Swirl marks/A detailer's - customer's worst nightmare
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Former Vendor
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From: NJ
Swirl marks/A detailer's - customer's worst nightmare
SWIRL MARKS ARE OFTEN A NATURAL CONSEQUENCE OF THE JOB YOU ARE PERFORMING
Published in "Auto Laundry News" in January 1999
If I mention “swirl marks” to you as a detailer, how do you react? Do you get the shakes, start to sweat, develop a nervous twitch? Some detailers view swirl marks as a major catastrophe, while others view them as a minor obstacle in completing a perfect job.
The real problem occurs when a vehicle with remaining swirl marks is delivered to the customer: The detailer is viewed as unprofessional and/or incompetent. The customer is now hesitant to have the car detailed again, fearing the same results. This gives the industry as a whole a bad name. Unfortunately, detailers who have the skill and expertise to do the job correctly are grouped in the same category as those who do not.
WHAT ARE SWIRL MARKS?
Swirl marks, or buffer marks as some people refer to them, are circular cuts or abrasions in the paint surface. They take the form and reflect the diameter of the buffing pad and follow the direction in which the detailer was moving the buffer along the paint surface. Many times the area will have a reduced degree of gloss.
These cuts and abrasions reflect light differently off the panels of the vehicle. The light will bounce off in various directions, instead of uniformly in one direction. You will see the most variance in direct sunlight. The gloss and clarity will be greatly affected because of these dreaded “swirl marks.” Unlike most light scratches (which can make their appearance anywhere on the vehicle), the swirl marks are unacceptable to customers because of their unnatural appearance, and because the customer “paid” for these results.
HOW DID THEY GET THERE?
Swirl marks are not a factory option, and they don’t just suddenly appear out of the blue. Somebody, in the process of trying to do something to the paint surface, put them there. Unfortunately, there are many reasons why swirls appear;
here are some of the explanations:
* Choosing a buffing pad that is too aggressive is common. A heavy cut wool pad will inflict deep swirls on most clear-coat surfaces. In fact, the use of most wool pads on a clear-coat surface will leave swirl marks.
* Using the buffer at very high speed will continue to put swirls in the finish. Speed creates heat. Heat softens the clear and that combination is a recipe not only for swirl marks, but also for “burning” the paint finish.
* The wrong choice of compound or polish can also produce swirl marks. Using a product that is too aggressive will cut into the surface quicker and deeper and leave swirl marks.
* Not using enough compound or polish will quicken the appearance of swirls. Keeping enough product between the buffing pad and the paint surface will act as a lubricant and slow the swirling process down.
* Not keeping the buffing pad flat on the paint surface can also cause swirls. Many detailers have a tendency to “come up on edge” with the outer part of the buffing pad. Doing this will put swirls in the paint much faster.
In addition to these issues, there are other variables to consider. Know the model car you are working on. Has this make of vehicle given you trouble previously? Some vehicles are very easily scratched. It does not take a lot to put a mark in the paint surface. If you get to know how hard or soft the clear is, you can judge what can and can’t be done to the surface without leaving swirl marks.
What exactly needs to be done to the paint surface? Are there major imperfections on or in the paint? Does it just need a polish and a wax? If you are not doing corrective procedures to the paint, you should utilize the least aggressive method possible.
If you take account of all the factors that could impact the creation of swirl marks before you begin to work on the car, you can develop a game plan to do the job correctly.
HOW TO CORRECTLY REMOVE SWIRLS.
Once you realize that the swirl marks are there, you can determine what method to use to remove them. Often, you will leave swirls behind as a natural consequence of the job you are performing. For instance, a deep scratch has to be sanded or compounded to remove it. This will certainly cause swirls. Other examples are acid rain removal, or the elimination of scuffs and/or other blemishes. Most of the time, the first step in this process will be aggressive enough to leave swirl marks behind. Before you can take corrective action, you must identify what type of swirl you’re dealing with:
Compound Swirl - This is a swirl mark that is cut deeper into the finish. It was probably brought about by a heavy cut wool pad, and a medium to heavy cut compound. Depending on the speed of the buffer at the time it was created, the swirl mark may be fairly deep into the surface.
Polish Swirl - This type of swirl is still unsightly, but not as deep into the paint surface. This may have been created with a lighter wool pad, or even a light-cut foam pad.
To remove swirl marks you must take your time; a number of steps may be necessary. If a vehicle has been heavily compounded to remove scratches, acid rain, haziness, or other imperfections from the paint, you may want to try a multi-step swirl-removal process. Your swirl remover product must have light cutting ability to level out the surface. You also must use a light cutting foam pad, or a genuine lambs wool pad as the first step. This first step may sometimes be necessary because the swirls may be fairly deep into the clear coat, and leveling them in two steps will ensure total removal. If you were to use just a polishing foam pad and a very light swirl-remover polish, you may not remove them completely, and they may reappear after a few washings.
The second step in a deep-swirl removal process is the same as if the vehicle had light polish swirls to begin with. Use a foam pad with a PPI rating of about 80 (For more information about PPI ratings, see the article “Buffing Pads” in the November 1998 issue of Auto Laundry News). This type of pad will not cut so deeply and, as a result, will not put more swirls back into the surface. Run the high-speed buffer at no higher than 1,500 rpm. Remember, don’t be too aggressive with speed and heat in this step or you’ll defeat the whole purpose of the exercise. A true swirl remover product with some cutting or leveling ability will be the product of choice to use on the surface. Work in small sections at a time and move slowly over the area that you are buffing. You should be able to see the swirls disappear if you are doing it correctly.
WHY ARE THEY STILL THERE?
If the process was done correctly, the swirl marks will not come back. You have leveled out the surface and removed the swirl marks. The trouble some detailers have with swirls is this:
1.
Wrong choice of buffing pad, swirl remover product, and/or speed on the buffer. Some products have a lot of silicone and oils in them and may hide or fill the swirl marks, giving the detailer the false impression that they are gone.
2.
Poor lighting. Many shops have lighting that is insufficient to correctly check to make sure the swirls are gone. Fluorescent light is not enough to correctly view the panel. I have found that halogen lights simulate sunlight sufficiently well to check if the swirls remain. They are cheap, portable, and have different lighting capacities from 300 to 1000 watts. If halogen is not available, you may have to take the vehicle outside into the sun. This is a great aid in making sure the swirl marks are gone. Fluorescent light shows many imperfections that natural light does not, but does not pick up fine swirl marks all that well.
3.
Inexperience. You must have a good eye and know what you are looking for. The panel may have had a scratch or blemish to begin with. You compounded it out and gave the panel a nice shine and it looks quite a bit better than when you started, but fine swirls will probably still be present. A good detailer will know that the panel is still not quite finished.
4.
Poor quality control or not enough time given to work on the vehicle. If the detailer is somewhat inexperienced, there should be a supervisor present to point out the fine swirl marks and instruct him to perform an additional step to remove them. Sometimes, however, there is not enough time, or the job isn’t paying enough to justify that extra step.
It is discouraging to take a vehicle into direct sunlight and discover on its finish swirl marks you thought you had successfully removed, or, worse, having an unhappy customer bring the vehicle back when he finds the marks. By far the worst, though, is the customer who discovers the marks, but does not bring the car back — ever — because he views you as an unprofessional incompetent.
GO AWAY AND NEVER COME BACK!
There is an age-old method of quality control you can employ when removing swirl marks. Fill a spray bottle with a 50/50 mix of isopropyl alcohol and water. Spray the surface you have just completed and let the solution sit for approximately 15 seconds. Wipe the area with a clean soft towel and observe. What you have done is remove any silicone, wax, and oils that may have filled the swirls instead of eliminating them. This is where the halogen lights come in handy. Shine the light directly on the panel and look for fine swirls. If they are still present, you should be able to see them. If you have done the job correctly, you will see a clear, bright reflection off the panel with a great shine, depth, and clarity. This finish says the swirls are gone.
DON’T LET THE COLOR FOOL YOU[/B]
We all know that swirl marks are more easily visible on dark colored cars. You actually see the swirls in the clear coat but the dark background color (the base coat) is a good backdrop. Don’t get lazy and skip a step because you may be working on a light colored vehicle. You may have to look a little harder, but you will see swirls on a light color. A customer with a good eye will see them, too. Remember that you are buffing the clear, and the same steps and procedures should be followed regardless of the vehicle color.
DON’T BE AFRAID[/B]
Don’t be afraid of swirl marks. Sometimes the biggest mistake you can make when detailing a vehicle is being too timid with the paint. If the surface needs to be cut into, there is a good chance that some kind of swirl mark will be left behind. If you do not give the paint surface what it needs to look its best because you are afraid of leaving behind swirl marks, you are cheating both yourself and the customer.
Don’t worry about swirl marks. Be aware of them but don’t be afraid of them. If you are not being paid for a multi-step procedure, try not to use a wool pad. Most of the time, this type of pad will leave behind swirl marks to some degree. If a one-step procedure is being used, employ a finishing foam pad on the high-speed buffer, or use an orbital machine to polish the vehicle. The key in the buffing process is to know how the paint will react to each step you are performing. Once you know that swirl marks are fairly easy to remove, you will have the confidence to do what the car needs.
Kevin Farrell owns and operates Kleen Car, a full-service auto detailing business located in New Milford, NJ. His background includes auto dealership experience and training through DuPont, General Motors and I-CAR.
Published in "Auto Laundry News" in January 1999
If I mention “swirl marks” to you as a detailer, how do you react? Do you get the shakes, start to sweat, develop a nervous twitch? Some detailers view swirl marks as a major catastrophe, while others view them as a minor obstacle in completing a perfect job.
The real problem occurs when a vehicle with remaining swirl marks is delivered to the customer: The detailer is viewed as unprofessional and/or incompetent. The customer is now hesitant to have the car detailed again, fearing the same results. This gives the industry as a whole a bad name. Unfortunately, detailers who have the skill and expertise to do the job correctly are grouped in the same category as those who do not.
WHAT ARE SWIRL MARKS?
Swirl marks, or buffer marks as some people refer to them, are circular cuts or abrasions in the paint surface. They take the form and reflect the diameter of the buffing pad and follow the direction in which the detailer was moving the buffer along the paint surface. Many times the area will have a reduced degree of gloss.
These cuts and abrasions reflect light differently off the panels of the vehicle. The light will bounce off in various directions, instead of uniformly in one direction. You will see the most variance in direct sunlight. The gloss and clarity will be greatly affected because of these dreaded “swirl marks.” Unlike most light scratches (which can make their appearance anywhere on the vehicle), the swirl marks are unacceptable to customers because of their unnatural appearance, and because the customer “paid” for these results.
HOW DID THEY GET THERE?
Swirl marks are not a factory option, and they don’t just suddenly appear out of the blue. Somebody, in the process of trying to do something to the paint surface, put them there. Unfortunately, there are many reasons why swirls appear;
here are some of the explanations:
* Choosing a buffing pad that is too aggressive is common. A heavy cut wool pad will inflict deep swirls on most clear-coat surfaces. In fact, the use of most wool pads on a clear-coat surface will leave swirl marks.
* Using the buffer at very high speed will continue to put swirls in the finish. Speed creates heat. Heat softens the clear and that combination is a recipe not only for swirl marks, but also for “burning” the paint finish.
* The wrong choice of compound or polish can also produce swirl marks. Using a product that is too aggressive will cut into the surface quicker and deeper and leave swirl marks.
* Not using enough compound or polish will quicken the appearance of swirls. Keeping enough product between the buffing pad and the paint surface will act as a lubricant and slow the swirling process down.
* Not keeping the buffing pad flat on the paint surface can also cause swirls. Many detailers have a tendency to “come up on edge” with the outer part of the buffing pad. Doing this will put swirls in the paint much faster.
In addition to these issues, there are other variables to consider. Know the model car you are working on. Has this make of vehicle given you trouble previously? Some vehicles are very easily scratched. It does not take a lot to put a mark in the paint surface. If you get to know how hard or soft the clear is, you can judge what can and can’t be done to the surface without leaving swirl marks.
What exactly needs to be done to the paint surface? Are there major imperfections on or in the paint? Does it just need a polish and a wax? If you are not doing corrective procedures to the paint, you should utilize the least aggressive method possible.
If you take account of all the factors that could impact the creation of swirl marks before you begin to work on the car, you can develop a game plan to do the job correctly.
HOW TO CORRECTLY REMOVE SWIRLS.
Once you realize that the swirl marks are there, you can determine what method to use to remove them. Often, you will leave swirls behind as a natural consequence of the job you are performing. For instance, a deep scratch has to be sanded or compounded to remove it. This will certainly cause swirls. Other examples are acid rain removal, or the elimination of scuffs and/or other blemishes. Most of the time, the first step in this process will be aggressive enough to leave swirl marks behind. Before you can take corrective action, you must identify what type of swirl you’re dealing with:
Compound Swirl - This is a swirl mark that is cut deeper into the finish. It was probably brought about by a heavy cut wool pad, and a medium to heavy cut compound. Depending on the speed of the buffer at the time it was created, the swirl mark may be fairly deep into the surface.
Polish Swirl - This type of swirl is still unsightly, but not as deep into the paint surface. This may have been created with a lighter wool pad, or even a light-cut foam pad.
To remove swirl marks you must take your time; a number of steps may be necessary. If a vehicle has been heavily compounded to remove scratches, acid rain, haziness, or other imperfections from the paint, you may want to try a multi-step swirl-removal process. Your swirl remover product must have light cutting ability to level out the surface. You also must use a light cutting foam pad, or a genuine lambs wool pad as the first step. This first step may sometimes be necessary because the swirls may be fairly deep into the clear coat, and leveling them in two steps will ensure total removal. If you were to use just a polishing foam pad and a very light swirl-remover polish, you may not remove them completely, and they may reappear after a few washings.
The second step in a deep-swirl removal process is the same as if the vehicle had light polish swirls to begin with. Use a foam pad with a PPI rating of about 80 (For more information about PPI ratings, see the article “Buffing Pads” in the November 1998 issue of Auto Laundry News). This type of pad will not cut so deeply and, as a result, will not put more swirls back into the surface. Run the high-speed buffer at no higher than 1,500 rpm. Remember, don’t be too aggressive with speed and heat in this step or you’ll defeat the whole purpose of the exercise. A true swirl remover product with some cutting or leveling ability will be the product of choice to use on the surface. Work in small sections at a time and move slowly over the area that you are buffing. You should be able to see the swirls disappear if you are doing it correctly.
WHY ARE THEY STILL THERE?
If the process was done correctly, the swirl marks will not come back. You have leveled out the surface and removed the swirl marks. The trouble some detailers have with swirls is this:
1.
Wrong choice of buffing pad, swirl remover product, and/or speed on the buffer. Some products have a lot of silicone and oils in them and may hide or fill the swirl marks, giving the detailer the false impression that they are gone.
2.
Poor lighting. Many shops have lighting that is insufficient to correctly check to make sure the swirls are gone. Fluorescent light is not enough to correctly view the panel. I have found that halogen lights simulate sunlight sufficiently well to check if the swirls remain. They are cheap, portable, and have different lighting capacities from 300 to 1000 watts. If halogen is not available, you may have to take the vehicle outside into the sun. This is a great aid in making sure the swirl marks are gone. Fluorescent light shows many imperfections that natural light does not, but does not pick up fine swirl marks all that well.
3.
Inexperience. You must have a good eye and know what you are looking for. The panel may have had a scratch or blemish to begin with. You compounded it out and gave the panel a nice shine and it looks quite a bit better than when you started, but fine swirls will probably still be present. A good detailer will know that the panel is still not quite finished.
4.
Poor quality control or not enough time given to work on the vehicle. If the detailer is somewhat inexperienced, there should be a supervisor present to point out the fine swirl marks and instruct him to perform an additional step to remove them. Sometimes, however, there is not enough time, or the job isn’t paying enough to justify that extra step.
It is discouraging to take a vehicle into direct sunlight and discover on its finish swirl marks you thought you had successfully removed, or, worse, having an unhappy customer bring the vehicle back when he finds the marks. By far the worst, though, is the customer who discovers the marks, but does not bring the car back — ever — because he views you as an unprofessional incompetent.
GO AWAY AND NEVER COME BACK!
There is an age-old method of quality control you can employ when removing swirl marks. Fill a spray bottle with a 50/50 mix of isopropyl alcohol and water. Spray the surface you have just completed and let the solution sit for approximately 15 seconds. Wipe the area with a clean soft towel and observe. What you have done is remove any silicone, wax, and oils that may have filled the swirls instead of eliminating them. This is where the halogen lights come in handy. Shine the light directly on the panel and look for fine swirls. If they are still present, you should be able to see them. If you have done the job correctly, you will see a clear, bright reflection off the panel with a great shine, depth, and clarity. This finish says the swirls are gone.
DON’T LET THE COLOR FOOL YOU[/B]
We all know that swirl marks are more easily visible on dark colored cars. You actually see the swirls in the clear coat but the dark background color (the base coat) is a good backdrop. Don’t get lazy and skip a step because you may be working on a light colored vehicle. You may have to look a little harder, but you will see swirls on a light color. A customer with a good eye will see them, too. Remember that you are buffing the clear, and the same steps and procedures should be followed regardless of the vehicle color.
DON’T BE AFRAID[/B]
Don’t be afraid of swirl marks. Sometimes the biggest mistake you can make when detailing a vehicle is being too timid with the paint. If the surface needs to be cut into, there is a good chance that some kind of swirl mark will be left behind. If you do not give the paint surface what it needs to look its best because you are afraid of leaving behind swirl marks, you are cheating both yourself and the customer.
Don’t worry about swirl marks. Be aware of them but don’t be afraid of them. If you are not being paid for a multi-step procedure, try not to use a wool pad. Most of the time, this type of pad will leave behind swirl marks to some degree. If a one-step procedure is being used, employ a finishing foam pad on the high-speed buffer, or use an orbital machine to polish the vehicle. The key in the buffing process is to know how the paint will react to each step you are performing. Once you know that swirl marks are fairly easy to remove, you will have the confidence to do what the car needs.
Kevin Farrell owns and operates Kleen Car, a full-service auto detailing business located in New Milford, NJ. His background includes auto dealership experience and training through DuPont, General Motors and I-CAR.
Vendor & Moderator :: MINI Camera and Video & c3 club forum
iTrader: (6)
Actually when I see swirls in paint, I smile with glee because it means that the paint can be significantly improved. It also means that there is room to teach the owner proper car care techniques to maintain that work.
A heavily swirled out black car is actually the most exciting type of car to work on because of the dramatic before and after.
Personally the article leaves out the most common causes of swirls. Poor washing/maintenance techniques--whether they are commercial car washes or poor washing/drying techniques at home.
Phil, while these articles are informative, how about sharing some written by yourself showcasing your own expertise? The most important reason being that the majority of those here in Detailing101 are not professional detailers..which these articles are aimed squarely at.
Just my 2 cents.
Richard
A heavily swirled out black car is actually the most exciting type of car to work on because of the dramatic before and after.
Personally the article leaves out the most common causes of swirls. Poor washing/maintenance techniques--whether they are commercial car washes or poor washing/drying techniques at home.
Phil, while these articles are informative, how about sharing some written by yourself showcasing your own expertise? The most important reason being that the majority of those here in Detailing101 are not professional detailers..which these articles are aimed squarely at.
Just my 2 cents.
Richard
Thread Starter
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Former Vendor
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 868
Likes: 0
From: NJ
Rich that's all well and good but why not take an expert view from the side of manufacturing and a well respected person in the industry.
no worries I'll have writes up to share and the will be my personal take on how to attack different paints and problems.
thanks for sharing your feedback. I'm sure some here would like to see this side as well. Published articles from the auto car care industry.
I will also be posting customers works with products as well.
no worries I'll have writes up to share and the will be my personal take on how to attack different paints and problems.
thanks for sharing your feedback. I'm sure some here would like to see this side as well. Published articles from the auto car care industry.
I will also be posting customers works with products as well.
.
Vendor & Moderator :: MINI Camera and Video & c3 club forum
iTrader: (6)
Exactly, and look at this "Experts Credentials"
Kevin Farrell owns and operates Kleen Car, a full-service auto detailing business located in New Milford, NJ. His background includes auto dealership experience and training through DuPont, General Motors and I-CAR.
In this forum, we all know that dealerships are a major cause of problems for our car both before and after the sale.
Not saying that Kevin isn't a good, well respected guy. But in this forum nobody knows who he is, and your credentials are just as respected as his is in this forum, since you are both unknowns here.
Also as far as Published Articles go, what part of the auto car care industry are these from? I mean, in this forum, although many may not be professionals, they are by no means uninformed. They know the difference between production level and quality detailing.
I know for a fact you do quality work. I have yet to see ANYBODY writing about quality paint care in any published articles..unless you mean published on the net or in a trade newsletter? I'm just saying you put a lot of value into this guy and his articles..yet when I read them, they seem to be missing the target here.
Again, just my 2 cents.
Richard
Kevin Farrell owns and operates Kleen Car, a full-service auto detailing business located in New Milford, NJ. His background includes auto dealership experience and training through DuPont, General Motors and I-CAR.
In this forum, we all know that dealerships are a major cause of problems for our car both before and after the sale.
Rich that's all well and good but why not take an expert view from the side of manufacturing and a well respected person in the industry.
no worries I'll have writes up to share and the will be my personal take on how to attack different paints and problems.
thanks for sharing your feedback. I'm sure some here would like to see this side as well. Published articles from the auto car care industry.
I will also be posting customers works with products as well.
no worries I'll have writes up to share and the will be my personal take on how to attack different paints and problems.
thanks for sharing your feedback. I'm sure some here would like to see this side as well. Published articles from the auto car care industry.
I will also be posting customers works with products as well.
Also as far as Published Articles go, what part of the auto car care industry are these from? I mean, in this forum, although many may not be professionals, they are by no means uninformed. They know the difference between production level and quality detailing.
I know for a fact you do quality work. I have yet to see ANYBODY writing about quality paint care in any published articles..unless you mean published on the net or in a trade newsletter? I'm just saying you put a lot of value into this guy and his articles..yet when I read them, they seem to be missing the target here.
Again, just my 2 cents.
Richard
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,268
Likes: 4
From: Always curious ...
I agree.
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,268
Likes: 4
From: Always curious ...
The end of swirl marks?
Just read this interesting article on some new "self-healing" material that may get rid of scratches/swirls. Might be a while, if ever, before we see this stuff on cars, but perhaps some day ...
Trending Topics
2nd Gear
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
this is why i tell the dealer not to wash my car after service--one of my cars came out dirtier (water marks) than when it went in--porsche dealer
Vendor & Moderator :: MINI Camera and Video & c3 club forum
iTrader: (6)
Great find! I'm actually involved with a new company that has patented a similar technology. The coating makes the paint harder (twice as hard as your fingernail) as well as self healing in UV light. Unlike this PR announcement, we have product in hand as it's been sold overseas for the past year...and I've actually applied this product and seen it first hand. The future of paint care is still very bright.
With the technology I'm involved with, you would still do a complete detail before using this as the LSP to seal in all your work. We are less than a year away to market..potentially measured in months.
I've already got over a dozen "test" cars lined up.
Richard
With the technology I'm involved with, you would still do a complete detail before using this as the LSP to seal in all your work. We are less than a year away to market..potentially measured in months.
I've already got over a dozen "test" cars lined up.
Richard
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,268
Likes: 4
From: Always curious ...
Great find! I'm actually involved with a new company that has patented a similar technology. The coating makes the paint harder (twice as hard as your fingernail) as well as self healing in UV light. Unlike this PR announcement, we have product in hand as it's been sold overseas for the past year...and I've actually applied this product and seen it first hand. The future of paint care is still very bright.
With the technology I'm involved with, you would still do a complete detail before using this as the LSP to seal in all your work. We are less than a year away to market..potentially measured in months.
I've already got over a dozen "test" cars lined up.
Richard
With the technology I'm involved with, you would still do a complete detail before using this as the LSP to seal in all your work. We are less than a year away to market..potentially measured in months.
I've already got over a dozen "test" cars lined up.
Richard
Thread Starter
|
Former Vendor
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 868
Likes: 0
From: NJ
Rich, I hear you on this but Kevin is definitely a reputable guy, he also helps BMW and GM develop a ton of products for their paint process and polishing process at the factory, don't be so quick to discredit him.
You guys are a hard bunch but I can tell you this I won't give up so easily, I will post my details up and write ups as well. I do feel these articles are great and worth it for me why re invent the wheel when this information is out there.
I feel there is a need for these I feel that there also maybe some members that would feel the same. Who knows I may be completely wrong.
I've been doing this for a long time I'm not a fly by night by any means.
I do appreciate the feedback.
Thanks!
You guys are a hard bunch but I can tell you this I won't give up so easily, I will post my details up and write ups as well. I do feel these articles are great and worth it for me why re invent the wheel when this information is out there.
I feel there is a need for these I feel that there also maybe some members that would feel the same. Who knows I may be completely wrong.
I've been doing this for a long time I'm not a fly by night by any means.
I do appreciate the feedback.
Thanks!
Banned
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,759
Likes: 0
From: Denver, CO
There is an age-old method of quality control you can employ when removing swirl marks. Fill a spray bottle with a 50/50 mix of isopropyl alcohol and water. Spray the surface you have just completed and let the solution sit for approximately 15 seconds. Wipe the area with a clean soft towel and observe. What you have done is remove any silicone, wax, and oils that may have filled the swirls instead of eliminating them. This is where the halogen lights come in handy. Shine the light directly on the panel and look for fine swirls. If they are still present, you should be able to see them. If you have done the job correctly, you will see a clear, bright reflection off the panel with a great shine, depth, and clarity. This finish says the swirls are gone.
-Heather
This forum is not exactly a crowd that's slapping on Turtle Wax with $40 Wal-Mart buffers.
I mean, I don't know...I think there is definitely an audience for these *kind* of articles here...I just don't think that the orientation of these articles suits the audience. I also think that if I were a paying vendor on these forums, the fact that someone else who is NOT a paying vendor (such as the author of this article) could potentially get some sort of financial benefit (increased business, etc) from the re-publication of the articles would really bother me.
Just my $.02. But I think spending some time to understand your audience might benefit you here. Your write-ups are great and so are the product recommendations. I don't want to see you discredited entirely just because people are taking a look at these articles and going "Ah, it's that guy who talks to us like we're idiots again" and ignoring everything you write.
So the whole "tough crowd" thing...yes, I think we are kind of a tough crowd, but I think it's because we're so well-educated, thanks to Richard and Heather and Nick.
Thread Starter
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Former Vendor
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 868
Likes: 0
From: NJ
that's completely fair.
I never thought or indicated that anyone here is an idiot or didn't know what they were doing.
I'm completely new here and I definitely feel I can give a lot to this forum as I do all the other forums I'm on, hey this should be proof right here, its 12:34 am on Saturday night and I'm here replying back so I'm not some corporation that is seeking to just sell, I'm a car guy first or I wouldn't be doing this at all.
Time will tell and I strongly believe I do offer products that will compliment both the offerings of Nick, Heather, and Rich.
Heck I'm one of Rich's resellers, and he knows at the end of the day what I'm about, as well Nick does too we go back to the Audi boards.
MLPearson79 I love the fact that you just came out and said this, its make my life a ton easier, thanks!
I never thought or indicated that anyone here is an idiot or didn't know what they were doing.
I'm completely new here and I definitely feel I can give a lot to this forum as I do all the other forums I'm on, hey this should be proof right here, its 12:34 am on Saturday night and I'm here replying back so I'm not some corporation that is seeking to just sell, I'm a car guy first or I wouldn't be doing this at all.
Time will tell and I strongly believe I do offer products that will compliment both the offerings of Nick, Heather, and Rich.
Heck I'm one of Rich's resellers, and he knows at the end of the day what I'm about, as well Nick does too we go back to the Audi boards.
MLPearson79 I love the fact that you just came out and said this, its make my life a ton easier, thanks!
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Former Vendor
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 868
Likes: 0
From: NJ
on another note I have had people come at me because I do post my write ups and my methods, so my thoughts about posting Kevin's articles is a non bias approach towards detailing, yes its basic but at the same time he's not saying use Menzerna this to solve your problems or Megs, or etc...
That's one of the big reasons I post it and heck sometimes its nice to go back to basics as stupid or simple as it is.
Hopefully you understand my thoughts on these articles.
That's one of the big reasons I post it and heck sometimes its nice to go back to basics as stupid or simple as it is.
Hopefully you understand my thoughts on these articles.
No and I totally didn't think you were trying to act like people were idiots or whatever...I just think it was how the combination of things kind of came off. I just didn't want you to feel chased off because no one was on board with what you were saying/doing!
Most of us are product junkies, so variety is always good!
Most of us are product junkies, so variety is always good!
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Former Vendor
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 868
Likes: 0
From: NJ
awesome I will start posting some products and like I said I'm not here to go and hurt the people that built this forum, I want to be a value add.
thanks again for the honesty and the feedback.
thanks again for the honesty and the feedback.
Vendor & Moderator :: MINI Camera and Video & c3 club forum
iTrader: (6)
We know that..and just trying to let you know that what works on other forums, doesn't work over here. We've seen vendors come and go...they post specials expecting people to jump on the sale but they never participate.
That's why I said, post your own work...not others. Over here. credibility comes from proving your knowledge and commitment..not from your title in the industry.
Also, it's pretty much mandatory..if you're a pro, show Before and Afters..not just pretty After pix of whatever polish/wax you're trying to promote...not saying you've done this..but just a heads up.
re: Resellers
Yep I know...that's why I'm giving you a heads up! Your participation is welcome here, just remember who you are talking to. MINI owners are VERY different from typical car enthusiasts...and the most OCD ones are here in Detailing101...lol.
So welcome to NAM!
Richard
That's why I said, post your own work...not others. Over here. credibility comes from proving your knowledge and commitment..not from your title in the industry.
Also, it's pretty much mandatory..if you're a pro, show Before and Afters..not just pretty After pix of whatever polish/wax you're trying to promote...not saying you've done this..but just a heads up.
re: Resellers
Yep I know...that's why I'm giving you a heads up!
Your participation is welcome here, just remember who you are talking to. MINI owners are VERY different from typical car enthusiasts...and the most OCD ones are here in Detailing101...lol.So welcome to NAM!
Richard
I'm completely new here and I definitely feel I can give a lot to this forum as I do all the other forums I'm on, hey this should be proof right here, its 12:34 am on Saturday night and I'm here replying back so I'm not some corporation that is seeking to just sell, I'm a car guy first or I wouldn't be doing this at all.
Time will tell and I strongly believe I do offer products that will compliment both the offerings of Nick, Heather, and Rich.
Heck I'm one of Rich's resellers, and he knows at the end of the day what I'm about, as well Nick does too we go back to the Audi boards.
Time will tell and I strongly believe I do offer products that will compliment both the offerings of Nick, Heather, and Rich.
Heck I'm one of Rich's resellers, and he knows at the end of the day what I'm about, as well Nick does too we go back to the Audi boards.
I'm with Mel on this one too. We've been around this block many times and have rehashed and regurgitated to newbies over and over again. How do I wash? What is a swirl? What pad? What is Clay? What product? Over and over again. Since the newbies can't apparently read existing threads it just gets asked over and over with the same answers and the same arguments - over and over.
So for me I enjoy seeing before / after postings, reading reviews on products (though I'm pretty well PRIMA through and through) and seeing different techniques & tools.
If this Kevin guy is an industry expert he must have kept it all to himself cause the dealers sure don't know the stuff.
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