Thinking about launch control that give the auto a .2 second advantage over the 0-60 speed....but what is say the 20 - 80 mph times between the 2 transmissions. What about overtaking? Really the 0-60 times mean nothing in the real world. I remember years ago studying the Japanese motorcycle times way back then BMW did not even publish a 0-60 time!
I would argue that if you think 0-60 is important then you should buy another car. Why did BMW bother with launch control. Probably so they could sell more automatics in America. Interestingly 80% of all JCW's sold in the UK are sticks.

 

I agree! It had to be a manual, test drove the automatic. I hated the paddle shifters, the paddles get in the way on the steering wheel...for me. So I chose my F55 (w/ JCW packages) as a 6 speed, no issues overtaking

 

It also depends on the driver with the manual transmission. Plus, if the automatic driver thinks that he can out thin the transmission then the stick wins. The same with the fuel mileage. Use your torque at the lower speeds, and drive sense ably, under 75mph and I think it's either a wash, or slightly better with the stick. With my Gen ll I got 42 mpg on one tank in Texas on vacation once, use to average 38-40 most of the time on the highway. That 31 highway on the new JCW I think is hogwash. City if 24 should be s out right though. BMW/MINI likes go under rate both performance and economy figures remember.

 

Automatic is going to be quicker, if it really matters [which it likely doesn't].

The Manual will always be more fun, assuming you have 2 functioning legs, no disrespect to those otherwise.

 

I agree but do you think it is quicker once you are moving. That's where any test should start. Even race cars start the race while moving! I bet the standard is quicker overtaking or certainly no slower.


If they hooked the auto into the gps and could predict the road turns ahead then the automatic might be as quick but until then ....Bring on the twistys!!!

 

The only autos that are quicker are the serious dual clutch setups found in high end motors, anyone who thinks otherwise is plain wrong. Read car and driver, or any review for that matter, the reviews always say the manual has the edge in 0-60 and quarter miles.

 

You have to wonder why Indy Car, Formula 1 and so many top end exotics are automatics. It's not because they're less efficient.

 

Maybe less chance of a missed shift? Also can't they set the car up for different courses. At the Indy the other day and could not believe the electronics and transmitters. Baymotors mentioned the dual clutch autos. They are super quick.

 

Even if the auto is slightly quicker, it wont replace the fun of the manual. 6MT only for me. Just saying...

 

There's a reason pretty much every racecar uses paddle shifts; they're more consistent and quicker than row-your-own in *every* situation. Racing isn't about fun, it's about winning.

Top step on podium = automated shifting
Max fun in twisty roads in sports car = 3 pedal row-your-own.

 

As stated above, the exotics with loads of upgraded transmissions, some even with the dual clutches, yes are of course going to be faster. Sequential gears, blah blah blah.

The regular ford pos with an auto is another story. These don't have the same guts as stated above.

 

I agree with the consistent. A missed change could really mess things up. But isn't that what racing should be? I mean take it to the next level and it will be a "Google" racing car without a driver.
I say ban automatic gearboxes from racing.

 

Not sure on the MINI...
But even VW DSG tranny now beat the stick numbers on lower models, and similar stats on the conventional ones too....but you are driving a car to DRIVE, NOT RACE, so I doubt a few tenths of a second will ever matter....and standard tq converter tranny are beating mpg and often 0-60 times in more and more new cars....so to justify a stick by being "faster" or more efficient is no longer a real argument on most cars...
get what you like .Nuff said.

 

Now you're talking philosophy and ideas versus the technical reality.

FYI, Formula 1 has standing starts. The drivers hold a "launch" button that puts the ECU and trans into a special starting line mode with anti-stall baked in just in case. A few years ago F1 banned "fully automatic" gearboxes and "seamless" shifting, as there was the complaint from the fans that the drivers weren't doing "anything" anymore. The rules forced the shifts to take a certain number of milliseconds and the driver use an upshift and downshift mechanism operated for each gear change [flappy paddles].

In the end, there will be two sides to the argument; those that want an automatic and/or paddles, and those that want 3 pedals. Whatever reasons are, the excuse will be individual.

In the case of the JCW, the auto is quoted quicker acceleration times. Having driven an auto JCW at IMS, the programming is excellent and flawlessly predictive and so smooth it never upsets the longitudinal balance even during trail braking. An experienced racer's lap times would probably be marginally quicker with the auto; a n00b would be monumentally quicker with the auto.

 

^ this!! I can't wait for mine!

 

bring back the le mans running start i say!!

 

Even with quicker gear rstio's the manual is slower. If your going to do performance mods it just gets worse. Launching my car is crazy tricky as to much throttle in the first two great just brings wheel spin and I am running wider and stickier tires than oem. With the Auto JCW you can just stomp it and go no launch control needed stock. I have not driven one with my bhp/wtq so not sure how it would be :(

 

If doing 0-60 runs is your only idea of fun, then by all means... buy the automatic.

Otherwise...

 

There is a reason why the UK has a lot more manual transmissions than in the US. They are a totally different culture where 80% of car sales are manual. It is a culture difference and does not make for a real argument whether a manual is better than an auto (DCT or torque converter)

 

e46jb. I agree. Obviously there are cultural and driving conditions that differ between the US and Europe in general. Driving mainly....small twisty narrow roads and fast motorways. Also economic. When you are buying a cheap car an automatic is probably not something everyone could afford.
What I am interested in is if you did not have the launch control would the auto still be quicker to 60mph? I just can not see at a constant 60mph that the auto could have a better fuel consumption....

 

Yes the Auto is quicker and better mpg. Auto shifts pretty damn fast and if your foot is not in it heavy it will be in fourth gear while the manual driver is still in second. Launch control has a finite amount of uses before it no longer works. Imo its meant for the drag strip. I have a manual in mine, will do the sport auto next time.

 

Since the new Clubman will have the 8-speed AT, it shouldn't be too long before the 6-speed is dropped from the F56 and replaced by the same 8-speed auto.

My understanding is that the 8-speed is already available in some of the BMWs. Does anyone know how that's working out? Does the 8-speed have a "sport" mode, and if so does it outperform the 6-speed? (Which in turn may outperform the 6MT).

Years ago I'd never consider an auto, but these days it seems that AT is a viable option for "sport" driving. Should we wait for the 8-speed?

 

LOL/// What are you all smoking?



A true automatic transmission, (like the MINI auto) uses a torque converter. The VAG DSG, BMW's DSG, Ferrari, Aston, Porsche, (insert any other sequential gearbox) or the older BMW SMG's are manual boxes, that use computer controlled clutches, and shifting.




Specifically, the DSG (dual clutch transmission) is a sequential dual clutch transmission. (as are all the high end racing gearboxes) They have almost nothing in common with an automatic gearbox, besides a name...

 

I"ve kept up on the BMW, especially the 2 series and from what I've read there has been next to no problems with it. It's a ZF made unit and is working well for performance or economy. I still prefer the manual, but there's no reason to do so, except the desire to row the gears, as this one is definitely faster and more economical. And as for the 2 series, I'm still considering one as the lease rates on BMW's is very good, as compared to MINI's lease rates, at least in my case.

 

Statistically only about 6% of all new vehicles sold in the US are manual transmissions.

...and with run flats (cell phones and paid auto clubs) how many people know how to change a tire?

What is the number of drivers today know how to add fuel but not know how to check their oil level?

... anyway...

Motor on!