As per my title:

I've been told by some that an upgraded intercooler will actually give better performance, even with just a stage 1 piggyback tune, because the piggyback unit senses heat and partially uses that data to adjusts boost. Is this true? (spirited street use only)

FWIW: I rarely go much past 5K rpm. I'm tuned primarily for lower-end torque.

ALSO FWIW: I already have the Dinan intake pipe, an an Eventuri cold air intake. (I know, I know, but it's sexy!)


Thx.

 

difficult to answer as I got my tune with “everything fitted” and I mean everything….so no incremental before and after
also full ecu out as 22 plate build, cost a lot to send to Finland even from the UK but it had to be done…

 

Anything you can do to reduce intake air temperature will help performance, tune or not. Since these engines are turbocharged, the only real way to reduce intake air temperature is with the addition of an intercooler. There are some different schools of thought as to which one is "Best", however. You have to balance heat rejection effectiveness with pressure drop. A proper performance intercooler will help at all stages of tune.

Personally, I think this one is the best you could go for, although they claim it won't fit JCW models:
https://www.airtecmotorsport.com/pro...o-series-black

 

Thanks, guys.

I also just found out that another advantage of a better intercooler is that they pass more air into the turbo. (Some designs being better than others, but pretty much all the good ones improve upon the stock unit. More air = more power. It's odd that this is rarely mentioned. This will probably be even more significant for me as I have the upgraded air intake path.

Sadly, I'm completely striking out on finding anything that will fit a post 2021 F57 JCW. There's literally nothing.
The only two that "almost" work are:Racing Dynamics part # 137 30 56 400

Forge "JCW F Series" unit.
Both fit JCW F57's, but only until 2020. Mini made some change in 2021 that conflicts.
I'm in the process of trying to find out what that change is, and if a good mechanic might be able to find away around it.

If both can somehow be made to fit, then I would go with the Racing Dynamics, as it's a Tube & Fin design. This is a better design for street use, whereas bar & plate is better for extremely high heat racing conditions, but less efficient at lower temps.

--------

Blue Al: I'm been considering buying my ecu a trip to Finland as well, but not sure the gains would be worth it.
All I have right now is the Dinan Sport Tuner, set to high. (which passes emissions, FWIW ! ) It's probably all I need, as it's geared towards low & mid rpm torque, and I rarely go past 5K.
Off topic, but do you think the full blown ecu tweak is worth it, just for street driving?

 

Another related question:

I read that the larger an intercooler's volume gets, then more throttle lag you will have.
(Though I suppose the internal design is also a factor. Maybe something to do with the pressure drop spec? )

The stock JCW has virtually NO lag that I can feel.
What intercoolers are you guys running, and did you notice any induced lag after installation?

 

Didn’t realize you had a 2021…

Here is a suggestion: Get an OBD app or scanner that will allow you to monitor intake air temperatures, then drive around and monitor or data log to see if you really need an intercooler. Give it some beans, and look for signs of heat soak. Take note of how long it takes for IATs to come down after flogging it.

 

Hey, Nik.

The scanner is a great idea in general and I'll probably do as you outline.

However, it's my understanding that an upgraded IC provides benfits even if you have no heat soak. Theoretically:Hot air loses density and, therefore, loses oxygen. A better IC thus provide the engine with cooler, more oxygen-rich air, and hence more power even with no heat soaking..

Cooler air also makes your engine more efficient, slightly increasing gas mileage.

The main concern is adding lag. I still don't understand this fully. I think it has to due with the pressure drop spec, yes?
For instance, one top ic claims a psi drop of -1. What exactly does that mean, or more importantly, how does that compare (numerically and lag-wise) to the stock JCW IC?

 

FWIW,
The Racing Dynamics part # 137 30 56 400 does NOT fit, post 2020. This has sadly been confirmed.

The only IC on the market that MIGHT fit is the Forge "Uprated" intercooler. (Not their JCW intercooler, which also only fits up to 2020 or 2021 models.)

Incredibly, Forge can't tell me for sure. They actually haven't tested them on post 2020 Minis !
This would be a "pays yer money and takes yer chance" type of situation.
Unbelievable ......

 

if it helps I have a forge fitted…will pm you a dyno chart over next few days “derv tech tune “ but I had a bucket load of mods before I drove it… than just added more…

 

Al, that sounds very promising. - But which car & year do you have?

My problem seems to be that it's an F57, though even LCI F56's have issues with most aftermarket IC's.

Supposedly it can be done if a good mechanic re-routs the radiator tubes, or something like that, but info is very scarce, not detailed, and not verified.
----------------

Regarding performance at all temps, I just got more verification of this from a Dinan tech. That's three high-end sources all saying the same thing. So yes, I would LOVE to see your dyno chart. (also your full build component list, though I suspect you are set up for occasional tracking. Still....)

Also, FWIW, that tech told me that my lowly Dinan Sport piggyback will NOT take into account the lower temps or extra oxygen. However a full ECU tune will.
With my current piggyback, I would still have a more efficient engine, but very little power gains. Finland it is. Time to crack open the piggybank and lose that piggyback.

 

hope these images help, unfortunately I got my intercooler second hand about 5 years ago, and it sat on my garage floor until last summer
Obviously manufactured before the facelift, so to my knowledge there hasn’t been any upgrades from forge since.

is it just a case that most Lc2 facelift cars will be still under warranty until last year so not that many will have been extensively modified
so not a case they won’t fit, but more that no one had actually tried ?

mine was April 2022 build, and used as carbon wurks shop/development car
last video, but there will be be 24 other proceeding ones that detail most of the build before I got it
I’ve since added, kw v3, the forge intercooler, the ecu holiday in Finland derv-tech roller/dyno tune, BBS RC wheels and other stuff I can’t remember

 

I have the Racing Dynamics 137 30 56 400 installed on my 2023 Cooper JCW. The only problem was two fins welded to front of cooler that had to be trimmed for bumper cover clearance.

 

Triman, that's great news, esp since that's the specific IC I really want. (Tube & Fin.)
Is yours an F56 or F57. (I'm not sure but it might matter.)

How did you solve this problem, just grind the fins down?
-------------------

## Also - Did you upgrade the charge & boost pipes? If so which ones fit?

 

Blue Al,

Thanks for all the details & photos. I can't believe you own a carbon wurks shop/development car. How bloody cool.

But of course this won't help me much, as yours was custom built to fit. I think Triman's solution should be the ticket. Fingers crossed.

 

My car is an F56 and I used original charge pipes. The fins I mentioned protrude forward, and I just kept cutting until the bumper cleared.
I believe these fins are just to direct the air flow. Sorry I never took photos of installation.

 

Folks, I don’t mean to hijack the thread… (but as they say, everything up to “but” is a lie, lol). What are people using for the pre LCI F56 JCW? I saw Gplus being recommended but for the life of me can’t find anything for the JCW. I don’t want to spend Forge money as I understand the cheap intercoolers made similar to the Wagner ones work just as well. Is there anything on Aliexpress that’s recommended bychance? I’m surprised Gplus doesn’t have an Ali store ..

 

jbourne,

If cost is an issue, then you want a tube&fin design. If this is for street use only, then you're golden as this design is best: Lighter, and has less pressure drop (less lag).
Bar&fin is more robust, and can handle higher heat, but is heavy & less efficient. Better for serious track tunes.

You can definitely use the Racing Dynamics listed above, and it's only $650.
Another is the Wagner JCW series, (unless you have an F67) - but it's MUCH more expensive, for some reason, even though tube & fin.

FWIW, I wouldn't trust Ali Express for anything this important. Buy from a US retailer.

 

Thanks. Some other threads discuss Gplus and Rev9 pretty favourably, and they have Amazon stores. Problem is I can’t find any JCW ICs on their sites … hence was considering Ali since I’m sure these manufacturers don’t manufacture in the US, but I can’t seem to find them. I guess RD is the next option, but it’s almost double what Rev9 used to cost and it’s a Wagner copy.

 

"I guess RD is the next option, but it’s almost double what Rev9 used to cost and it’s a Wagner copy."

It's not a Wagner copy. The Wagner is bar&plate.

As for the price, everything seems to have gone up around 25% since Trump started his insane tarriffs. - Just a fact.

 

Fun, new fact:

I've been on the fence since I still don't have any concrete confirmation that this will work on an F57.

However, I talked to my mechanic today, and he said that another advantage of an aluminum ic, over the stock steel one, is sound: He claims that aluminum transmits / amplifies the sound of the turbo much more than steel.

 

The OEM intercooler is aluminum and plastic...

 

Are you sure? My guy could be wrong, I guess.
I assume you're right, but when I have time I'll check with a magnet. (It's at the shop now, so not for a while..... )

 

Aluminum has much better heat transfer properties, so is used for things like intercoolers. Steel, not so much, plus the weight of steel over aluminum…

 

UPDATE AND GOOD NEWS !

For any F57 JCW owner following this thread, I have a confirmed solution.

So here's the deal: The facelift F57 JCW (and maybe even the earlier ones?) do NOT have the same ic as the F56 JCW. OEM is the much smaller F56 "S" ic.
i was pretty upset when I found this out. (To put it mildly.)

Looking for a solution, I ordered the racing Dynamics 137 30 56 400 that Triman used. Unfortunately, my mechanic said there was no chance whatsoever of making it fit, unless I wanted to completely rebuild / rework my car's front end. Turns out that the f57 doesn't just have more bracing, but also a different radiator, different fan, etc. Ughh.
The guys at racing Dynamics took a look at my mechanic's pictures and measurements, and sent me a smaller unit to try. That is their ic # 137 30 56 300. (And I have to say, the customer service at Racing Dynamics is amazing. They even shipped the replacement first, and paid for shipping of both units as well.)
My mechanic said this one will definitely fit, with some "minor' mods, like re-routing a hose, and so forth. SO THIS ONE WORKS.

However, while I was working that out, I also ordered an ic from Wagner that they said MIGHT fit. It is the Wagner #200001076. This ic is slightly smaller than the "good" racing dynamics ic abaove, but still MUCH larger that the OEM F57 JCW one. I can report that it is currently installed in my car, and looks like a factory fit. WooEEEEEE !!!
So there you have it. Two choices that will absolutely work. Just be prepared to do (or pay for) a bit of modification work. For track use, I'd probably go for the RD, and it costs less, to boot. For street use, I'm sure they both are more than anyone could ever need with a stage one tune.

FWIW, I will be selling the unused RD unit here.

 

Would the RD unit fit the F56 JCW pre-facelift? Or is this purely for F57 fitment? I still haven’t sorted out what to do with my F56 - somehow all the eBay ICs are for S only, nobody guarantees fitment for JCW because of the hose sizes.