993 vs. MCS on track
2nd Gear
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by kaelaria
That Mini sounded like a weed whacker
I have tracked my MINI twice, once was in the rain and hardly counts. I can tell you from personal, limited, experience that it doesn't take much to pass or hold off a Carerra. My mods are limited and I was on the track with two 996's. I passed both of them, they never passed me. One of them did try and he ended up facing the wrong direction in the dirt and had to be towed out. Neither drive in the video was perfect-to say the least, but the MCS driver did seem slightly more refined. Also, I was on the straight behing a Subi STI, those have 300hp and it hardly pulled away from me at all. The Porsche is not a light car either. I'm just saying that the MCS doesn't have to be a 'beast' or 'monster' to pass and stay ahead of that Porsche. It only takes a slightly better driver to make a big difference.
1st Gear
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by biggripper
MINId1 & TXMinee. Thanks for chiming in. It is always good to have a little clarity from folks that were actually at the event. Great video.
I think I and everyone else would love to know how much money that guy has spent modding his MINI.
I think I and everyone else would love to know how much money that guy has spent modding his MINI.
As a DE Instructor, one of the lessons you tell students over and over and it applies to this video, is the amount of time it takes to get to the point of driving to this level. While to some these lines look confusing, both these guys have a lot of track time under their butts and know what they are doing. To be a fair critic of the driving here you who have to be just as experienced.
I know the Porsche driver fairly well and he has lots of time on this track. Also he is an instructor for a lot of groups.
Thread Starter
|
3rd Gear
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 247
Likes: 0
From: Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted by TonyB
erik, how about a link to the 993 message boards? It would be interesting to hear some of their commentary....
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...8&page=1&pp=15
"
Hey, this is Jason driver of the Mini. I must say George did a great job, It was definatelly a fun race. It was tough to get by, my whole plan from the start was to pressure him as much as possible to cause a mistake. In the end It paid off but it could have gone either way.
I must admit I made some mistakes too, we had trouble adjusting the mini and still had a little too much understeer (looks like i missed almost every apex by about two feet, woops hehe), also having a 993 in the mirror did not help.
The stability control for the Mini was disconected, It's impossible to be fast with it on as it induces massive understeer when at the limit.
The engine on the Mini is a stock Cooper S motor with a 10% smaller pulley and a different cam, open exhaust, so its nothing insane. About 200hp, but the car is light, I was surprized when i noticed i could keep up on the straights.
Overall it was a great race, and a pleasure racing with a 993 (my dream car)"
Not as modded as you think!
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,149
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by erik99
Here is the link:
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...8&page=1&pp=15
"
Hey, this is Jason driver of the Mini. I must say George did a great job, It was definatelly a fun race. It was tough to get by, my whole plan from the start was to pressure him as much as possible to cause a mistake. In the end It paid off but it could have gone either way.
I must admit I made some mistakes too, we had trouble adjusting the mini and still had a little too much understeer (looks like i missed almost every apex by about two feet, woops hehe), also having a 993 in the mirror did not help.
The stability control for the Mini was disconected, It's impossible to be fast with it on as it induces massive understeer when at the limit.
The engine on the Mini is a stock Cooper S motor with a 10% smaller pulley and a different cam, open exhaust, so its nothing insane. About 200hp, but the car is light, I was surprized when i noticed i could keep up on the straights.
Overall it was a great race, and a pleasure racing with a 993 (my dream car)"
Not as modded as you think!
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...8&page=1&pp=15
"
Hey, this is Jason driver of the Mini. I must say George did a great job, It was definatelly a fun race. It was tough to get by, my whole plan from the start was to pressure him as much as possible to cause a mistake. In the end It paid off but it could have gone either way.
I must admit I made some mistakes too, we had trouble adjusting the mini and still had a little too much understeer (looks like i missed almost every apex by about two feet, woops hehe), also having a 993 in the mirror did not help.
The stability control for the Mini was disconected, It's impossible to be fast with it on as it induces massive understeer when at the limit.
The engine on the Mini is a stock Cooper S motor with a 10% smaller pulley and a different cam, open exhaust, so its nothing insane. About 200hp, but the car is light, I was surprized when i noticed i could keep up on the straights.
Overall it was a great race, and a pleasure racing with a 993 (my dream car)"
Not as modded as you think!
Very cool and I did learn by watching. Thanks
Thanks for posting
1st Gear
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
From: McKinney, Tx (Dallas)
Defense vs. Offense
For those that noticed a difference in driving before and after by George...
When you are driving defensively and trying to keep a fairly equal car/driver from passing, you have one strategy and style. When you are the car trying to pass, you have a different style/strategy.
BTW, it is more difficult being the car in front as you have to watch where you are going, your mirrors and all around you. When you are the one following, you have just one place to look...
I was at this race also. If you notice on the first race lap, the Mini sounded really loud, it was because he was attempting a pass on the outside and was right next to him going through that left-hander.
Also, this track is extremely technical, lots of off camber turns that are also on camber at the very inside of the corner. This, in addition to driving defensively and therefore guarding the inside line, it appears like a lot of early apexing going on... That is racing.
When you are driving defensively and trying to keep a fairly equal car/driver from passing, you have one strategy and style. When you are the car trying to pass, you have a different style/strategy.
BTW, it is more difficult being the car in front as you have to watch where you are going, your mirrors and all around you. When you are the one following, you have just one place to look...
I was at this race also. If you notice on the first race lap, the Mini sounded really loud, it was because he was attempting a pass on the outside and was right next to him going through that left-hander.
Also, this track is extremely technical, lots of off camber turns that are also on camber at the very inside of the corner. This, in addition to driving defensively and therefore guarding the inside line, it appears like a lot of early apexing going on... That is racing.
Banned
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,848
Likes: 1
From: City of Angels, Cali
Originally Posted by TXMinee
Always fun to arm chair quarter back.
Having been at that this BMW DE/Race event as an instructor and knowing both drivers my opinion greatly differs from most. MiniD1 has it right.
What you were watching was racing at is best and both drivers are some of the best folks you could meet.
Having been at that this BMW DE/Race event as an instructor and knowing both drivers my opinion greatly differs from most. MiniD1 has it right.
What you were watching was racing at is best and both drivers are some of the best folks you could meet.
Neutral
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Where to begin? How about an introduction! I'm the driver of the red, white and blue E46 m3 (not E36 as identified elsewhere in this thread). The car is owned by Matt Groner and was prepared by his shop, Matthews Automotive. Matt was kind enough to allow me to drive his car in the non-points "fun" race at Motorsports Ranch on August 7th.
So that we're clear on context, let me re-iterate that this was a non-points "fun" race at the end of a BMWCCA Club Racing weekend that PCA was invited to attend. Aside from a bit of ego, there was absolutely nothing on the line between the BMW's and, as we race with different sanctioning bodies, absolutely nothing to win or lose between the BMW's and P-Cars. Further, every car on track had been pushed hard for 2 days prior to this race. Tires were worn, brake pads thin, and concentration levels of tired drivers were low. For that reason, the agression normally displayed by club racers was toned down somewhat. Why wreck a car for a nothing race at the end of a good weekend?
Given the context described above, George and Jason, drivers of the 993 and Mini respectively, drove an excellent race. It can be really difficult to remember that the stakes are low when "in the heat of battle" on the track. Both of them displayed precisely the racing etticuit we as club racers hope for.
The car I was in is significantly faster than both the mini and the 993, regardless of driver. In the first 3 laps I gapped them both by roughly 10 seconds. Even on the front straight I was unable to see them in my mirrors. In a points race I'd have maintained that gap and hoped for a yellow-flag free race. In a fun race, however, who want's to run around alone? On laps 4 and 5 I slowed down a bit and watched for them in my mirrors. On lap 7 I all but stopped and waited for them. To wit, here's a lap chart from mylaps.com:
So, contrary to the learned commentary here, I was not reeled in. I got bored and decided to play now-you-see-me-now-you-dont. I was able to do so without pushing the car at all. After the 1st corner of green flag racing, the car was never pushed to more than 1,000rpm below redline and I used 3rd, 4th, and 5th rather than 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. Overheating, which had plauged the car all weekend during points races, was never an issue during this race.
A few specific thoughts:
Based on your commentary in this thread, obviously you will not be the one taking him on track.
MCLeonard's reply is worth responding to...
2 factors at play here. 1st, the 993 is the absolute polar opposite of a Mini in terms of handling...front engine FWD and rear engine RWD demand completely different driving styles and often lines...the theoretical fast line is NEVER the ACTUAL fast line on a track. This is proven week in and week out at every level of racing.
2nd, part of racing is dancing in the other guy's mirrors when behind and driving defensively when in front. Making yourself dissapear from a leading car's mirrors a bit when you a) dont intend to pass at that moment, and b) know the other guy should be looking for you in his mirrors, is a very effective tactic because it costs the driver in front time he could be concentrating on driving his own car. The 993 did that well in one part of the track and not so well in the rest. (That sentence is purely my opinion, not a fact.)
Absolutely correct. George was not playing but he was also not driving as aggresively as he might in a race against a car in his class and in a non-"fun" race.
Why? This wasn't a DE. It was a race.
Notice that they catch the BMW with the MINI in front, but it lost the Porsche guy before that. It seems the Porsche guy was holding up the MINI. [/QUOTE] See my lapchart above. The laptimes run by the 993 and the Mini did not change significantly with the Mini up front.
We all look less tentative when we don't have someone hounding our quarter panels. The 993 driver was working hard to, and did an excellent job of, providing racing room to the Mini. Had he been so inclined, the 993 could have blocked the hell out of the Mini, insuring he'd never get by.
You weren't instructing in this car, were you?:
(I spun this car into the weeds during one of the DE sessions. 100% driver error. =( No, my sh*t stinks just like everyone else's.)
Sorry to dissapoint. We'll try harder next time.
This has to be the most schizo post I've read in a long time. Which is it, the mini is a great car, or is the driver? Answer: in the beginner, and to a smaller extent in the faster DE run groups, it's ALL driver. I've had students in spec miata's that passed Vipers, Corvettes, and Lamborginis. At the speed and experience level George and Jason are at, things come down to much more subtle differences...and the raw speed of the car. George is a better driver than I am, yet I gapped him considerably in just 3 laps...because I was in a car capable of laps 3 seconds faster than his.
So, as we say down here in the bible belt...Y'all take it to the track now, ya' hear!
So that we're clear on context, let me re-iterate that this was a non-points "fun" race at the end of a BMWCCA Club Racing weekend that PCA was invited to attend. Aside from a bit of ego, there was absolutely nothing on the line between the BMW's and, as we race with different sanctioning bodies, absolutely nothing to win or lose between the BMW's and P-Cars. Further, every car on track had been pushed hard for 2 days prior to this race. Tires were worn, brake pads thin, and concentration levels of tired drivers were low. For that reason, the agression normally displayed by club racers was toned down somewhat. Why wreck a car for a nothing race at the end of a good weekend?
Given the context described above, George and Jason, drivers of the 993 and Mini respectively, drove an excellent race. It can be really difficult to remember that the stakes are low when "in the heat of battle" on the track. Both of them displayed precisely the racing etticuit we as club racers hope for.
The car I was in is significantly faster than both the mini and the 993, regardless of driver. In the first 3 laps I gapped them both by roughly 10 seconds. Even on the front straight I was unable to see them in my mirrors. In a points race I'd have maintained that gap and hoped for a yellow-flag free race. In a fun race, however, who want's to run around alone? On laps 4 and 5 I slowed down a bit and watched for them in my mirrors. On lap 7 I all but stopped and waited for them. To wit, here's a lap chart from mylaps.com:
So, contrary to the learned commentary here, I was not reeled in. I got bored and decided to play now-you-see-me-now-you-dont. I was able to do so without pushing the car at all. After the 1st corner of green flag racing, the car was never pushed to more than 1,000rpm below redline and I used 3rd, 4th, and 5th rather than 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. Overheating, which had plauged the car all weekend during points races, was never an issue during this race.
A few specific thoughts:
Originally Posted by camelpilot
someone who knows their MINI stuff needs to take you on the track.
MCLeonard's reply is worth responding to...
Originally Posted by MCLeonard
Cool video. Good driving by the MINI guy. It did look like the Porsche guy was turning too soon and scrubbing speed while running wide.
2nd, part of racing is dancing in the other guy's mirrors when behind and driving defensively when in front. Making yourself dissapear from a leading car's mirrors a bit when you a) dont intend to pass at that moment, and b) know the other guy should be looking for you in his mirrors, is a very effective tactic because it costs the driver in front time he could be concentrating on driving his own car. The 993 did that well in one part of the track and not so well in the rest. (That sentence is purely my opinion, not a fact.)
Originally Posted by MCLeonard
I doubt that he was playing with MINI. He seemed to be trying too hard to stay in front and the MINI guy had to put the move on him underbraking.
Originally Posted by MCLeonard
The Porsche guy should have just let the MINI guy pass.
Notice that they catch the BMW with the MINI in front, but it lost the Porsche guy before that. It seems the Porsche guy was holding up the MINI. [/QUOTE] See my lapchart above. The laptimes run by the 993 and the Mini did not change significantly with the Mini up front.
Originally Posted by Krassanova
Sweet vid. I agree that it seemed that the 993 driver seemed tentative throughout the race but gained some confidence on the lines when the MINI appeared.
Originally Posted by MINId1
... i was instructing for the de and at grid during the race ...lots of interesting comments...all positive from the porsche gang....no mini bashing....IMHO the race line is a line completely different from the de line (pca, bmw or whoever)
(I spun this car into the weeds during one of the DE sessions. 100% driver error. =( No, my sh*t stinks just like everyone else's.)
Originally Posted by ariercetinberk
that is a nice video, although booth drivers are not proffesionals, still enjoyable experience.
Originally Posted by gregsminis
I couldn't agree more.
I have tracked my MINI twice, once was in the rain and hardly counts. I can tell you from personal, limited, experience that it doesn't take much to pass or hold off a Carerra. My mods are limited and I was on the track with two 996's. I passed both of them, they never passed me. One of them did try and he ended up facing the wrong direction in the dirt and had to be towed out. Neither drive in the video was perfect-to say the least, but the MCS driver did seem slightly more refined. Also, I was on the straight behing a Subi STI, those have 300hp and it hardly pulled away from me at all. The Porsche is not a light car either. I'm just saying that the MCS doesn't have to be a 'beast' or 'monster' to pass and stay ahead of that Porsche. It only takes a slightly better driver to make a big difference.
I have tracked my MINI twice, once was in the rain and hardly counts. I can tell you from personal, limited, experience that it doesn't take much to pass or hold off a Carerra. My mods are limited and I was on the track with two 996's. I passed both of them, they never passed me. One of them did try and he ended up facing the wrong direction in the dirt and had to be towed out. Neither drive in the video was perfect-to say the least, but the MCS driver did seem slightly more refined. Also, I was on the straight behing a Subi STI, those have 300hp and it hardly pulled away from me at all. The Porsche is not a light car either. I'm just saying that the MCS doesn't have to be a 'beast' or 'monster' to pass and stay ahead of that Porsche. It only takes a slightly better driver to make a big difference.
So, as we say down here in the bible belt...Y'all take it to the track now, ya' hear!
Last edited by dave; Aug 15, 2005 at 12:55 PM.
2nd Gear
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Note: This is not an attempt to preserve my self image, this is the internet!
DoubleD,
This is your first post, you don't have a MINI, you don't want a MINI. You come in here and bash everyone expecting a pat on the back, respect.
You call me a schizo? What I was trying to say was that the MINI is a great car. Although a race between a stock MINI vs a stock Carrera with equivalent drivers, the MINI would lose, but not by much. This is a forum for MINI enthusiasts, you clearly aren't. 
That leads me to ask, why the post? Go back to driving YOUR FRIEND'S M3.
DoubleD,
This is your first post, you don't have a MINI, you don't want a MINI. You come in here and bash everyone expecting a pat on the back, respect.
You call me a schizo? What I was trying to say was that the MINI is a great car. Although a race between a stock MINI vs a stock Carrera with equivalent drivers, the MINI would lose, but not by much. This is a forum for MINI enthusiasts, you clearly aren't. That leads me to ask, why the post? Go back to driving YOUR FRIEND'S M3.
This has to be the most schizo post I've read in a long time. Which is it, the mini is a great car, or is the driver? Answer: in the beginner, and to a smaller extent in the faster DE run groups, it's ALL driver. I've had students in spec miata's that passed Vipers, Corvettes, and Lamborginis. At the speed and experience level George and Jason are at, things come down to much more subtle differences...and the raw speed of the car. George is a better driver than I am, yet I gapped him considerably in just 3 laps...because I was in a car capable of laps 3 seconds faster than his.
3rd Gear
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 247
Likes: 1
Thanks doubleD for the reality check with these guys.
For the record: I have a MINI, I like it and think it's pretty quick.
The problem with the people on these boards is that they are either too much in love with their cars or have never driven a really fast car. That's when you get the comments like "someone who knows their MINI stuff needs to take you on the track."
Dont worry about it, it's just a little lack of driving / racing experiance.
We are not all sold out hard core MINI fans...
For the record: I have a MINI, I like it and think it's pretty quick.
The problem with the people on these boards is that they are either too much in love with their cars or have never driven a really fast car. That's when you get the comments like "someone who knows their MINI stuff needs to take you on the track."
Dont worry about it, it's just a little lack of driving / racing experiance.
We are not all sold out hard core MINI fans...
5th Gear
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 674
Likes: 0
From: hou,tx
If everyone is through flogging each other & their respective marquis, lets belittle british kompressor for misspelling experiEnce repeddidlie. Erik thanks for the vid. Next time the beer & chips are on me
. Erik thanks for the vid. Next time the beer & chips are on me
6th Gear
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,620
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by camelpilot
Oh geez, Josh, I should pull out my blow torch on you..... but I wont. I bet you are one of those people that don't like that kind of talk huh?
btw.. it's actually Gamer talk, not 17 year old talk. Not that there is anything wrong with being 17.
p.s. Now that I know it irritates you, I'll try not to use it as much.
btw.. it's actually Gamer talk, not 17 year old talk. Not that there is anything wrong with being 17.
p.s. Now that I know it irritates you, I'll try not to use it as much.
0|-| \/\/3££ 90 p\/\/|\| $0|\/|3ß0Ð¥ \/\/17|-| ¥0µ® £337$p34|{
translated for non-leeters
Oh well go PWN somebody with your Leetspeak
-Josh
The track humbles all talk...
The mini is a gas on a track, and easy to drive close to it's limits. Other cars with more power and good handling will eat it for lunch, if the drivers can tame the beasts!
For example, I can hammer the throttle at pretty much anytime in the Mini, and the worst that will happen is the inner tire will spin a bit. I do that in my Mustang, and I'm going backwards! So it takes a lot more work to drive the Mustang fast, but it can be driven fast, and the power used. But it can be scary learning the limits.....
I go to events where some surprising cars are driven. I almost couldn't get buy a 57 Alfa with a 1300 cc motor, guy was smoooooooth, and was passed IN TURNS by a 1970 Torino 429! I'm a beginner, but I passed C5 Corvettes, a passle of Porsches, Cobras and Mustangs new and old.....
Yeah, the Mini is fun written in capital letters, but it's by no means the best car in almost any single category. But before everyone calls me a heathen Mini hater, and that I should just go where anti Mini talk is tolerated because we all LOVE minis here, get a grip!
Thanks for the great description of what was up behind the video. For those that haven't driven technicall tracks, they have no idea of the challenge to go fast on one. Cool lap time display as well.
Matt
For example, I can hammer the throttle at pretty much anytime in the Mini, and the worst that will happen is the inner tire will spin a bit. I do that in my Mustang, and I'm going backwards! So it takes a lot more work to drive the Mustang fast, but it can be driven fast, and the power used. But it can be scary learning the limits.....
I go to events where some surprising cars are driven. I almost couldn't get buy a 57 Alfa with a 1300 cc motor, guy was smoooooooth, and was passed IN TURNS by a 1970 Torino 429! I'm a beginner, but I passed C5 Corvettes, a passle of Porsches, Cobras and Mustangs new and old.....
Yeah, the Mini is fun written in capital letters, but it's by no means the best car in almost any single category. But before everyone calls me a heathen Mini hater, and that I should just go where anti Mini talk is tolerated because we all LOVE minis here, get a grip!
Thanks for the great description of what was up behind the video. For those that haven't driven technicall tracks, they have no idea of the challenge to go fast on one. Cool lap time display as well.
Matt
3rd Gear
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 247
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by namwob
If everyone is through flogging each other & their respective marquis, lets belittle british kompressor for misspelling experiEnce repeddidlie. Erik thanks for the vid. Next time the beer & chips are on me
. Erik thanks for the vid. Next time the beer & chips are on me
4th Gear
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 321
Likes: 1
From: Flowery Branch , Georgia
Let me see if I got this right. My dream ride should not be any FUN to drive. Got it. Must be the best in every single catagory or FORGET 'BOUT IT. To maintain the maximum power of this vehicle and go the fastest it's gotta be hard to drive. Maximize the use of it's last and best mod...the REAR VIEW MIRROR...only one gear to worry about. That's got to be SCARY! Wouldn't want anyone to even think I LOVE my cart.
No thanks. I gotta grip alright...all nine fingers and both tumbs around the wheel of my BEAUTIFUL 05 JB MCS. God I LOVE this car
No thanks. I gotta grip alright...all nine fingers and both tumbs around the wheel of my BEAUTIFUL 05 JB MCS. God I LOVE this car
6th Gear
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,620
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Call
I gotta grip alright...all nine fingers and both tumbs around the wheel of my BEAUTIFUL 05 JB MCS. God I LOVE this car
9+2=11
holy CRAP! I wanna see your hands!
-Josh
Neutral
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by gregsminis
Note: This is not an attempt to preserve my self image, this is the internet!
DoubleD,
This is your first post, you don't have a MINI, you don't want a MINI. You come in here and bash everyone expecting a pat on the back, respect. You call me a schizo? What I was trying to say was that the MINI is a great car. Although a race between a stock MINI vs a stock Carrera with equivalent drivers, the MINI would lose, but not by much. This is a forum for MINI enthusiasts, you clearly aren't. That leads me to ask, why the post? Go back to driving YOUR FRIEND'S M3.
DoubleD,
This is your first post, you don't have a MINI, you don't want a MINI. You come in here and bash everyone expecting a pat on the back, respect.
You call me a schizo? What I was trying to say was that the MINI is a great car. Although a race between a stock MINI vs a stock Carrera with equivalent drivers, the MINI would lose, but not by much. This is a forum for MINI enthusiasts, you clearly aren't. That leads me to ask, why the post? Go back to driving YOUR FRIEND'S M3.No, I do not have a mini and no I do not want one. Please take carefull note of the fact that I have not spoken a single ill word about the Mini. Think it through for a moment and you might discover that there's a reason for that.
The reason for the post was to respond to some of the most ridiculous, uneducated, and demeaning posts I've seen in a while. George and Jason are both friends of mine and excellent drivers. I thought it was a shame that a bunch of know-it-all internet experts were talking trash about them and decided to set the record straight to the best of my limited ability.
And lastly, yes, the car was my friend's M3. I must say, it's awfully nice to have friends that will loan you a car for wheel to wheel racing. As for the implication that a friend's car is the only option I have...well...wrong again:
Me racing my car @ Texas World Speedway (Novemeber 04 and March 05)
Last edited by dave; Aug 22, 2005 at 06:45 AM.
5th Gear
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 683
Likes: 0
From: Arroyo Del Valle
Wow, so much drama! I figured we are on a MINI forum and somebody posts up a video of a MINI shoveling a Porsche and catching a BMW, so lets root for the MINI and knock on the other guys a little. If I had known that the "instructors" were going to invade our virtual sportsbar and school us I would have paid more attention. At least I don't feel so bad for holding on to my sterotypes of BMW drivers. 
Anyway thanks for the refresher. It has been a long time since I had rear drive, rear engine explained to me, when my father took me for my first ride in his 911S in 1966 and since I first saw Porsches racing other cars at the 24 Hours of the Nurburgring that same year. Now if you could explain those wing things on Jim Halls' Chaparral I would be really impressed. :smile:
Having been on the track with the MINI several times and seen other racing MINIs I have a pretty good idea of what they are all about. The reason I thought that the Porsche should let the MINI by is because the MINI was all over him and he was spending so much time looking over his shoulder and then changing his line. In the club that I race with blocking isn't allowed and that is what this looked like. I don't think a driver should have to be that defensive in a club race.
The reason I thought it was just a trackday is because both cars kept changing their lines midcorner and bobbling all over the place and the cars didn't seem to be fully race prepared, as is confirmed by the later pictures. Sorry if I didn't recognise your superior skill levels from this video. This weekend I am off the the Montery Historics, where my brother has raced everything from a Ford GT40 to a Porsche 908/3. I will pay attention and learn to pick out the good drivers better. Although having first developed an eye for driving skill while watching Niki Lauda come up through the ranks, when I worked on a documentry film crew following F1, I think I can safely say that you guys should not hold your breath.
Later it was mentioned that this was just an exibition race and only "egos" were at stake. Funny how the egos are the biggest at the lowest levels and reduce in proportion as skill level increases. Having met German BWM racing greats Hans Stuck and Joachim Mass, in the mid-seventies when they got in to F1, I can tell you that the egos at that level are well in check and they are were the nicest guys.
I noticed in the various posts that we have two explainations for the BMW being caught by the MINI, overheating and waiting up. I am not sure what the Porsche guys story was, but I think we have the start of a pretty good list here. 101 Excuses for why a MINI Beat Me.
So anyway thanks for filling us in guys. I am sure you are good racers and nice guys and everything, but this is the Internet, you have be expect all kinds people and comments and just go with it.
Anyway thanks for the refresher. It has been a long time since I had rear drive, rear engine explained to me, when my father took me for my first ride in his 911S in 1966 and since I first saw Porsches racing other cars at the 24 Hours of the Nurburgring that same year. Now if you could explain those wing things on Jim Halls' Chaparral I would be really impressed. :smile:
Having been on the track with the MINI several times and seen other racing MINIs I have a pretty good idea of what they are all about. The reason I thought that the Porsche should let the MINI by is because the MINI was all over him and he was spending so much time looking over his shoulder and then changing his line. In the club that I race with blocking isn't allowed and that is what this looked like. I don't think a driver should have to be that defensive in a club race.
The reason I thought it was just a trackday is because both cars kept changing their lines midcorner and bobbling all over the place and the cars didn't seem to be fully race prepared, as is confirmed by the later pictures. Sorry if I didn't recognise your superior skill levels from this video. This weekend I am off the the Montery Historics, where my brother has raced everything from a Ford GT40 to a Porsche 908/3. I will pay attention and learn to pick out the good drivers better. Although having first developed an eye for driving skill while watching Niki Lauda come up through the ranks, when I worked on a documentry film crew following F1, I think I can safely say that you guys should not hold your breath.
Later it was mentioned that this was just an exibition race and only "egos" were at stake. Funny how the egos are the biggest at the lowest levels and reduce in proportion as skill level increases. Having met German BWM racing greats Hans Stuck and Joachim Mass, in the mid-seventies when they got in to F1, I can tell you that the egos at that level are well in check and they are were the nicest guys.
I noticed in the various posts that we have two explainations for the BMW being caught by the MINI, overheating and waiting up. I am not sure what the Porsche guys story was, but I think we have the start of a pretty good list here. 101 Excuses for why a MINI Beat Me.
So anyway thanks for filling us in guys. I am sure you are good racers and nice guys and everything, but this is the Internet, you have be expect all kinds people and comments and just go with it.