I've added the main topics of discussion to this first post. Note: This might get deep.

1.At what point did your MINI come into being? Like, people refer to thier MINI's birthday. But does it become a MINI at the first weld? When the body work is all in? When it's painted? Or when then engine is installed, started? Or maybe some point in between. What is everyone's opinion on this? I'm not even sure of this myself, but I thought it would make a good discussion.

2.Is your MINI the same car it was when you bought it? If you change a part, is it any less that same car? If you keep changing parts, at what point does it become a new car, i.e. not the same one that was built orginally? You still own it, but it is not the same. My car only has 3 origonal body panels left (the passenger door, the panel in front of that, and the windshield wiper panel) This problem bothers me sometimes. Anyone familiar with philosophy will recognise this as the Ship of Theasies problem, or something like that.

3.Do you feel your car has a soul? If so, wherein does it reside? The computer? The engine? Or is it the sum of its parts like some sort of ghost in the machine?

 

Life begins at birth! What I mean by that is I consider the purchase date to be my MINI's birthday, even though he already had miles on it (purchased off the lot) and his production month was about two months before the purchase date.

 

Well religion would say at inception, i.e. the first weld...law, in most states would say the 3rd trimester...therefore somewhere around all the body work...but I guess many would exclaim that it would be when a 'soul' arrives...that would be the driver...

 

The day you drive it off the lot. That's the day that all your coverages expire (miles withstanding).

EDIT: This thread is a'headin' for a'lockin'. Careful.

 

I wasn't trying to raise any bad issues...

Here, we can change it:
Is your MINI the same car it was when you bought it? If you change a part, is it any less that same car? If you keep changing parts, at what point does it become a new car, i.e. not the same one that was built orginally? You still own it, but it is not the same. My car only has 3 origonal body panels left (the passenger door, the panel in front of that, and the windshield wiper panel) This problem bothers me sometimes. Anyone familiar with philosophy will recognise this as the Ship of Theasies problem, or something like that.

 

why is this thread heading for a lock?

Same here, all in the proper use of thought...I would say your car is the same car no matter how much you change it...Im sure that no one will achieve changing everything...but in the event that someone proves me wrong...at some point some part spent time with an origonal and therefore gave that part the same status...In our world though, a new owner is what always changes the car, name, lifespan, style...maybe even sex...

 

1st Trimeseter
Religion withstanding, I believe my MINI's life began when I logged into MINIUSA and started designing.

2nd Trimester
The assembly line.

3rd Trimeseter
The voyage to your local dealer.

Delivery / DOB
Waiting patiently in the show room...when you find out if the MINI is a boy or a girl.

I hope this thread doesn't get canned. It's a fun discussion, similar to the thread regarding sex of the MINI and process of naming your baby.

Great Idea nabeshin!

 

Perhaps you can make the metaphor that your MINI has shed its baby fat (stock features) and has turned into a teenager by way of experimentation (mods). It will then peak into an adult (when you have decided that no more work is required). Then as it ages, there will be signs of old age; rust, performance, etc.

Then there is this whole thing with plastic surgery, botox, or a lift, rather than a lowering to try to look and feel young again...HAHA!!

Finally, they retire to a nice heated garage and go out a few times a week, weather permitting of course. From here they watch the next generation MINI's.

I really like this thread!!!

 

When a soon-to-be motorer and MA love each other very much...

 

Like Grandpa's axe (on its 5th handle and its 3rd head), it is more a process than the pieces of material that make it up. Many historic ships (Charles W. Morgan at Mystic Seaport and Constitution in Baltimore) are less than 20% original.

 

I like where this is going.

I guess using the term lifecycles does apply for cars.

That is a good point, being a process of change. It could be looked at like this: As long as Mayumi's main shell remains, she is still Mayumi. If all of the rest is changed, that shell stays the same. Swap the engine, and it becomes Mayumi's new engine; instantaniously assimilated, while at the same time the engine removed becomes Mayumi's old engine. The car stays Mayumi, and continues to exist.

It is a good thing car's don't have souls, it will be hard to deturmine where that soul resides inside the car. The computer? The engine? A sum of its parts like some sort of ghost in the machine?

 

MY Mini came into being, when it was first conceived in my mind, that I wanted one!

 

Well, first the MINI is born when it pops out of the factory, first welds mean nothing, it's the leaving of the factory(womb), that's the moment it enters the world. From there it just is what it is.

 

My MINI came "into being" I think the first time I walked into the garage and sang out loud, "It's Max! The super wonder car!"
I may be a little off my rocker, but when my car had it's own theme song- that's the moment I would say it became my soul car, if that makes sense.

 

I don't know how each MINI is concieved, but they are assembled in a big womb, then birthed through the roll-up door at the end of the assembly line. The maternity ward is the showroom. The doctor is the service advisor. Your insurance and warrantee is the health insurance. Track days and autocrossing is the schooling.

I never thought of of my car this way.

 

I think of delivery day as the birthday and the entire trip through the factory, across the ocean, through the VDC, to the dealer as the birth process. Delivery day is the day you can finally hold your MINI in your arms, smother it in little kisses, caress it's cute little contours, and sing it lullabies. Not that I actually did any of that, of course.

 

I always thought Sgt Pepper was conceived on my birthday 11/10, but was not born till 12/22, when I picked him up at the hospital (dealer). He was not preemie or weak at birth, but the nature of the cabrio required I get him some braces (M7) so he wouldn't flex too much and need new shoes too often. I like the discussion of the "soul" of the MINI. Seems to me its the total package. There are faster cars, better handling, more aerodynamic, but they are all speciality cars that cost much more and don't usually have the total package appeal of the MINI.

 

Well you know, as an analogy, where is the human soul?

I would say the soul is the embodiment of something beyond physical things. I don't think if someone took all the pieces that make my car, put them together, and gave it to me, it'd feel the same.

But that's just me. Maybe I need less o' that reefer though...

 

I think it would be the first time the key was twisted and the engine came to life. Seems like the logical point to me. Breathing on its own for the first time.

Insert your own "crying" and "leaking fluids" analogies if you wish.

 

I actually think of a MINI more as a puppy...playful, eager to please, a loyal friend, but still with a slightly wild side that must be respected. The driver and the MINI enter into a dialogue when motoring, each responding to each other as the road/journey dictates. The MINI carries the imprint of it's owner, too, as the ECU is trained by the owner's driving preferences. I'd submit that it's here...the ECU...that the actual soul of an individual MINI resides.

 

Love this thread!!

I consider my Stella's birthday to be April 7th (yay she's going to be 2 years old next week!!). This is because I was able to sit in her as soon as she arrived on my dealer's lot, before they took all the stickers from the voyage over, and a week before delivery. While sitting in her, I found a computer printout under the driver's seat which had build date AND TIME, production number, and all sorts of goodies. Not sure what they consider to be build date as it's more than a 24-hour process, but I've taken April 7th to be her birthday.

Then May 24 is our anniversary since that's the day I took delivery :D

What a great thread <3

 

This is my philosophy, too.

 

I love my car, but this thread is more than a little creepy.

 

That is a good analogy.


I'm going to have to say, that if my car were taken appart down to the last bolt, then reassembled, it would still be the same and have the same feel.

Now, if I was given another MINI that was assembled from spare bits and had all the same mods as mine when complete, it would not feel the same to me, despite being identical. However, changing the steering wheel, seat, and shift *** to my original ones would almost entirely convince my subconscious. But I'd still know it wasn't Mayumi.


First start up does indeed seem like the first moment of real world life.

This thread has really done better than I thought it would.

 

to ask the best questions out there....

It is OK to stop building a Mini in the third trimester if it's got serious internal problems?

Can politicians mandate that a Mini stuck part way out the delvery bay mandate that the car be sent to the loading dock even if serious harm could come to the factory?

The really good questions are nearly endless. The touchy feely stuff doesn't do much for me. But then again, I have an 02 with 93k miles and still no name for it, other than "the Mini" (used to differentiat between it, "the MDX", "the Mustang" and "the Fiat"). I guess I just have no soul.

Another question, can agnostics or athiests enjoy the car as much as those that anthropomorphise the cars and postulate that they posses soul, or are agnostics and athiests damned to partial enjoyment and no ascention into automotive heaven?



Matt