JCW F56 JCW vs. MK7 Golf R
#26
04-30-2015, 03:36 PM
To me I feel like I've saved $15K+ by being willing to manually adjust my own seat and to have wings instead of propellers on my car. The F55 feels a lot more like 'the ultimate driving machine' than anything BMW has sold without an 'M' (package or series) for a while now - it even has a BMW engine.
But if you are willing/able to do your own performance mods it makes no sense to buy new - you might even be better off getting a used 'justa' instead of an S and making it go. And if you really don't need 4 seats you might also do better by going lighter and finding a roadster (MINI, Miata, or Porsche) that catches your eye.
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boki (01-25-2020)
#28
05-01-2015, 04:56 AM
So. I now have an interesting dilemma. I have been living with an F56 MCS for a year, It has been plagued with problems. New gearbox at 4000km, messed up rear shocks (that have been that way for over 6 months)....etc.. Mini Canada have offered me a discount on a new JCW around $5k off.
But even with the discount the loaded JCW is the same price as the Golf R. I think the R will hold it's value more too....I have heard that the previous models have because they are so unique. It is a tough decision. I like my Mini dealership. But is that the reason to stick with Mini. There are plenty of happy VW customers.
It is also a risk whichever way I go. By a slightly faster version of the same car they has had all these problems or try something completely fresh.
Thoughts are appreciated.
But even with the discount the loaded JCW is the same price as the Golf R. I think the R will hold it's value more too....I have heard that the previous models have because they are so unique. It is a tough decision. I like my Mini dealership. But is that the reason to stick with Mini. There are plenty of happy VW customers.
It is also a risk whichever way I go. By a slightly faster version of the same car they has had all these problems or try something completely fresh.
Thoughts are appreciated.
#29
05-01-2015, 05:28 AM
There wasn't a Golf R near me so I never tried one - and honestly the performance packaged GTI was sufficient for my needs so it wasn't worth the trip to do so. That said...
2015 Golf Rs only come in DSG sport auto...so if you want a stick you'll need to wait for the 2016s.
If you care about 4 doors you'll have to wait for the JCW.
By 2016 there will be a Mazdaspeed 3 - if you like it's '4-door shooting brake' shape (yes, I know, a contradiction in terms).
Assuming you can deal with black, black, and black the Golf R's interior looks better the GTI's (at least in pictures). Still like the MINI's better though.
As I've said before once a car's engine hits 'sufficient' I'll always take lighter/nimbler over more HP.
But honestly, you just can't go wrong with either.
2015 Golf Rs only come in DSG sport auto...so if you want a stick you'll need to wait for the 2016s.
If you care about 4 doors you'll have to wait for the JCW.
By 2016 there will be a Mazdaspeed 3 - if you like it's '4-door shooting brake' shape (yes, I know, a contradiction in terms).
Assuming you can deal with black, black, and black the Golf R's interior looks better the GTI's (at least in pictures). Still like the MINI's better though.
As I've said before once a car's engine hits 'sufficient' I'll always take lighter/nimbler over more HP.
But honestly, you just can't go wrong with either.
#30
05-01-2015, 05:52 AM
Greg I'll say this about the JCW. Based from my talks with Mini, they project the JCW will lose 40% value in 3.5 years. This is a bigger drop then the projected S & Base for the same time period. A good idea to figure how how this will relate to the Golf R is to ask VW what the projected value will be for the R for the same time period. They will be able to tell you what numbers you are looking at that's how leases are figured out. I'll go out on a limb here and say that the R will lose more valve then the GTI.
#31
05-01-2015, 06:09 AM
If you're buying a JCW or Golf R (or practically any new mainstream car) based on projected re-sale value, you're buying for the wrong reason. I've owned both. Both are fun. Both have their pros and cons. Neither made me rich when I decided to sell them.
When I bought my JCW the dealer had too many cars on the lot. I got $6K off sticker. When I bought my 'rare' MkVI Golf R, there were 7 (SEVEN) on the lot. So much for being 'scarce'. It was easy to get a little $$ off MSRP.
If you like individuality, the MINI has it in spades - and you can dress it up or down a lot, just by checking option boxes. In the Golf R, you have 5 or so exterior color choices, and 1 interior color.
True, the Golf R is only available with a DSG - for now. Same for the JCW - for now. I've had a GTI with the DSG and it was a fun car. That's the only car I've owned that came with paddles that I actually used. I didn't order my F56S with paddles, as my last car(s) that had them saw little to no usage. (Side Note: I probably had one of the rarest of all Golf Rs out there - absolutely ZERO mods
Well, ok - I added a US Millworks license plate holder [that I kept and re-sold]).
For me, it doesn't matter what car I buy - it WILL lose value. I log 25-30K miles a year on a car. It's my 'everything' car.
YMMV, I am not a lawyer, past performance doesn't indicate future growth, etc etc.
When I bought my JCW the dealer had too many cars on the lot. I got $6K off sticker. When I bought my 'rare' MkVI Golf R, there were 7 (SEVEN) on the lot. So much for being 'scarce'. It was easy to get a little $$ off MSRP.
If you like individuality, the MINI has it in spades - and you can dress it up or down a lot, just by checking option boxes. In the Golf R, you have 5 or so exterior color choices, and 1 interior color.
True, the Golf R is only available with a DSG - for now. Same for the JCW - for now. I've had a GTI with the DSG and it was a fun car. That's the only car I've owned that came with paddles that I actually used. I didn't order my F56S with paddles, as my last car(s) that had them saw little to no usage. (Side Note: I probably had one of the rarest of all Golf Rs out there - absolutely ZERO mods
Well, ok - I added a US Millworks license plate holder [that I kept and re-sold]).For me, it doesn't matter what car I buy - it WILL lose value. I log 25-30K miles a year on a car. It's my 'everything' car.
YMMV, I am not a lawyer, past performance doesn't indicate future growth, etc etc.
Last edited by carman63; 05-01-2015 at 06:18 AM. Reason: Clarity
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boki (01-25-2020)
#32
05-01-2015, 12:24 PM
That said...if you are really worried about resale value have your dealer do the math on a lease. Usually you end up paying an extra 10% or so for the financial security of having a fixed 'resale' value and not having to worry about the spread between your used car's buy and sell price. It doesn't cost anything to ask...and you never know, if VW or MINI is running a lease deal you might do better.
#33
05-01-2015, 12:38 PM
#34
05-01-2015, 01:04 PM
#35
05-01-2015, 03:36 PM
OVERDRIVE
I think you gotta at least drive the thing before you spend $40 grand on it. You don't wanna take delivery and go "aw thing thing rides like a cement mixer". Like they said the VW interior is (Zoolander): "ONE LOOK?" Like my wife's former Mazda 3. Only the exterior color was an option. I've always said that when you get into this price range it becomes at least as much about image and perception and bias as it is about performance. I have this friend who loved my Mini MCS, and it had more room, he thought it was great every time he saw it, but he went with a used Boxster. Had to have that Porsche badge. Then he got rid of it and finally bought a Clubman.
Last edited by TheBigNewt; 05-01-2015 at 03:41 PM.
#36
05-02-2015, 05:20 AM
Please forgive me if I'm telling you things you already know...but I did have one other thought...
If you would be ordering your JCW and want to maximize resale try to keep to packages over options (and try to keep them 'popular'). My experience has been that when it comes time to resell your car the buyer/dealer will care about 'sport pkg' but not any of the $250 options that customize your car.
If you would be ordering your JCW and want to maximize resale try to keep to packages over options (and try to keep them 'popular'). My experience has been that when it comes time to resell your car the buyer/dealer will care about 'sport pkg' but not any of the $250 options that customize your car.
#37
05-02-2015, 05:40 AM
#38
05-02-2015, 07:00 AM
#42
05-03-2015, 06:06 PM
The latter has some character and it why people buy them.
Some don't care about ergonomics and design but for me everything must be part of the package with performance and handling. It is the reason I have always been impressed by the Japanese cars I owned.
For me to own a Mini has not been planned. It just happened because it was the Coupe and nothing else that brought my attention the day I went to the showroom for the first time and furthermore it was a JCW.
I wanted to buy something fun to drive and my wife loved it. I went forward.
It is not the greatest car I have ever owned but I am still learning how to live with some of its non sense functionality after close to a year from new.
Mini is an image of the past that is marketed to survive no matter it is outdated in many of the revival concept of 2000 but it still sells just because it is an automotive icon.
#43
05-03-2015, 07:09 PM
#44
05-03-2015, 07:17 PM
The Mini doesn't match about performance and is also ugly and lacks about overall design....
Some don't care about ergonomics and design but for me everything must be part of the package with performance and handling. It is the reason I have always been impressed by the Japanese cars I owned.
For me to own a Mini has not been planned....I wanted to buy something fun to drive and my wife loved it....It is not the greatest car I have ever owned but I am still learning how to live with some of its non sense functionality after close to a year from new....
Some don't care about ergonomics and design but for me everything must be part of the package with performance and handling. It is the reason I have always been impressed by the Japanese cars I owned.
For me to own a Mini has not been planned....I wanted to buy something fun to drive and my wife loved it....It is not the greatest car I have ever owned but I am still learning how to live with some of its non sense functionality after close to a year from new....
That said...if you are content with 2 seats, like Japanese cars, and really are unhappy with your MINI coupe, Mazda starts accepting pre-orders for the 2016 Mazda MX-5 Miata on May 5th. 2,332 lbs of sheer driving fun for an MSRP of $30,195 - for the fully loaded launch edition. And if 150HP for 2,332 lbs sounds too tame...people have been 'charging' their MX-5s for decades.
#45
05-04-2015, 11:00 AM
OVERDRIVE
Keep in mind he has a JCW Coupe (me too), which along with the Roadster (RIP) are the most different handling Minis. Why? Because being a convertable the Roadster had to have a heavier, stiffened frame, and the Coupe has the same frame even though it has a top. So it's way stiffer, no body roll at all. Lowest center of gravity by far, and almost 50/50 weight distribution. Combine that with the JCW goodies and the car handles a lot differently than my 2007 MCS. With the brakes you feel like you can enter a turn way faster, slow quickly, and exit like a bat out of hell. It's pretty cool when you get it going. And on smooth roads at high speeds the car is awesome. I'm sure the F56 JCW will be awesome too, probably even faster.
#46
05-04-2015, 06:49 PM
You need space and a 4 seater ?????? the Infiniti Q60 in the mid 30K.
#47
05-11-2015, 12:35 AM
Ok guys this will be a very long response. I feel like I need to jump in here. I think first it should be said I have a long relationship with MINI and VW.
I've had 2 VWs (GTI, Golf R (Now 2015)) and MINI (07 Cooper S, and '15 JCW Coupe).
The Golf R I've already had 3 problems:
1) Badge crooked - they replaced it with a new badge in the wrong spot because VW's service specs are not what they use on the assembly line so my badge is in a different spot. The dealer gave me another one so I could try and place it properly myself.
2) There were loose metal pieces in my C pillars near the seat belts. Not exactly something that made me feel good, but those got fixed.
3) Windshield ripples/distortion. They replaced the windshield once, it now is worse. They called out the "regional quality technical manager" to check the second one, and deemed my windshield within spec, and also declared "they're all that way" - So I'm not super happy with the car from that respect. Every time I look through the front of it cars/objects whatever ripple. It's quite distracting.
The Golf R overall is a really good car at that price point, but execution is lacking from VW. I know MINIs aren't as reliable as they should be (I had the timing chain guide on my 07 break off and go into the engine). VW has not done anything to make me ever want to buy another one of their products. I'm stuck now because if I sell the R, I'm eating like 4k in taxes. So what I'm going to do now is try and buy a windshield out of pocket to see if that makes the car livable. For the price of tax I'm losing I could try 10 different windshields so we'll see what happens.
Here is what I wrote on motoringfile about driving the R vs the F55 the loaner F55 I have has the sport suspension btw:
I've had 2 VWs (GTI, Golf R (Now 2015)) and MINI (07 Cooper S, and '15 JCW Coupe).
The Golf R I've already had 3 problems:
1) Badge crooked - they replaced it with a new badge in the wrong spot because VW's service specs are not what they use on the assembly line so my badge is in a different spot. The dealer gave me another one so I could try and place it properly myself.
2) There were loose metal pieces in my C pillars near the seat belts. Not exactly something that made me feel good, but those got fixed.
3) Windshield ripples/distortion. They replaced the windshield once, it now is worse. They called out the "regional quality technical manager" to check the second one, and deemed my windshield within spec, and also declared "they're all that way" - So I'm not super happy with the car from that respect. Every time I look through the front of it cars/objects whatever ripple. It's quite distracting.
The Golf R overall is a really good car at that price point, but execution is lacking from VW. I know MINIs aren't as reliable as they should be (I had the timing chain guide on my 07 break off and go into the engine). VW has not done anything to make me ever want to buy another one of their products. I'm stuck now because if I sell the R, I'm eating like 4k in taxes. So what I'm going to do now is try and buy a windshield out of pocket to see if that makes the car livable. For the price of tax I'm losing I could try 10 different windshields so we'll see what happens.
Here is what I wrote on motoringfile about driving the R vs the F55 the loaner F55 I have has the sport suspension btw:
Um so my R58 is in the shop for the standard factory-installed dashboard rattles. For my loaner they gave me an automatic Cooper S F55. I thought I'd chime in here to give a MINI fan perspective since I've had time to drive the car around and get to know it.
-This car is great. Still MINI, handles well, chuckable
-Slow but fast. Seems very zippy, has enough PEP, but I'd say the JCW version will be the cat's meow
-The car has more steering feel than my R58, and my '15 Golf R
-The car handles better than my '15 Golf R (yeah I know I'm nuts) -- it's odd, but it just feels like its going to do what I predict better. My golf R has the DCC, which has this odd bit of body roll/wiggle when cornering that feels slightly off-putting
-This car's automatic *SHIFTS AWESOMELY* -- I never thought I'd hear myself say or think this. But sticking the car in M mode, I smack the stick to -, and it just downshifts. I smack it to + it shifts up. No drama, executes it when I want it. This is the real SHOCKER here. My '15 Golf R with DSG doesn't SHIFT AS WELL IN MANUAL MODE!!! Yes I'm flabbergasted. I know you don't believe me but it's true. The R thinks about what you want to do before it executes. An example. I'm driving along foot on the accelrator, I hit the left paddle to downshift. The R pauses, maybe for like a second before it executes. The MINI does it right away. If I'm on the brake, and I shift to the next gear, like 2-3 the R pauses. The MINI just executes. Sometimes when downshifting the R bangs into gear, and jerks the car around. Frankly I'm very shocked, but I need to say BMW/MINI has gotten this automatic right. This isn't your Dad's mini's automatic. Yup. They've made a great change here. Old R5X service loaners were something I used to detest in automatic guise. This car is very good. Worth a look for manual averse or traffic dwellers.
-Styling? still meh.. I'm not a fan of the new front end, or the mascara/surprised looking DRL LED rings. I like the '15 R58 round fog light LED ring better. Much more sporty and less cartoon-y. The rear on the F55 also has a slight odd look to it.
-The loaner has rattles already. Coming from the driver side rear door, the "boot" area etc. A MINI is a MINI is a MINI I guess. Rattles are par for the course.
-THIS CAR IS WAY MORE BMW, but still MINI. I never would have thought they could pull it off, but they did.
-The artificial sound creator, I can't tell it's there. In my R it's obviously a fake sound being piped into the cabin, this car sounds natural. I'd say though that the exhaust is definitely way too quiet. Get the JCW with remote if you want some good sound. I would if I bought this car.
There you have it. I honestly wish I had taken a look at this car prior to getting the Golf R. I've had other VW quality problems that make that car a huge pain in the a$$.
Good job MINI. Now I think this likely means I better not go drive the F56 JCW unless i want to buy it.
Gabriel Bridger when we getting info on the GP3? haha... I'm thinking of the Fry meme "TAKE MY MONEY" although I've become very attached to my coupe so it's going to be a tough call. Oh and could I please have a job at motoringfile? Thanks!
-This car is great. Still MINI, handles well, chuckable
-Slow but fast. Seems very zippy, has enough PEP, but I'd say the JCW version will be the cat's meow
-The car has more steering feel than my R58, and my '15 Golf R
-The car handles better than my '15 Golf R (yeah I know I'm nuts) -- it's odd, but it just feels like its going to do what I predict better. My golf R has the DCC, which has this odd bit of body roll/wiggle when cornering that feels slightly off-putting
-This car's automatic *SHIFTS AWESOMELY* -- I never thought I'd hear myself say or think this. But sticking the car in M mode, I smack the stick to -, and it just downshifts. I smack it to + it shifts up. No drama, executes it when I want it. This is the real SHOCKER here. My '15 Golf R with DSG doesn't SHIFT AS WELL IN MANUAL MODE!!! Yes I'm flabbergasted. I know you don't believe me but it's true. The R thinks about what you want to do before it executes. An example. I'm driving along foot on the accelrator, I hit the left paddle to downshift. The R pauses, maybe for like a second before it executes. The MINI does it right away. If I'm on the brake, and I shift to the next gear, like 2-3 the R pauses. The MINI just executes. Sometimes when downshifting the R bangs into gear, and jerks the car around. Frankly I'm very shocked, but I need to say BMW/MINI has gotten this automatic right. This isn't your Dad's mini's automatic. Yup. They've made a great change here. Old R5X service loaners were something I used to detest in automatic guise. This car is very good. Worth a look for manual averse or traffic dwellers.
-Styling? still meh.. I'm not a fan of the new front end, or the mascara/surprised looking DRL LED rings. I like the '15 R58 round fog light LED ring better. Much more sporty and less cartoon-y. The rear on the F55 also has a slight odd look to it.
-The loaner has rattles already. Coming from the driver side rear door, the "boot" area etc. A MINI is a MINI is a MINI I guess. Rattles are par for the course.
-THIS CAR IS WAY MORE BMW, but still MINI. I never would have thought they could pull it off, but they did.
-The artificial sound creator, I can't tell it's there. In my R it's obviously a fake sound being piped into the cabin, this car sounds natural. I'd say though that the exhaust is definitely way too quiet. Get the JCW with remote if you want some good sound. I would if I bought this car.
There you have it. I honestly wish I had taken a look at this car prior to getting the Golf R. I've had other VW quality problems that make that car a huge pain in the a$$.
Good job MINI. Now I think this likely means I better not go drive the F56 JCW unless i want to buy it.
Gabriel Bridger when we getting info on the GP3? haha... I'm thinking of the Fry meme "TAKE MY MONEY" although I've become very attached to my coupe so it's going to be a tough call. Oh and could I please have a job at motoringfile? Thanks!
#48
05-11-2015, 06:52 AM
2nd Gear
Caveat: I own a '07 R56 and an '11 GTI.
MINI and VW both make fantastic driving cars with **** reliability. Both will eat you alive in terms of maintenance costs; if you accept that going in, I heartily recommend buying a used one with some mileage so that you don't sweat a scratch in the paint or a scuffed door card. The reliability is bad enough overall on either to say that buying new isn't really that much of an improvement. Both charge ridiculous premiums for their top-end models, but their baseline performance models (the S and the GTI) are great bargains, easy to find in condition used, and have solid aftermarket support.
So what's the difference? It's classic BMW versus Audi. Like BMW, the MINI asks a lot more of its driver in daily driving and is harder to get to its limit. Once you get comfortable with its nuances, it can run faster, but it takes skill. It's not nearly as comfortable as a daily driver, but it's not devastatingly punishing (like a traditional sports car). Like Audi, the Golf/GTI/R are easy-to-drive everyday and easier to drive hard. It's easier to push it hard and find its limit. It's smooth and relaxing on a normal drive; it makes for a nice smooth cruise. Simple answer: any driver can run a VW quickly; a good driver can make a MINI dance.
I'd say that it comes down to general driving style and type of commute. If I have a lot of highways, high speed, long distance, and broken pavement, I'll take the VW. It's closer to a GT style. If I've got lots of curvy secondary roads, low speed, short distance, and smooth pavement, I'll take the MINI.
MINI and VW both make fantastic driving cars with **** reliability. Both will eat you alive in terms of maintenance costs; if you accept that going in, I heartily recommend buying a used one with some mileage so that you don't sweat a scratch in the paint or a scuffed door card. The reliability is bad enough overall on either to say that buying new isn't really that much of an improvement. Both charge ridiculous premiums for their top-end models, but their baseline performance models (the S and the GTI) are great bargains, easy to find in condition used, and have solid aftermarket support.
So what's the difference? It's classic BMW versus Audi. Like BMW, the MINI asks a lot more of its driver in daily driving and is harder to get to its limit. Once you get comfortable with its nuances, it can run faster, but it takes skill. It's not nearly as comfortable as a daily driver, but it's not devastatingly punishing (like a traditional sports car). Like Audi, the Golf/GTI/R are easy-to-drive everyday and easier to drive hard. It's easier to push it hard and find its limit. It's smooth and relaxing on a normal drive; it makes for a nice smooth cruise. Simple answer: any driver can run a VW quickly; a good driver can make a MINI dance.
I'd say that it comes down to general driving style and type of commute. If I have a lot of highways, high speed, long distance, and broken pavement, I'll take the VW. It's closer to a GT style. If I've got lots of curvy secondary roads, low speed, short distance, and smooth pavement, I'll take the MINI.
#49
05-11-2015, 08:56 AM
OVERDRIVE
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