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JCW GarageInterested in John Cooper Works (JCW) parts for your 2nd Generation MINI? This is where JCW upgrades and accessories for the MINI Clubman (R55), Cooper and Cooper S (R56), and Cabrio (R57) MINIs are discussed.
At first, I was about to start this thread under the 2nd gen sub-forum, till I realized there's a dedicated one here. So here it goes. I ll try to give as much info as possible.
R56 JCW (2009 model), 100% stock - all except brake hoses (Goodrich stainless steel). Bought from it's original owner at 38000km. Now at 68000km.
Before buying, car was checked at the local BWM authorized dealer - and was told it was all clear from every aspect.
Previous owner claimed that there are no issues with the car. He has been running the car on Torco SR-1 oil.
Last night, as I was looking around in here, I bumped on this N14 faq topic which I think is a real gem. As I was reading through, I realized that most of the issues listed there, also applied to what I ve experienced over the 5 years that I own the car. So, I am going to start with bullet point No3 from that list. Oil!
At first, I was struggling to get an accurate measure of the oil level. Judging by the numerous threads on this, I realized that other people found it a bit troublesome. Eventually, I started getting it right too. My readings now assume engine at an operational temperature (~30mins, depending on weather of course). Turn off engine, wait for 10mins for oil to 'sit' and then get a reading.
Now, according to the BMW mechanic, the oil level should be kept as close as possible to where the green arrow is (close to max, but not quite). Which takes quite an effort for me to maintain. Depending on the season / usage, I check the oil level on anything from 3 days to a weekly basis at worse. Sometimes I found that oil level was close to my expectation (based on usage, how I drove the car, how hot the weather was at the time etc). There were times that I totally misjudged it and found that oil level was in the middle (between min and max), without me pushing the car or running it on a hot day. Oil I use ever since I bought the car, was Amsoil European 5w30, which according to the specs seems to be superior to anything else I looked at for use in here, as a low-SAPS formula is recommended for use in Europe. Drain interval was every 6 months or 5000km (whichever came first). Oil filter is also changed at every oil change. The car has been on the track only once. On the road, my regular driving style is pretty mild, but there are times I will put my foot down. But not for prolonged period of time. Every time I start the engine, I would let it warm up properly (2 to 5mins, again, depending on weather) and never race the car before operational oil temp is reached.
Latest figure was ~770ml (of consumed oil) per 1000km. Which I think is over to what should be considered as normal fuel consumption - even for the N14 engine. Anyhow, I kept checking regularly and topping up as appropriate e.g. if the oil level was in the middle, I would add like 150-200ml to reach the 'green' zone. And so on.
Check engine (in regard to low oil pressure), came up once. That was during the very first days of having bought the car, and before I had the chance to change oil (my bad!). It happened whilst hard cornering. I stopped the car immediately, and checked the oil level which turned out to be half way from middle towards minimum! I never let it happen again, even though some wear may already took place but then.
Valve cover. This was never changed, so I presume I have one of the old, problematic ones with the bad PVC design that contributes in oil consumption. But judging from what I ve read in here, I seriously doubt that 770ml per 1000km can be attributed solely to that valve cover, right? According to my research, latest BMW part code for this is 11127646555 and it's made by Mafco (right?). I can find this for 200EUR. But is it worth it?
Carbon buildup. Could that be so bad after 68000km, as to justify the high oil consumption?
The BMW mechanic suggested that this could well be the pistons (!) need to be examined and/or even replaced! At 68000km? It's hard for me to believe that such wear could have possibly occurred at this mileage. And this is a job that would cost no less than 2500 to 3000EUR. Which I can't afford anyway..
As you might expect, I was somewhat frightened to hear such 'possible' scenarios to the point that made me reconsider if I really want to keep this car. I want something that is reliable and at least somewhat predictable. As a motoring enthusiast, I don't like to be in the situation where I m thinking of oil consumption every time I want to have some fun with the car. I am trying to think what my next steps should be. Should I change that valve cover and have a walnut decoke on that engine and hope for the best, or do you reckon there's a serious chance of a more serious issue going on here?
For the record, going back on that N14 faq - other things that needed replacement was the thermostat and wastegate.
p.s. (bonus query): how many liters of brake fluid do I need for a full flush? I m thinking of RBF660 (instead of the regular BMW DOT4). Not that I had any brake fatigue issues, but for the similar price, why not give it a try.
At first, I was about to start this thread under the 2nd gen sub-forum, till I realized there's a dedicated one here. So here it goes. I ll try to give as much info as possible.
R56 JCW (2009 model), 100% stock - all except brake hoses (Goodrich stainless steel). Bought from it's original owner at 38000km. Now at 68000km.
Before buying, car was checked at the local BWM authorized dealer - and was told it was all clear from every aspect.
Previous owner claimed that there are no issues with the car. He has been running the car on Torco SR-1 oil.
Last night, as I was looking around in here, I bumped on this N14 faq topic which I think is a real gem. As I was reading through, I realized that most of the issues listed there, also applied to what I ve experienced over the 5 years that I own the car. So, I am going to start with bullet point No3 from that list. Oil!
At first, I was struggling to get an accurate measure of the oil level. Judging by the numerous threads on this, I realized that other people found it a bit troublesome. Eventually, I started getting it right too. My readings now assume engine at an operational temperature (~30mins, depending on weather of course). Turn off engine, wait for 10mins for oil to 'sit' and then get a reading.
Now, according to the BMW mechanic, the oil level should be kept as close as possible to where the green arrow is (close to max, but not quite). Which takes quite an effort for me to maintain. Depending on the season / usage, I check the oil level on anything from 3 days to a weekly basis at worse. Sometimes I found that oil level was close to my expectation (based on usage, how I drove the car, how hot the weather was at the time etc). There were times that I totally misjudged it and found that oil level was in the middle (between min and max), without me pushing the car or running it on a hot day. Oil I use ever since I bought the car, was Amsoil European 5w30, which according to the specs seems to be superior to anything else I looked at for use in here, as a low-SAPS formula is recommended for use in Europe. Drain interval was every 6 months or 5000km (whichever came first). Oil filter is also changed at every oil change. The car has been on the track only once. On the road, my regular driving style is pretty mild, but there are times I will put my foot down. But not for prolonged period of time. Every time I start the engine, I would let it warm up properly (2 to 5mins, again, depending on weather) and never race the car before operational oil temp is reached.
Latest figure was ~770ml (of consumed oil) per 1000km. Which I think is over to what should be considered as normal fuel consumption - even for the N14 engine. Anyhow, I kept checking regularly and topping up as appropriate e.g. if the oil level was in the middle, I would add like 150-200ml to reach the 'green' zone. And so on.
Check engine (in regard to low oil pressure), came up once. That was during the very first days of having bought the car, and before I had the chance to change oil (my bad!). It happened whilst hard cornering. I stopped the car immediately, and checked the oil level which turned out to be half way from middle towards minimum! I never let it happen again, even though some wear may already took place but then.
Valve cover. This was never changed, so I presume I have one of the old, problematic ones with the bad PVC design that contributes in oil consumption. But judging from what I ve read in here, I seriously doubt that 770ml per 1000km can be attributed solely to that valve cover, right? According to my research, latest BMW part code for this is 11127646555 and it's made by Mafco (right?). I can find this for 200EUR. But is it worth it?
Carbon buildup. Could that be so bad after 68000km, as to justify the high oil consumption?
The BMW mechanic suggested that this could well be the pistons (!) need to be examined and/or even replaced! At 68000km? It's hard for me to believe that such wear could have possibly occurred at this mileage. And this is a job that would cost no less than 2500 to 3000EUR. Which I can't afford anyway..
As you might expect, I was somewhat frightened to hear such 'possible' scenarios to the point that made me reconsider if I really want to keep this car. I want something that is reliable and at least somewhat predictable. As a motoring enthusiast, I don't like to be in the situation where I m thinking of oil consumption every time I want to have some fun with the car. I am trying to think what my next steps should be. Should I change that valve cover and have a walnut decoke on that engine and hope for the best, or do you reckon there's a serious chance of a more serious issue going on here?
For the record, going back on that N14 faq - other things that needed replacement was the thermostat and wastegate.
p.s. (bonus query): how many liters of brake fluid do I need for a full flush? I m thinking of RBF660 (instead of the regular BMW DOT4). Not that I had any brake fatigue issues, but for the similar price, why not give it a try.
When you bought your Mini at 38K, have you seen a documented service record? Racing oil formulas are not the best for street use and need to be flushed very often. I read on this board that most do it at 2k. Also, make sure to use only the OEM oil filters.
I am also wondering why you want to put a lubricant that is not BMW approved in your brake line. Again, unless you are on the racetrack every week and don't need a reliable transportation, why searching for more trouble than you already have?
No, there's no service record (apart from the first few 'standard' checks carried out at the dealer). So, no further clues regarding drain intervals the previous owner might have adhered to..
I m not really concerned about the brake fluid at the moment. I mean there's nothing wrong by using RBF600 as long as it's changed every year. Main issue with the car is the oil consumption and what my next steps should be from now on. So please, l d like to hear any input on that instead.
In the meantime, I have done some background reading and I ve concluded on the following:
1) PVC. This has never being changed. Car model is 2009/01 so the PVC is at least that much old. PVC definitely contributes - to some extend - towards that oil consumption. And to carbon build up.
2) Carbon build up! At 68000km, there's no doubt it's full of charcoal in there. If carbon build up contributes towards increased oil consumption (for which I am not certain - can anyone comment on this?), then it's definitely something that needs to be addressed also.
3) 'Deeper' issues. Crankshaft seal, piston seals or anything else that requires properly opening up the engine, for me and for a car that's well under 100000km - is out of question. It ll require 4-digit numbers in just labor cost, which I cannot afford nor I consider reasonable for a car at this mileage. If it comes to have to pay such a price - then I d rather sell my car.
So, what next? I am willing to give it a final chance here. I can find the genuine latest engine cover (part no: 11127646555) for 'just' 200EUR.
Regarding carbon build-up, I have read positive feedback on Hydrogen carbon clean. There's a local garage that'll do that for just 50EUR. I won't be going the walnut blast method, as having read what I ve read, it doesn't worth the extra 200EUR+, as it won't offer 100% clean-up anyway. Most experts agree that there's no 100% proper engine clean-up technique, other than completely opening up the engine, taking everything out, cleaning and put back on. Based upon this argument, I d be willing to spend 50EUR for a closed-engine cleanup that will at least remove carbon to a certain degree. For example, if the walnut blast method can achieve up to 85% clean-up and the hydrogen one does up to 70%, I don't see a reason for paying $$$ extra and going the walnut way.
Based on that evidence and from previous experience on the N14 engine, do you think that just those two steps will help alleviate the oil consumption issue to a more reasonable level?
p.s. regarding the brake fluid - I ve read elsewhere that I need 1lt for a full flush - can anyone confirm this?
500ml DOT 4 is plenty to change out all fluid.
Oil consumption - I know you have been reading up, nobody can tell you specifically what is causing your usage. You already know that valve seals, pistons, PCV, turbo can all affect it. PCV will give you smokey exhaust and black tip deposits. Simple ellimination until you get to the bottom of it I am afraid. Not sure chucking money at parts without confirming a fault is of value (Valve cover for example).
At 68K you should also be looking at your timing chain.
Hyrdogen or any other in engine clean will not reach the valve stems on a direct injection engine.
Good luck in your quest and I hope it is a cheap fix.
Not sure chucking money at parts without confirming a fault is of value (Valve cover for example).
At 68K you should also be looking at your timing chain.
Problem is, if I m to delve deeper than just the valve cover, it would mean getting the engine all opened up. And if it comes to that, I d already have coughed up $$$$ just on labor costs.
And on a best case scenario, it could be a cheap part that needs replacing e.g. crankshaft seal.
But that's simply not normal for a conventional car such as my MINI. Like spending 2K on a 70000km interval...The alternative would be to just ignore the whole issue and just keep toping up with oil as required. But since I m a bit of a perfectionist, I can't really have that. I want to have the car in good working order and this is something I couldn't simply overlook!
As for checking on the timing chain, I m not really sure, I ll have to ask for a quote.
Problem is, if I m to delve deeper than just the valve cover, it would mean getting the engine all opened up. You can access the timing chain when you take off the valve cover, you'll need a new seal and some gasket sealant for the corners. Simple job you can do with a basic socket set. And if it comes to that, I d already have coughed up $$$$ just on labor costs. Compression test each cylinder to determine state of valves/guides.
And on a best case scenario, it could be a cheap part that needs replacing e.g. crankshaft seal.Crankshaft seal oil leak will be obvious, the left (as you face the car) side lower engine beneath the crankshaft pulley will be sprayed with oil as will the lower subframe legs and in the quantities you are losing there might be a puddle on the ground. At the other end of the crank, leaky seal will produce drips of oil from the hole where the engine joins the gearbox and a puddle.
But that's simply not normal for a conventional car such as my MINI. Like spending 2K on a 70000km interval...I am afraid to tell you that is the case for many, HPFP, thermostat housing, water pumps and timing chains, oil filter housing gasket all need attention around those miles unless you are very lucky. The alternative is to buy tools and a manual or borrow them and get stuck in. Mechanical work is only a mater of following instructions and taking your time (if you have it). Took me 5 days to do the timing chain, clutch and suspension bushes. It was not pleasant but saved an absolute fortune on a 2009, 46K mile engine. The alternative would be to just ignore the whole issue and just keep toping up with oil as required. But since I m a bit of a perfectionist, I can't really have that. I want to have the car in good working order and this is something I couldn't simply overlook! Agree 100%
As for checking on the timing chain, I m not really sure, I ll have to ask for a quote.You can diangose it yourself, do you have any kind of rattle from the left side of the engine on cold start lasting for a couple of minutes? No = all good, yes = timing chain bad.
worked for me(?) : I bought a 2012 JCW w/ N14.. i was 3rd owner, car had ~70k miles on it at purchase. I noticed a similar oil consumption and very dirty oil within 3k miles.. I moved to a 40 weight oil and started oil changes at 2k miles for the next 3 oil changes. Each time, the oil was drained, it was black and heavy with carbon/soot. After 3x changes/~6500 miles, the oil consumption was cut in half and by the 2k mile mark, my oil was no longer black as night any longer. While I do still have a small bit of consumption still (within 3k mi ~1/2 qt now), my oil is just dark brown/gold time of change now..leading me to believe Ive been able to remove/reduce as much of the internal carbon buildup as possible (without proper head/valve cleaning). I dont have any hesitation on throttle, or smoke out the tail pipe (yet) & plan on a walnut blast soon.
**just to add: if you are taking the JCW to the track there are a few other things to address for safety/longevity
*Use a 10w-40 for track days. Hot, high-rev, VVT & boost = needs better shear protection.. a 30 weight isnt sufficient and may cause oil pressure issues on hot days
*JCW front calipers have a polymer piston that can melt.. especially with your track pads and high temp fluid! You DO NOT want to lose front brakes on the track!
Sounds like youre on the right path with your parts search - always look for the latest BMW part#/rev# ..there has been a few updates to the valve cover, PCV, HPFP and Vanos solenoid.
Next to a compression test, you can have a cilinder leak test done to get some insight in the state of the piston rings.
Assuming you're located in Europe, you have easy access to PSA (Peugeot/Citroën) parts which are cheaper than Mini / BMW parts (HPFP, valve cover).
PSA sells the PCV valve seperately for 10 Euros or so. No need to replace the entIre cover if it's not cracked or warped).
worked for me(?) : I bought a 2012 JCW w/ N14.. i was 3rd owner, car had ~70k miles on it at purchase. I noticed a similar oil consumption and very dirty oil within 3k miles.. I moved to a 40 weight oil and started oil changes at 2k miles for the next 3 oil changes. Each time, the oil was drained, it was black and heavy with carbon/soot. After 3x changes/~6500 miles, the oil consumption was cut in half and by the 2k mile mark, my oil was no longer black as night any longer. While I do still have a small bit of consumption still (within 3k mi ~1/2 qt now), my oil is just dark brown/gold time of change now..leading me to believe Ive been able to remove/reduce as much of the internal carbon buildup as possible (without proper head/valve cleaning). I dont have any hesitation on throttle, or smoke out the tail pipe (yet) & plan on a walnut blast soon.
**just to add: if you are taking the JCW to the track there are a few other things to address for safety/longevity
*Use a 10w-40 for track days. Hot, high-rev, VVT & boost = needs better shear protection.. a 30 weight isnt sufficient and may cause oil pressure issues on hot days
*JCW front calipers have a polymer piston that can melt.. especially with your track pads and high temp fluid! You DO NOT want to lose front brakes on the track!
Sounds like youre on the right path with your parts search - always look for the latest BMW part#/rev# ..there has been a few updates to the valve cover, PCV, HPFP and Vanos solenoid.
What !!!!! JCW piston caliper "melting"? I would believe the standard brakes on any Cooper S would become weak on the track but when we pay big bucks for the JCW set - up, I am credulous it could ever happen. Please, be more explicit about your experience. You may have used the wrong lubricant that caused a problem.
@ dube53 - this is the exact reason why there are stainless steel front brake piston upgrade kits for the JCW brembos (ECS and others carry the kit)
This is hard to imagine plastic for Brembo brake pistons when we think we have the best for "safety and performance" but some reading proves you are right. I was not aware of that. Furthermore, $600.00 for metal replacement is horrendous over the cost of the JCW brake kit.
It makes we wonder at what interval these plastic pistons need to be replaced. Front pads and rotors have been replaced 5 months ago at 46K and the rear done just a few weeks ago.
I think for daily operation and hard driving, the OEM pistons are fine for the life of the vehicle. However track pads/rotors/fluid and use.. makes for much hotter temps. **You know, OEM JCW brakes can fetch a good price, maybe enough to cover a set of Willwoods
Cornjuice, you mentioned earlier you moved to a 40 weight oil (and did very short change intervals for first few times.
So far, I ve been using Amsoil European Car Formula 5W-30.
I m planning to switch to either 5W-40 Improved ESP or the 5W-40 Classic ESP (first one is a BMW LL-04 and the latter is an LL-01). So it would make more sense to use the Improved ESP one.
Just out of interest, which particular oil did you use?
Ive been running the Mobile1 Euro 0W-40 and noticed consumption went down immediately. Im considering moving to a 10W-40 or a 10W-50 though..my engine has 87k miles on it now, and ring/bearing tolerances change with age. I will compare any differences i see in my log data once I have a few thousand miles on the new oil.
**If youre not going by the ~+10k mile oil service intervals, recommended by the dealer.. you dont need to be concerned these specs for detergents and 'Long Life'. Start with a tier3 or above full synthetic in at least a 30 weight (if youre in a hot climate or modified to run more boost..you really should be running at least a 40 weight). If you want the extra most bestest.. a double ester full synthetic is about as good as it gets. Either way.. in my opinion; you should be changing oil before 5k miles though if you are driving an N14 regardless of what oil you use.
Cornjuice, you mentioned earlier you moved to a 40 weight oil (and did very short change intervals for first few times.
So far, I ve been using Amsoil European Car Formula 5W-30.
I m planning to switch to either 5W-40 Improved ESP or the 5W-40 Classic ESP (first one is a BMW LL-04 and the latter is an LL-01). So it would make more sense to use the Improved ESP one.
Just out of interest, which particular oil did you use?
I am amazed how some try to "mix" their own blends to make things better, or worse.
Just stay by OEM specs and don't waste your money on expensive racing oils that need to be drained too often unless you are on the tracks every weekend. Go with Castrol Edge 5W-30 Full Synthetic as recommended by Mini and make sure you stay at every 5K with OEM oil filters ( the most important) if you have an older engine. You will never have problems as far as lubrication.
Given current situation, I wouldn't dare trying any 0W40 on my N14.
Having said that, I won't be using racing oil either, as the car doesn't see any tracking (or at least *very* rarely). Also, from what I ve read, racing specific oils, despite offering higher protection during extreme loads, they don't have 'cleaning' properties to help reduce carbon build up.
Since I want to check if a 40 weight oil will help alleviate excessive oil consumption, I see nothing wrong with the Amsoil 5W40.
Even if I was to stick with 5W30, I think I d still pick Amsoil, as at least on paper (specsheet) they offer superior figures (e.g. shear) compared to most common ranges from Mobil, Shell and the recommended Castrol.
the only difference between a 0W and 5W is the zero flows better at cold temp.. it may contain friction modifiers vs the 5W or 10W of the same variety. Other than that.. there is no harm in using a 0/5/10W in any 30 or 40 weight.
*and if youre modified - there is no "wasting money" its called 'investment protection'.. and a 30weight oil simply does not have enough shear resistance to protect bearings under 20psi, high rev, high load. A 40 weight will resist shear better vs a 30.. this means you have happy bearings longer. Also - oil vaporization point is higher on 40 weights.. which helps reduce the carbon buildup issues in the N14. There are NO adverse effects running a 40weight oil.. none.
10-19-2018, 01:53 PM
