http://www.motoringfile.com/2008/02/...-info-released

OK reading the above article and looking at MINIUSA, I guess you can say that with Stage II you do not have to add the “sport” package, right? (Except for stripes)

I am also not taking in account all the other things that

Sport Package includes:

• DSC
• Sport suspension
• stripes
• wheels

The JCW Stage II (as it pretants to the sport package) includes

• The MINI John Cooper Works and MINI John Cooper Works Clubman are fitted with sporty suspension settings as standard
• In addition to sporty suspension settings and powerful brakes, the MINI John Cooper Works and MINI John Cooper Works Clubman also have sophisticated driving stability systems. Their standard equipment includes ABS, EBD (Electronic Brakeforce Distribution), CBC (Cornering Brake Control) and DSC (Dynamic Stability Control) including hill-start assistance and DTC (Dynamic Traction Control).
• JCW “Challenge Spoke” light weight alloy wheels (21 lbs)

With all that being said:

JCW Stage II is $28550

Destination - $650
Paint - $500
Premium package - $1500
Convenience package - $1500
JCW Aero - $1595
JCW Sport Suspension - $1295
Sport Stripe - $85

So that would be – $35,675

Does all that sound correct????

 

Remember that the MSRP prices of the JCW aero kit and the JCW suspension don't include painting (for the aero kit) and installation costs. So add a few more thousand to your total price and you are close to $40K !!

 

If you and I are correct in our math. I can get a 135i for less the 40K.

 

http://www.motoringfile.com/2008/02/...info-released/

The way I read it, the suspension options are the same as before.

Base: sporty suspension settings
Sport: a sports chassis with harder damper characteristics and stronger stabilisers
JCW: John Cooper Works chassis

 

Sure you can, but not one with every factory and custom tuning option available. The 135i is more than the MCS by about $8-10k (I think they're about $30-32 to start with). If you start modding the BMW with custom aero kits/paint, engine tuning stuff, suspension mods, wheels/tires and packages it'll get to $50k before you know it. Buy the strippy and you'll get outta there for 35k. It's amazing how much you can spend on car options. The new 'Vette charges almost $9k for upgraded stereo (6 speakers--WOW!) and leather seats and a garage door opener and some other crap. I was appalled at what they charged. The same stuff on a Mini was way less than half, and Mini stuff ain't exactly cheap IMO. I guess if you can afford the Tommy Bahama shirts and you gotta have that Vette like your dad did you can bend over and take it like a man!

 

A lot of that going 'round. But as TheBigNewt implied, compare apples to apples...eventually there will be a performance version of the 135i (either an 'M' or a 'tii' like the concept that has been on the auto show circuit), along with dealer installed goodies like body kits, suspensions, etc., which drive the price towards $50k...at which point base price for the new M3 is only a few thousand more. It's a slippery slope.

 

If you buy a JCW MINI (the top of the line MINI--lets compare apples to apples; if you want to compare a stock MCS, you need to look more at the 128) and mod the heck out of it, you can hit 40 grand very, very quickly.

You can spec a 135i fairly nicely for 38-39K--that includes sportpack, stereo, etc (sunroof is standard). About the only thing it needs on top of that is supension work (Engine and brakes are both good as is--at least to start with). So you can come very close to a fully loaded JCW MCS--probably under, if you add the JCW suspension and a few other JCW goodies. The 135i, as a drivers car considering its performance, is looking very, very good. So it depends on what you're after--wether you want a completely loaded JCW with all the creature comforts (the added weight of which will decrease performance), or go with a few less creature comforts and have the performance of the 135. For 40 grand, or low 40's, you can build a 135i that will not be that much worse a performer than a 53,000 (or higher, if you tick off some options) M3, and probably be more fun to drive.

There will be no tii version--that's already been confirmed. There won't be an M version either. Maybe there'll be some other variant, but forget about an M or tii repeat. It looks like BMW gave a nod to the dealer for performance upgrades to the stock 135i.

 

At 35 to 40k the JCW is a non starter with me. For the same money I will have to shop else where when and if I need a thrilling ride. I'll have to look at Japanese cars to fill the void left when I part with my JCW. I'm already eyeing an Evo or STI, same price but way more performance. It's all about bang for the buck, JCWs will not have it IMO.

 

Jeez, people keep comparing the MCS to the 135i, and I don't get it.

Look, I paid 28k for my MINI, which is a crap load of money for a small car IMO. I could have gotten a lot of different cars for 28 grand. Start looking used, and the options are almost endless. But I WANTED A MINI. Period. So if you want a MINI, buy a MINI, and shut up about how much they cost. They're worth every penny.

But if all you're gonna do is think about what you "could have had" for the money you spent on a MINI, then you don't get what these cars are all about. Go buy your 135i and join the BMW forum.

 

I configured the 135i, with all the options I want and it come to 37575. Which includes aero kit, upgraded brakes, upgraded supension, twin turbo, etc. Plus witht he 135i, you get 4 year all your maintance included.

I am really struggling with this decision. Its down these two cars.

I've own both a MINI and a BMW in the past, I loved both. BTW: I am a member of the BMW forum but I choose to talk about this with you guys because like you so much more. LOL

 

Here we go again. Comparing a base model $35-40k Evo, STI, or 135i to a loaded Mini JCW is comparing apples and oranges. If you want to spend $40k on a really fast car, that's great...but the JCW is not the right car for you.

However, for $30k, you can't buy an Evo, STI, or 135i. You're looking at a loaded WRX, GTI, Mazdaspeed 3, base 128i, R32, etc.

 

You wanted a MINI. That's great, but for people who want a MINI, and a car with outstanding performance, how much they cost DOES enter into it, when you get into the $40,000 range. If you're not worried about performance, than cost becomes less of an issue with regard to bang for your buck. You're at 28,000--not that unreasonable for what you got. But you're looking at a significant bump in performance at 40,000, considering the available options, and that's the rub. If a 40,000 MINI performed like a 135i at the same price, the argument would be mute. But it doesn't, and its a hard price to swallow. I'd settle for a MINI at the GP price point, biased toward performance--maybe we'll see one at the end of the R56 cycle.

There are many factors here--many of which come down to the fact that we all were hoping for a bit more out of the Stage II JCW, and unfortunately its a bit of a let down. I expected more, and I would have been all over one if it was more GP like. Now, I'll wait and see if there will be a more performance biased R56 near the end of the cycle, or consider a 135i.

The 135i appeals to JCW lurkers for similar reasons--its a wolf in sheep's clothing. The 135i doesn't have the MINI's personality, but oh the potential performance....I perfectly understand how someone would seriously cross shop these.

 

The GP was $31-32k in 2006 dollars. The JCW will be $28-29k in 2009 dollars.

 

I fully expected the Stage II to inlcude the aero kit, I mean every picture we saw had it. Now if that was included with the kit then we are talking 35k. Which is a price I would be more then willing to pay for a mini but to push the price over 40k, then yes I would much rather buy something else.

 

The dealer installed stage 1 JCW kit makes the R56 faster than the GP, so the stage 2 is gonna make the GP look like a sleeping dog. How much more performance could you possibly expect from the factory out of this little turbocharged 1.6 liter 4 banger???

 

Yep, for those of us that want a mini and a mini only, the "I could have gotten this car for that much" kind of logic just does not come into play.

 

im goin to save up for it. looks like a ba$$ mini to me and i would love to have one.

 

Where do you get the idea that stage 1 spanks the GP--0-60, maybe the R56 wins--maybe--but not on the track. Not a chance. And the MINI has never been about 0-60 times anyway. The GP is lighter, stiffer, and has a much better, tighter suspension, and although it has less torque, it still has more HP. You're confusing performance with torque only. Thats a part of it, but only a part of it.

Its not so much the engine--although I suspect there is more to get out of it, but the overall performance. A stage I JCW, without a few other tweaks, is not as balanced a performer as the GP. A stage I JCW with a suspension upgrade, however, is a reasonably priced beast--and will be faster on the track than a Stage II JCW.

The stage II alone will not make the GP look like a standing dog on the track. And the 0-60 times of the stage two that BMW have quoted--6.5 seconds I believe--is hardly GP killing. I suspect the true 0-60 is much quicker in real life; time will tell what the truth is. But the truth is 0-60 is probably one of the most overrated (and useless) indicators of a car's performance.

With the Stage II, I really wanted a package more balanced for overall performance. I want to like this car--I really do; I prefer the aesthetics of the MINI over the 135i. I hope this isn't the end of the R56 JCW; maybe we'll see something special for the 50th anniversary, or an end of the line GP variant. I'm in no hurry to get out of my JCW R53 anyway, and I'd love to stay with a MINI, but I can't help but think something has been lost with the R56--it was mine (and many others) hopes that the Stage II JCW would address this, but at least on paper, it hasn't.

 

Would you pay $50,000 for a MINI? The MINI hit your price point for what you were willing to pay, and that's fine. I overpaid for mine to a degree, and I'm ok with that. But please don't be so close minded to the fact that where MINI is pricing the stage II JCW, there are other outstanding options, especially when performance is taken into consideration. Maybe $50,000 would be too high for you, but for others, looking more for performance over personality, $40,000, or even $30,000 may be the limit. So that logic DOES come into play; although it might not apply to you, there are others that it most certainly does.

 

You can get a S model for ~23,000 out the door.

Use that if you want to compare prices.

If you want to get 12,000 in accessories, then be sure to add 12k to whatever else you are looking at.

 

An S, yes, but we're talking JCW. An S is a much better bargain--no argument there, but the stage II JCW is a little different. If you're looking at the S, its a totally different beast with regard to price and performance, but the bang for the buck is certainly better.

But you can't just add 12,000 to what you're looking at--for example, the 135i comes standard with a sunroof, a very good set of brakes, decent suspension, etc., so many of the things you'd need to add on to a MINI are standard on the 135i.

I'll try to explain myself better. I absolutely love my R53 JCW. I'm not looking to replace it right away, but I've got my eye out for my next car. I really want to stick with a MINI, but the current R56 JCW is not doing it for me--at least not yet. I like the 135i better than the R56, but not as much as my R53. I am hoping that MINI will put something out that will make me feel the way about my R53--I has hoping the stage II would do that, but it hasn't, at least from the initial reports (I'm not the only one that feels this way). Fortunately there is time, and down the road an R56 in a GP type of vein may find it way into the MINI lineup, and into my garage.

 

you are talking options. talk about base cars. sure the 135 has stuff the mini doesn't - and it's 15k more expensive - it should.

throw $1500 worth of parts from alta on a 22k S and you'll have a MINI that'll smoke a stage 2 jcw. hmm.. so 24k for a wicked MINI now.

oh yea, we aren't talking options.

 

I believe that the real rub is that the factory JCW was being hyped as a packaged car and when the details came out, it became apparent that you had a base car from which you could add whatever. The 135i comes fully equipped in terms of drivetrain and no more expensive. If you look at the EU options, they are all fluff, not stuff to make the car go faster.
I had hoped (as I guess some others had) that this would be a more track biased Mini...it can be still, but only with lots of aftermarket additions and and lots of $$ spent.
When a Mini costs as much as an Evo, STI or 135i and is quite slower, that is a hard pill to swallow for some of us.

 

Says who? The R56 JCW hasn't been built yet. You have nothing to base this statement on.

Dude, all we have on paper is the (typically factory conservative) 0-60 time.

 

I'm not all closed minded about the pricing here, in fact I completely agree with your post and I see how you could easily start to make comparisons, mini should try to be as competitve as possible with the pricing. It just doesn't enter into my mind, simply becuase I'm happy with my mini. Will I buy a stage 2 car? I don't know, maybe, but if I did I could easily keep the cost under 35k (paid 28k for my current) however, I find I'm currently more interested in modding my existing car, considering Alta is about a half hour drive from my house

My biggest gripe about the stage 2 car is the lack of a factory installed JCW suspension kit. So now I have to consider, is it worth it to have the dealer installed kit done? (it's 5 hours labor at my dealer) or put that aprox. 2 grand toward better aftermarket suspension upgrades. THEY NEED TO HAVE A MORE COMPLETE FACTORY PACKAGE AVAILABLE!!!!! one that includes the best sport tuned suspension they have to offer.