I had an interesting dinner conversation last night about an article in The Economist.

http://www.economist.com/printeditio...ry_id=11484056

The article discusses the evolution of gear boxes and how the automatic transmission has come a long way. What this article implies is that automatic transmissions have/will become so advanced, lightweight, and efficient that the traditional stickshift will become obsolete.

Im curious about what people have to say on the subject.

 

you know, early cars had the ignition advance adjusted by a lever on the steering wheel..... That's gone to the ECU now...

the latest Porsches are becoming available with dual-clutch manumatics. Shaves 0.2 sec off of thier sub 5 second 0-60 times...

Truth is they are faster than people, provide better performance than people can do, and with the computer controlled clutches, don't suffer the efficiency hit that traditional fluid coupled autos have. This is all good.

And after tracking a bunch of cars with "flappy paddle" gearboxes in them, I can say that they are a hoot on the track where you can keep both hands on the wheel and shift at will as you get into the start of the turn.

But as many will say, they just aren't as much fun, or engaging to drive.

Usually the cost differences of the boxes keep a certain amount of manuals moving through the pipeline. If the cost of the fancy boxes drops enough such that the price point becomes the same, who knows.

Personally, I think it's more of a generational thing. Older car enthusiasts will think it's sacralige to give up the time honored skill of heel-toe downshifts, and the younger set will embrace the newer tech as it's really more performance oriented. When us old grey haired faarts are all gone, the issue will be moot and everyone will have flappy paddles or no paddles.

Matt

 

They will have to pry my shift lever from my cold, dead hand.

For me it is not so much about pure performance as it is car involvement (automatics are so sterile, regardless of how they are actuated), and the feeling that one belongs to a select, unique group who have mastered an obviously dying skill.

 

Beautifully said!

The thing is that the torque converters of autos these days have become smaller and lighter, just generally more efficient. The better that autos get the more car enthusiasts will be willing to buy them. Look at Ferrari- paddle-shifter trannys have become the norm and DSG'd cars are becoming more common as well.

The Audi TT 3.2 comes with a DSG and when it was test driven on Top Gear, Jeremy said that "it almost shifts too fast". Some might say that these transmissions might take the driving out of driving, but in terms of performance, like you you said, it can shave milliseconds off of shift times, ultimately improving 0-60 times by large amounts.

After reading your post the more I think about it the more I do think that stick shifts will become less and less common. But hey, look at the carb! The fastest drag cars are still carb'd and people still do drive them despite FI being the dominant technology.

 

All I have to say is, if I dont have a clutch to engage I wont drive.
It wont feel right if im not using both feet!

 

If you do have to drive an auto it looks like your dead pedal will be getting a beating!

 

in sport mode, full throttle shifts were really jarring! Fast but real abrupt!

A buddies 355 F1 has an intelligent system. It only does it's fastest shifts above 6000 RPM when floored (or above 80% throttle).

Matt

 

I test drove a DSG equipped GTI and the shifts were seamless and lightning quick. I'd happily drive/own a DSG equipped car.

And this video from m7 even makes me want one in a new MINI: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBVm5QIYR3Q

 

I don't know.. we had have the automatic trans for years, and people seem to go for the manual.trans
sometimes is just about preferences, and I think the AT vs MT is just that..

 

A friend of mine also has one of these - beautiful cars. The paddle shift boxes have come along way since the 355.

I personally will always prefer a manual gearbox...but it's reached the point where auto's are quicker. F1 used auto's for a long time (I think they are clutchless manuals now or some-such)

 

I love that statement and agree.

 

I'd say that when the AT gets down to the point where the mileage difference is negligible, when it allows the control that folks get from a manual, and when the paddles stop being flappy, then there won't be a whole lot of advantages left for the stick.

 

I for one can not drive a car as my daily driver if it is not a MT. granted AT are great to have during rush hour. but i take a trip every weekend because i love to drive. i remember during the summer when i had not work or school i would drive a full 9hours a day just having fun in my Mini. Even if i do hit rush hour, i just take the "fun" trip around. also known as the long way. But i learned pretty quickly it doesn't matter how long it takes, its how fun it was doing it.

 

I personally prefer driving in traffic with a manual - you can come of the gas and coast - I find it just as annoying holding the car on the brake as it is holding the clutch down. And in these cases I just pop it out of gear and put the handbrake on.

 

Without an MT, it isn't really driving.

 

I guess I'm just "riding" then. Catch me if you can.

Had manuals years ago. Been there, done that. Had to learn a whole new way of thinking about car control when I got the MINI auto... wish it had a dual-clutch tranny, but the Aisin isn't awful. I'm hoping MINI will have a real DSG type tranny before I buy another one... paddling through the twisties is a wonderful thing...

And I agree with the Dr.... as auto-shifting dual clutch gearboxes with manual modes become higher volume and more affordable, they'll eat the manuals lunch, including in performance & race cars (F1 proved that).

 

An interesting theoretical discussion but, imo, ATs still have along way to go. They cost more, they tend to decrease fuel economy, and you still lose some control over the car in odd driving situations. Maybe someday, but not during my lifetime.

 

Cost more - check. Though volume will have a lot to do with that for the DSG boxes.
Decrease fuel economy - true for torque converter-type trannies. Dual-clutch trannies, not so much.
Lose some control during odd driving situations... unless you want to coast for hypermiling, I don't see where that's true with a DSG in manual mode.

I don't think we'll EVER give up manual shift control for performance driving... but you can manually shift a DSG...

 

True...I was looking at the discussion from an automatic-only perspective. If some manual function is there that changes things.

 

My left foot would go numb and fall off!!!!!!! When the foot goes, can the brain be far behind???????

 

Even if the technology makes it more advanced and efficient demand will drive that decision. Most sport oriented cars will have a higher demand for a manual transmission.

 

I know that the new automatics are faster and better, but they are just another step to disconnect you from the car. I love the feeling of operating a machine. I like to drive my Classic Mini the most because I can feel the exactly what the car is doing. The gearshift is connected to the transmission with a steel rod to where I can feel the gears move through my hand, not just some cable clicking the gears around. No power steering, no electronic throttle removing me from what the car is doing. I love my new MINI, and it is a blast to drive, but I am so much more removed from the machine that the old one.

If I don't want to feel or have anything to do with the car that is getting me from point A to point B, I'll just take the bus.

 

i will drive a stickshift until i die, and i'm 18. all that paddle and automatic crap doesn't take skill to drive. i just hope they have manual transmissions when i'm around 65. i hope.

 

they will!. like I said, the AT is here from long long time ago. Maybe one day will be different, and the option will be the MT so we will have to pay extra for that.

but the feeling of the MT will never be the same with AT, no matter how good they are, it is just different

 

Oh darn. I've just been called skillless by an 18 year old. I'm heartbroken.

FWIW... when I was 18 I said EXACTLY the same thing. that was 23 years ago. I have a slightly different perspective now.