I am going to Skip Barber around July 4 and am doing the three-day racing school. After which I hope to get my SCCA regional competition license. My dad and I want to build our own MINI Cooper S SCCA race car. My question is, how much money realistically can be returned to us by selling the stock components. We were contemplating purchasing a used mini with maybe 50 thousand miles on it and doing a good cleaning/rebuild/building it up to SCCA class specifications. We would like to keep the costs down to around $25K to $30K. We don't have mechanical degrees (he's a structural engineer and I'm only 17) but I have done normal maintanence and replacements on my current 2006 Cooper S. Are we right in thinking that we can do this?

Thank you for any replies. We're both really excited!

Nick

 

Nick, what class are you guys thinking about? Need to know that before you can get answers.
Actually I see now that you will be building an S. Only two clases to run that in if in fact you have thenm in your region.
Showroom stock and ITE. ITE is regional so that may not work.
ITE is against some very fast cars so I don't think that's a great idea. SS is a low mod class that you will have few parts to sell off the car.
Think about other clubs like BMWCCA and NASA. Much more options.

Also, I don't think SCCA will grant you a license from Barber, but I could be wrong.

 

Hmm. That's an interesting twist in the whole plot. We haven't bought the car so we're open to suggestions. The reason we would go SCCA is because after the 3 day school you qualify for a regional SCCA license depending on your performance in the school (according to Skip Barber's website). I'm the school also makes me more likely to qualify for a BMWCCA or NASA license right? I don't have my heart set on SCCA. That said, I don't mind running another car if that makes it easier. My ultimate goal is to drive in the ALMS or the LMS so I need to start somewhere that will make me well qualified for that position.

Thanks for replying!

Nick

 

Nick, if that is your goal, and your budget is limited then do go with a different car. Look into Spec Racer Ford with SCCA.
You are the same age as my son. If you were him I'd tell ya to do a couple of years in Karts and then take it from there. Personally I'd do this before I sent you to a three day Barber school. After some good kart experience then Barber and maybe then into Formula Ford.
If you guys had the big budget then I'd tell ya to look into Formula BMW.

There are many ways into a race car. Getting into ALMS is something that you might have missed the boat on. It just takes so much money to get there, and when you get there they don't pay you to drive, you pay them,... I believe.
But, one can do anything if they really want. Keep your dreams. It's never too late.

 

Hello Nick,
I have been racing my 2003 Cooper S since Sept. of 2003. The car was petty stock initially, just suspension, bolt-cage, headers, pulley etc...
By Feb. of 2004, I enlisted in the SCCA race school at Roebling Road. It was a blast! Ther were 70 cars in my run groups on the track at the same time.
I was on well used Pirelli Corsa's for the whole weekend.
My first qualifying put me 9th on the grid. To make things interesting, first race was in the rain...I finished 5th overall.
Next day was sunny, qulified 9th again on grid, finished 4th overall behind two Corvettes, a E-36 c-mod M3 .
The SCCA school is probably the least expensiveway to go provided you have a race car that meets the safety specs. The BMW schools will probably have more dedicated instructors per the number of students.
Ask Greg, he just completed a BMW school.
As for finding a class for your car, BMWCCA and Nasa will be the most competitive. BMW should consider revising the JP rules to allow the Mini Cooper S to use a reduction pulley on the supercharger. Without that allowance, there is no way to race in J-prepared. At the moment there is a poor guy racing a Copper S in I-Prepared...that is crazy considering that all the JP boys are getting 200 to 230 or more hp at the wheels. Apparently no one goes back to the rules and checks hp to weight ratios after the cars get modified.It's possible to get that king of HP on the MINI, they just won't let you.I was racing in JP until I got the pole in class at TWS, at that point they rulled the pulley illegal while others nationwide had been using smaller pulleys but were not competitive either.
That is why I have gone to D-Mod, you can just about anything in that class. It also can be competitive in Nasa GTS-3.
Be happy to share my build experience so far.
Good luck,
Steve

 

Hi Nick,

If you have your heart set on SCCA I can help. I have a 2005 MCS for sale that I won 2 SCCA Showroom Stock Championships with (2005 & 2006)as well as the June Sprints and several track records. It was built from a new car, not a rebuilt wreck. I have all the spares and accessories you need. If interested send me a PM or you can call me at 704-746-1471.

Pete

 

Thanks for the responses all. My main goal is to simply go racing right now. Whichever will best prepare me for more advanced fields down the road. Based on the responses, it sounds like I should look more into NASA or BMWCCA instead of SCCA.

As far as ALMS, I am a "volunteer crewmember" with the Flying Lizard Team and know Eric Ingraham, the crewchief very well. Also, I have been taught by David Murray, the Ford GT driver with the Robertson team this year. I spoke to him about how difficult it was to become a driver and he is basically saying that to go to ALMS, you have to start small, work your way up, and go looking for an opportunity, and not wait for the opportunities to come to you.

Paulo, I would love to hear about how your car is coming along. That looks like an interesting class to race in maybe for down the road. Is NASA GTS-3 class almost identical to D-mod in SCCA? Onasled, you're in D-mod also, right?

A thought: would the I-Prepared class give any means for an R56 to race with its turbo? That's beyond my scope right now but an R56 should be able to push that sort of horsepower and be able to navigate around the rules governing supercharger pullies.

Racer43, would you mind sending me a few pictures of the car as well as a price? My e-mail is ndlarge@hotmail.com. That would be fantastic.

Once again, thanks for all the responses.

 

is that Pete Taylor?! Congrats on the wins!!!!!

 

Check out the Barber Motorsport thread in this road racing forum, there are some pics of my Mini on the pole and ahead of some GTS-4 cars as well.

 

I agree with onasled you really should look into spending some time in a kart. Karts are an amazing tool that many pro racers use to stay sharp. Im in my second year of karting and its been amazing so far.

I was in the same boat as you. My dad and I were struggling to find the right thing for me to race. We toyed with spec miata, formula ford, bmw things like that but in the end we chose karting and it was a good choice. Karting has become insainly competitive in the us and is training many future pro racers. It might not be what you want to do but check it out you might be surprised how much fun it is going 85 mph an inch of the ground with no seat belt.

 

The latest discussion is to get a Porsche. I know what you're thinking, that's not cheap. However, we would be looking at an older Porsche (996) to run in SCCA. I've been told with the rear-end heaviness of the Porsche, and the sheer number of them out on the race track, it would be my best opportunity to make it into racing. None of this is confirmed but I thought i'd update on what we've been hearing and what our "aquaintences" have been hearing.

Karts sound like a lot of fun, actually. I considered karting, but like RockyMC40 said, it's not exactly my idea of what I want to do. However, my head isn't so big that I think that I have to go to the big leagues right out of the gate just in case that was on your mind while you were reading this .

 

I met the #1 driver (at the time) of the Flying Lizard Team at Le Mans about three years ago. It was on Friday when fans get to walk around the pit area, and he and his wife and daughter (I think) were walking around. I went up and introduced myself to them. They seemed like really nice people.

Anyway, if you haven't already seen it, you might want to check out the thread below. I think it would be in your price range.

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...d.php?t=144268

 

Nick

If you are interested in racing I believe the best foundation you can get is in Karting. I currently run in a pro series and can tell you every front running driver has karting experience and many of them still kart to keep their skills sharp. The experience gained in karting, from starting a race to passing/braking and patience will be honed at the karting level. There is not a better way to start racing than Karting.

You will find the SB school will give you the basics and teach you racing lines, braking, etc. With these skills you will understand racing and what is required to run quickly. Also, after your school you may want to consider the SB Miata series, it is a very good way to race with drivers of similar ability at a fraction of the cost of owning a car. Also, the SB Formula series is a step above the Miata's and will also provide excellent training and competition beyond your expectations.

With regard to a 996, I think you would quickly find the expenses to run these cars far exceed what you may budget. I know the costs of running both the 996 and 997's and it is expensive to run up front. Also, when you consider the money associated with the Porsche owners/drivers, you will see keeping up with the Jones' requires a lot of $$. Remember, the cost of the car is just a fraction of running the car.

So I would recommend you get a shifter, use the tools gained at SB to start winning in it and seriously consider the Miata series prior to moving forward. The great thing about SB is the cost of racing in their series is very low and will afford you excellent experience to move on to your own car in the future.

Good luck, you will have a blast at your school.

drive fast...drive smart

Mark

 

I heard an interesting bit of information from a friend of mine who has a porsche and is in the loop with anything porsche. He said that a 996 Porsche 3.6 liter engine costs about $8,000 while a 997 engine could cost $40,000. Could this be true? Anyway, back to the topic at hand. I see what you mean by running costs. I've seen a lot about shifter karts and they look like a great field to get into. The Skip Barber racing series also look interesting. I think that is the best option for me right now. Thanks for the replies everyone! I'll try to keep you all posted on what happens. See you at the track!

 

Hello again.

This message was specifically intended for onasled, but his private message box is full. I'll go ahead and put the question out to anyone that's within earshot:

I have a few questions about SCCA D-prepared (I believe that's what you run in, right?) My dad and I are now thinking about a Z3 3.0 liter coupe. I've decided i'm more interested in mechanics and working on the car than in racing, but taking the car racing would be an extra bonus for the hard work that goes into building a car. I did a lot of reading on the SCCA rules and D-prepared seems to be the best option for the Z3 3.0 liter since the "goal" for D-prpared is around 250 horsepower and the engine capacity limit is 3 liters (the M54B30 motor actually displaces 2980 cc).

One question I have is the weight limit. Is the 2800 pound weight limit kerb weight or gross weight (with driver and all fluids on board). I would imagine it to be the latter but I figured I ought to ask.

My other question regards body modifications. You obviously have done extenive body modifications to your mini. The D-prepared guidelines, however state that the "exterior OEM profile should not be altered." How were you allowed such freedom in the body profile (same question goes for your lack of headlights)

Obviously, my being mistaken about you being in D-prepared would make all of my questions irrelevant.

Thanks in advance for everyone's reply.
Nick

 

onasled runs d-mod, but with BMWCCA. sorry i can't answer any of your other questions. good luck w/ your build.

 

Thanks bean. I had a feeling that was the case. Any one else out there with some D-prepared SCCA experience?