I passed a Dodge Neon SRT-4 yesterday and it got me thinking... that's a much faster car, but it doesn't have that much more power than the basic modified MCS, why does it put up such good figures?

C&D posts a 0-60 time of 5.3 seconds and a 1/4 mile time of 13.9 with 230hp in a 3000lb car. For comparison they list 0-60 of 6.6 with a 1/4 mile time of 15.1 for the JCW. They list that as 200hp with the car weighing in at 2800 lbs.

Some quick math shows a hp/lb of 13.04 for the SRT-4 and 14:1 for the JCW, but that doesn't seem like enough to make it THAT much faster. To have the same hp/lb ratio you would only need 215hp (or a weight of 2600lbs with 200hp) in a MCS which I would guess many here have, so why are the performance figures so far off? The turbo shouldn't make power as well down low and they are both FWD...

Anyway, wondering if someone could shed some light on this.

 

Posted too quick I guess...

I think I might have hit on part of the answer on my own. I was checking whp dyno results available on the SRT-4 and it looks like it's making around 225 at the wheels. Most numbers I've seen for the JCW/Modded MCS is around 180whp. Sounds like Dodge might have been a tad conservative with their crank hp number.

So you would need a Mini with 210-220 or so --WHP-- to equal that performance. Checking the 1/4 mile time chart I didn't see any Mini's under 14 seconds that didn't have a turbo or nitros, so that must be pretty darn hard to achieve.

 

My friend's SRT-4 showed 215 whp on the dyno and he was a little ticked off because most of the stuff he read on the web stated 225 whp. So it would seem that the SRT-4 is just a tad underrated from the factory.

 

one word. Turbo.

Put it in any Piece of Crap, and watch pig sheeet fly.

 

I've never seen a pig with a turbo in it. Maybe, that's why SPAM is so tasty.

 

Spiral cut hams are just pigs that ate turbos.

 

Or else, the tranny in the dodge causes less power than the getrag in the MINI. IIRC even with the turbo the SRT-4 makes gobs of torque down low.

Steve

 

Andy,

Are you sure that they aren't from turbos that ate pigs?


Another reason for the SRT4 outting down good #'s is due to the factory Quaife

 

It's the "area under the curve" that matters. Less peak, but a wider powerband, can do as well or better than higher peak, less wide power band. You can't really tell just quoteing peak HP numbers.....

Matt

 

True, but that SRT-4 has a helluva powerband.

 

But isn't power, power? What gives the turbo the edge over the SC in pure acceleration? I understand that the Mini would be quicker on the track (well, depends on the track I guess) with equal drivers.

I've had several fun canyon runs recently and it's really amazing at how good the Mini will stick with faster cars. I think it really irks them too, but no one has left me in the twisties yet!

How accurate is the Gtech? I used a friends older unit and it gave me a lateral G number of 1.06 once! It seems like very few cars can manage over 1g, so it seems like it has to be a little off. Tested it on a friends Lexus (a sporty model) and got .88g which matches what you would expect.

I don't drag race because I can never get a really quick start in 1st, but my car seems pretty quick outside that. It was just surprising how much faster another FWD car was, I always blamed the 0-60 on that.

 

Looking at that dyno chart shows a pretty dramatic difference in the torque. That's pretty impressive.

 

HP doesn't tell the whole store - the torque curve is what really makes or breaks it. Ours isn't that impressive, relatively speaking.

 

SRT-4 is a monster stock or mod they will smoke you!

 

Remember too, that a broad, flat torque plateau is very pleasant for daily driving but in drag racing, once you are rolling, you only use a small sliver of the powerband straddling the horsepower peak. In the MCS, once you're halfway through first gear, the revs never drop below 5k.

 

What did happen at 0-1.5 second? Is that when the clutch engaged?

 

Yep, that was me, slipping the clutch to hold rpm at about 2500 as I got rolling. I can probably get a better launch by going higher, but it's pretty easy to exceed the point of no return, where the tires just go up in smoke ... at least with my tires and the track surfaces I've tried.

 

Yeah... but come to my house 20 years from now. I'll still have my S, and no one will have a clue what a effing srt-4 is.

 

Pshht... 20? It is a Dodge ya know... wait 2-3 yrs and the trannys will all crap out I speak from too much experience.

 

You're right SRT-4 was not built to last, but it was built to be fast...If we are talking about power...I think stock or lightly mod MINIs will not have a chance to get them...unless you go twincharged!

Anyway, SRT-4 is not my cup of tea anyway.

 

Hey andy - what did you use to log and get that chart - I would really like to do that!

 

The SRT-4's engine has 50% more displacement than the MINI, so it can get more torque down low. I think that has a lot to do with it. It also just makes a lot more power - the newest ones are stated to have 230 hp (but dyno more). It also has the quaife. Last, it has Michelin Pilot Sports stock, which have a lot more grip than the stock runflats on the MINI.

I like the MINI a lot more, even if it does lose the 0-60 run. I can add power, but it's much more difficult to add style.

 

From what I've heard the G-tech device is really accurate. I've never actually seen one, so I don't know from experience.

Anyway, the SRT-4 also has a closer ratio transmission, I think. Our gearing is pretty long for a hot hatch. And don't forget tires, our runflats suck and that's what they're using on those tests

 

No replacement for displacement. I believe the newer SRTs run on BFG KDW II's.

Speaking of style, isn't the Neon getting nixed for a sport hatch of a different name....? The SRT-4's Neon days are numbered. Probably to re-release using Mitsu-esk components.

 

That would explain the shape.