's cheap (under $200) and I can load in multiple different tunes depending on my bolt on mods, and the type of fuel I'm running. Super simple, super easy, and it just works. Not to mention the dozens of shops around the US that have guys who can write custom tunes for them.
Why are we so limited when it comes to our Minis? One or two softwares out there (none that great or easy to use), and just a select few guys that can write custom tunes for them. Is the Siemens DME in the R53 Minis really that much of a mystery to tuning companies?
It's a niche market and there's very little to gain with just a tune (compared to turbo cars).
I'm still shocked that after the R53's being out for 17yrs....we don't have better tuning options.
Why are we so limited when it comes to our Minis? One or two softwares out there (none that great or easy to use), and just a select few guys that can write custom tunes for them. Is the Siemens DME in the R53 Minis really that much of a mystery to tuning companies?
Is not about a mystery.
First of all is a Siemens EMS DME,used on few cars,mean Volvo and Renault.Unlike these cars, Mini don't have a MAF sensor, and is equiped with a supercharger.Even new facelift DME, wich is MS5150 DME, is different HW than EMS 2000(prefacelift DME) , but same sw inside.
Access to the documentation of this DME sw is very limited,done in a very technical language,and the fact that makes the study difficult is the multitude of sw versions, over 30 as i know,you also need a solid knowledge of technical German language.
The big mistake of many tuners is that they try to modify this software using a Bosch tuning strategy and result is a big fail.
The only market solution , mean Bytetronik , is expensive and full of mistakes.Also is not friendly user, because cable is married with the car , and sw is encrypted, mean have a NOREAD tag, is locked in reading with other usual flashing tools from market.
Is not about a mystery.
First of all is a Siemens EMS DME,used on few cars,mean Volvo and Renault.Unlike these cars, Mini don't have a MAF sensor, and is equiped with a supercharger.Even new facelift DME, wich is MS5150 DME, is different HW than EMS 2000(prefacelift DME) , but same sw inside.
Access to the documentation of this DME sw is very limited,done in a very technical language,and the fact that makes the study difficult is the multitude of sw versions, over 30 as i know,you also need a solid knowledge of technical German language.
The big mistake of many tuners is that they try to modify this software using a Bosch tuning strategy and result is a big fail.
The only market solution , mean Bytetronik , is expensive and full of mistakes.Also is not friendly user, because cable is married with the car , and sw is encrypted, mean have a NOREAD tag, is locked in reading with other usual flashing tools from market.
Trust this guy , he's personally done wonders with my car !
Is not about a mystery.
First of all is a Siemens EMS DME,used on few cars,mean Volvo and Renault.Unlike these cars, Mini don't have a MAF sensor, and is equiped with a supercharger.Even new facelift DME, wich is MS5150 DME, is different HW than EMS 2000(prefacelift DME) , but same sw inside. Access to the documentation of this DME sw is very limited,done in a very technical language,and the fact that makes the study difficult is the multitude of sw versions, over 30 as i know,you also need a solid knowledge of technical German language.
The big mistake of many tuners is that they try to modify this software using a Bosch tuning strategy and result is a big fail.
The only market solution , mean Bytetronik , is expensive and full of mistakes.Also is not friendly user, because cable is married with the car , and sw is encrypted, mean have a NOREAD tag, is locked in reading with other usual flashing tools from market.
