Hey guys,

I had the chance to drive the new Golf R this week and I came away very impressed. Very balanced and powerful (+290 hp) car. AWD, great interior quality, and all the goodies you can expect to have for a car of this price.

The sticker was $39,090 which is less expensive than a JCW with the same level of options (i.e. $40,700), and it has more power and AWD.

This is an alternative that I am really considering.

What do you think? Anyone else is cross-shopping the JCW with the R?

 

Just on looks I'd go for the mini. On performance, haven't driven either so that would be in your court to decide. For reliability I'd go VW, wife's Golf TDI has been pretty good in that department.

As to dealership experience, Mini hands down beats VW local dealer in service.

 

I worked at a VW dealer in service and have to say the older Golfs (the whole line) had plenty of issues. Most of them were stupid electronic issues, or some sensor failure here or there. Headaches these cars. Due to that experience, I will avoid VW for the foreseeable future.

 

Are you guys serious on dealers? Unlike Mini, VW does not charge $1300 to replace a deficient airbag sensor in your seat or $1440 for a frigging water pump or $3000 to do a clutch job (if applicable, the R is DSG only, right?) That said DSG - while super fast - is not the most reliable tranny out there, I should know I have an S4 and Audi spent $4000 already on the mechatronics control unit.

On dealer / reliability / FWD performance, I would not spend that kind of coin on EITHER of those cars. In that price range I'd get me a used CaymanS or a V8 M3, heck even an S4 (stick, this time) ;-) $40K is a lot of money to shell out for a FWD car or a souped up Golf.

 

Haven't driven the new R, but did drive the one from a couple of years ago.

While it is a nice car and should be a serious consideration for some people, it is not in consideration for me. The car lacks soul and individuality in my opinion. It looks just like every other Golf, which looks like so many other hatchback cars. The newer styling from VW has really lost me and I just don't like the way they look anymore.

With Mini, you get to really personalize the car and you are really getting so much more than just the car. Mini drivers (that chose to) also join a kind of community of other enthusiasts with events and meets that are fun and have a lot of nice people attending. Some may argue that there are VW clubs out there, but I have been to some of those meets and people were nowhere near as nice and only seemed to care about mods and how cool they think they are. Mini people seem to like all Mini's no matter which model.

To me, the car is just part of the whole experience which I have grown to love over the last 8 years that I have owned Minis. Manual Transmission JCW on order with no second thoughts. In fact, selling my wife's 08 Jetta and giving her my current 11 Hardtop so we will be a 2 Mini family.

Please take my comments for what they are, a simple editorial on why I prefer the JCW and Mini in general to the Golf R and VW. The Golf R is an incredible vehicle in its own way and I am not saying otherwise.

Thanks.

 

I'm considering both.
The VW dealers are pretty low res compared to Mini.
I've had an F56 MCS and had lots of issues.
The F56 Mini is a bit of a mess in the design department IMO. When they scrapped the middle speedo The circle stopped making sense..but they kept it and stuffed all the rectangular shapes in it.
The VW is pretty plain. I've not driven one but have driven an S3 - Very, very quick....but can you really use it? You can loose your licence in a second. On the other hand the sensation of speed in the Mini means you can have fun at lower speeds.
I believe the R is a better car for the money and way, way faster but is it a more fun car. I would say no. Maybe more practical but way heavier and uses way more gas.
I think these are different cars. The R consistently gets rave reviews. Lets seen how the JCW gets reviewed!
I'm still on the fence!

 

I've driven the Mk6 R. Nice car in many ways. Refined, nice interior quality. Great manual 6sp. Awesome power and delivery. AWD is great and needed for that much power! BUT: heavy, and very poor gas mileage. And for the Mk7: I really don't like the looks. The car is anonymous (a plus for some). I still think the MINI (R56s in my case) is more fun, cheaper, better mileage. Like some said, more FEEL of speed, and much more tossable.

 

I just bought the 2015 JCW last night from the dealership and could not be happier. Yes, the VW maybe better in alot of things, but it's the clubs/dealer participation that I love. Going to track days up at VIR, burning through a set of brakes, take it to the dealer and they replace it all for free under warranty. Mini takes the states is a blast, and again, the community as people have mentioned are key. Maybe because we are all a bit odd in spending so much for a little car that we all get it.

 

the golf R is a total beast.. very impressed with what they've done with that car. luxurious and as fast as evos/stis now

 

Funny you should ask, I'm in the middle of doing just that (to replace my R56).
Golf R wins on:
- performance (4.9 sec 0-60 vs. 5.9 sec for JCW)
- utility (can be had with either 2 or 4 doors)

JCW wins on:
- weight (2,845 (2,885 w/auto) vs. 3,340 lbs for Golf R (auto only))
- mileage (26/35 vs. 23/30 city/highway for Golf R)
- exterior looks (subjective)
- interior materials (subjective, I guess I just got used to R56 MINI quirks)

I will need to go and test drive JCW to get closer to a decision.

Golf R drives really well for a 3,300+ lbs car, but all the extra weight is clearly felt.
For all practical purposes, Golf R is a cheaper S3 with a LOT of incentives on it.

a

 

Please let us know once you have drive the JCW. Bet it is more fun.*...

Think the R is a better car....but love the tossable JCW! :-)

Almost always the better built vehicles weigh more...

 

From what I remember, the Monroney sticker of the JCW indicated 28/32 as EPA rating. I agree on the quality of the interior material (i.e. slightly higher on the JCW).

 

Will do, though dealers are closed around NJ on Sundays (for some weird reason).
I am left to play with online configs, and realized that Golf GTI is really a much closer match for JCW (5.9 sec 0-60 for both).
Golf R is on another performance level altogether.

Yet, VW is pushing Golf R's out the door with higher lease residuals, so the same lease terms (12 K miles / 3 years / 0 down / 0 trade) on $27.9K GTI produce $454 monthly payment while on $36.6K Golf R the payment is $435.

BTW, my $36.6K JCW config (identical price point to how I configured Golf R!) yields $471 monthly (with 60% residual and 3.99% APR from MINI USA).

a

 

Yeah, the GTI is probably a better comparison point to JCW than the R. The R is indeed in another league, not the least because of AWD and DSG. AWD is also the main reason its such a weight porker, but I guess performance is still in another league. And in my experience with that much power on tap, you need AWD to put it down.

 

I will be buying a Mk7 Golf R once they arrive in Canada. Great car.

 

OK, some early feedback after driving them all: GTI, MCS, JCW, and Type R. In that order.

The last one was the hardest to track down. There is only one in the 75 mile radius from me, and even that one had a deposit on it already, so I did not abuse it much. Virtually all 2015 Type R's are allocated, and you either pay MSRP+ for one, or you have to wait until 2016 MY cars roll out and hit the dealer floor (ETA Oct+).

MCS is a fun car, and both it and JCW handle well. JCW is clearly better, but not as much as I thought it would be. You already know this.
JCW gets a well appreciated power boost, but somehow, it did not feel any quicker than GTI. Even though both are close on power (220 hp for GTI vs. 228 for JCW from turbo 2.0L engines), GTI is rated a bit quicker 0-60 (5.8 sec vs. 5.9 for JCW). VW must really be under-rating that engine!
Even though GTI is a bit heavier (3,086 lbs vs. 2845 for JCW), the weight difference is smaller than I sited above: only 245 lbs. Actually, that's a lot, but it didn't not feel that way when I drove it!

GTI (with Performance Pack) handled and performed really well on the street. There was less torque steer in GTI than JCW, and I had a harder time triggering DSC light in the former than the latter. GTI felt a touch quieter than JCW, especially accelerating at WOT, so its speed is more deceptive.

And then there was the Golf Type R.
Like others said, it's in another league.
Similar to the difference between BMW's 228i/328/ (very nice) and M235i/335i (almost stupid quick). Except that Type R has AWD, and you can go WOT in mid turn and still accelerate without a hint of understeer or wheelspin. And then you hit the "race" mode, and everything gets louder and feels faster. I have a friend with S3, and the Type R's interior somehow felt more upscale. The worse thing I can say about Type R is that the turbo lag is there, but so is tons of performance and traction. I will not bother advising you to buy one, as you probably can't get a 2015 model at all. And 2016's are 6+ month away.

In summary - these are good days to be shopping for $25-35K hot hatchbacks. I have many minor complaints about interior/exterior styling and layouts of both the JCW and GTI, but either one will be a great fun car. I hate VW packaging - lower "S" trim is everything I would want (include very grippy cloth seats), but doesn't come with rear view camera. "SE" and "autobahn" models do, but insist on putting you in plastic (leatherette) seats and add other junk I don't need. I much prefer MINI's a-la-carte option pricing approach.

If you need 4 doors, get a GTI and you wont regret it. Or wait for the late fall to bid on 2016 Type R.
If you can live with 2 doors, your choice is harder, but the lighter JCW should prove to be a better handling track/autoX toy.

a

 

I did some cross shopping. Wife loves the looks of a MINI (as do most people). They are a one of a kind auto.

We started with a JCW in mind but after looking at the difference in cost between the S (with some of the appearance packages) we opted down to the S.

However, even if we had not ordered the S and stayed with the JCW, I could not find a car out there that looks like a MINI (and that's what she wanted). @ the $40K range you have ALOT of options, BMW, Mercedes and the like:

http://www.autobytel.com/car-buying-...er-40k-114257/

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...ni-jcw-feature

http://www.boston.com/cars/news-and-...s.html#slide-1

Point being, there is only one MINI. There are no look-a-likes. If you want a car that looks like a MINI you have only one choice (and with it, accept it's performance advantages/limitations and design features).

If on the other hand you are shopping performance or value and you don't care specifically about a certain look, there are a number of other cars to consider. You didn't mention if you were looking specifically for performance or not, or bang for the buck. I tend to think when a MINI is being shopped it's based on looks first and most everything else is secondary. I do know that was true our case.

Good luck on whatever you choose.

 

Yes...and no. I too did a lot of cross shopping and once you actually configure your BMW 335i or M235i to be comparable with your MINI you've long left 40K behind and are now in the $55K price range. The X1 28 is cheaper but is just awful to drive - and the X1 35 is faster...but still awful.

Really, the Golf was the only competition for my new MINI. But it is bigger and the interior felt cheaper. And as a personal preference the fun Golfs only come in black (or mostly black) interiors....and after having one I HATE the heat from black interiors.

 

I agree - X1 is vastly underwhelming.
328i, while not a direct competitor to either MCS or JCW, starts at $32K. It is a neat little car with a great engine that is just way too heavy for its own good (3345 lbs, but 0-60 in 5.4 secs). I've just fooled around with configs, and got what I would consider a fun package for MSRP of $39,225.
The thing to remember about BMWs, is that you can regularly get them for $500-$1K over invoice (unlike MINIs), and with 7+% MSRP markup, you can expect to drive one off the lot for $37.5K plus tax. And that is not accounting for any of the myriad of ongoing promotions...

Agree.
Golf GTE or R are very compelling.
The interior option are crap. I could live with cloth, but it is only offered on the stripper GTI. If you get any options, you are stuck with cheap feeling plastic (leatherette) seats.
Golf R has very nice black leather seats for sticker MSRP of only $37,415. That's a great value proposition. Unfortunately, it is practically n/a until MY 2016 hits the showroom in the fall.

Back to JCW ...

a

 

A lot of Mini's appeal is the ability to customize the interior. For instance mine with the Recaro seats and all of the red bits (secret compartment, door rings, glove box, door padding) is something you can't get in most subcompacts. You get everything in black. Or black. The Mini's interior leaves VW in the dust and a lot of people like that over a few tenths of a second in 0-60. It's something you see everyday.

 

Totally agree with that... My issue though is that at this price point, you can get *a lot* more car slightly used. Cayman S, early 997, M3, S4/S5, etc... You have to really want all that individuality in compact form to pay $40K and only get 200-something hp. I thought the pricing of the Golf R was nuts but I guess I never considered a loaded JCW is the same. Ouch.

 

The problem with the 328i is that without the M package it purposely insulates you from the road. And with the M package to equip the 328i like I did my MINI - Cold Weather, LED, Nav/HUD, LED, Rear Camera, Leather/SiriusXM - I hit an MSRP of $51,450. Around $15K more than my MINI to get powered seats and the reduced utility of a sedan instead of a hatch. To get the wagon I was looking at $55K (admittedly with 4WD). To add insult to injury about half way through my search BMW stopped offering the 3 series Ms in Estoril Blue. And to add temptation to that, the day before I ordered my MINI I saw 'my' wagon in Estoril Blue with 3000 miles appear on a dealer's lot for 50K - I'm guessing a hausfrau was unhappy with driving over potholes in the M suspension. But I stayed with the MINI.

 

There is no question that you pay a premium to buy new. Some of that is because if you buy used you HAVE to buy what is on the lot, some is the fear that only lemons get resold in the first few years, some is the simple pleasure/convenience of being the 'first' owner.I looked at used Boxsters not Caymans but agree that older low mileage ones are a steal of the century in terms of FUN/$$$. But only 2 seats meant that in my role as Dad I would get to have that fun a lot less often than in a 4 seater.

But really where I think we differ is that having had my big fast car (a used 1995 911 Turbo) I really do think any additional power that gets you 0-60 faster than 6 secs is basically useless off the track. Yes, it was fun to take an onramp at 25, floor the accelerator, and suddenly find myself going 75. But then I was driving along at 75 in a car designed to cruise at 120MPH+ and it was...well...boring. Day in and day out the Boxster I bought later was a lot more fun.

 

I still think the FUN/$$ could be a Cooper 3 cyl manual with one of those BurgerTune turbo booster thingys that adds about 20 HP. I bet that would be a blast just to beat on around town. I agree, I can only hit the paddle shifter and goose it for a couple seconds around here.

 

Nah, I kinda agree with you, and I apologize for the hijack.... It's just that at $40K the JCW makes no sense to *me*. This is (againd for me) the price range for a nice german track car in my book. I'd rather buy a decent R53 Cooper S and mod it slightly and I'd save almost $30K !!! Never mind me, it's just that I had not realized JCWs were "that" expensive now.... just like I don't get the Golf R at that price (when the GTI is 15K cheaper and a 2y old the S4 way faster). We all have our personal fun/$ threshold ;-)