Installing Brake Ducts R56

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Old 08-02-2009, 07:35 PM
btwdriver
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Installing Brake Ducts R56

So, this weekend I installed some brake ducts on my R56... well I kinda did. Here are some pics of how it started out:












Overall I was pretty happy with the location of the duct.. until I put the wheels back on and was checking clearance. It was then that I discovered there was not enough room between the inside of the tire and the vertical piece on the subframe. My only choice was to pull the duct back to the subframe member. I did not get any photos, but the red circle below illustrates the new location of the brake duct:



I am not very happy with this location, but am not sure what other choice I have. If I were to go to a 2" duct hose, I "might" be able to route it around to the back side of the rotor where there is more room and bring it all the way into the caliper.

Here's where the advice comes in.... do you think it is better to just leave the 3" duct that I have now basically pointing at the rotor from maybe 8" away? or reduce the size of the duct to 2" and bring it all the way to the rotor?

This is one of the most frustrating projects that I have worked on to date..... there just doesn't seem to be enough room to do it right.
 
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Old 08-03-2009, 06:04 AM
slinger688
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I just spent a few hours putting in brake cooling ducts on my R56 this weekend as well. I put in the JCW brake duct kit on a regular R56 MCS so lots of retrofit. While I did not install the one you have, I did see some of the problems you face. I would go to a smaller 2" duct. The size of the duct 3" to 2" really would not matter all that much with the cooling as the volume of air would roughly be the same. I think the fit may be better.

Do you think it is better to direct the air flow slightly more toward the caliper region?
 
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Old 08-03-2009, 06:23 AM
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Hey Guys, nice work on the brake ducts. Just wanted to let you know that we carry the Sneed Speed Shop Brake Cool kit and they also have a R56S kit and we sell just the bracket that bolts to the brake system, it's only $60 a set. Just PM me for them.

As for where to place duct, here's what SSS has found, "that the rotor is what cools the caliper. There are veins built into the rotor to cool the rotor and blow on the caliper. The rotor is the main heat sink for the brake system that’s why we cool it and not the caliper."
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
 
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Old 08-03-2009, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by AutoXCooper.com View Post
Hey Guys, nice work on the brake ducts. Just wanted to let you know that we carry the Sneed Speed Shop Brake Cool kit and they also have a R56S kit and we sell just the bracket that bolts to the brake system, it's only $60 a set. Just PM me for them.

As for where to place duct, here's what SSS has found, "that the rotor is what cools the caliper. There are veins built into the rotor to cool the rotor and blow on the caliper. The rotor is the main heat sink for the brake system that’s why we cool it and not the caliper."
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
That is good info on the cooling. Curious is that th JCW brake duct kit seems to direct the air flow somewhat at the caliper from the front of the lining.

BTW, the kit was quite a pain to retrofit. I am still not done yet. Need to take a little break.
 
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Old 08-03-2009, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by AutoXCooper.com View Post
Hey Guys, nice work on the brake ducts. Just wanted to let you know that we carry the Sneed Speed Shop Brake Cool kit and they also have a R56S kit and we sell just the bracket that bolts to the brake system, it's only $60 a set. Just PM me for them.

As for where to place duct, here's what SSS has found, "that the rotor is what cools the caliper. There are veins built into the rotor to cool the rotor and blow on the caliper. The rotor is the main heat sink for the brake system that’s why we cool it and not the caliper."
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
I called Sneed's and asked them if they have an R56 kit and they said that they had not finished it yet. That was only about 2 weeks ago....

Also, I am pretty sure there is no way you can route a 3" duct behind the strut like that. On the drivers side the transmission comes pretty close to the vertical subframe member. I looked at the way the R56 Challenge cars are routing their ducts and they have 2 ducts. One on the front side of the rotor they have the duct pulled back like I do, on the rear side of the rotor, they are routing the duct under the lower control arm. This would not be practical on a street car, as you would hit way too much stuff with it.

Also, you are correct as to the cooling. The rotor pulls air from the center and vents it out the outside. The duct that I originally had mounted was actually pointing at the center of the rotor, not the caliper.
 
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Old 08-04-2009, 10:21 AM
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I just completed my JCW brake kit on a regular MCS. It took a little work but I am done.
 
Attached Thumbnails Installing Brake Ducts R56-dscn6911.jpg  
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Old 01-25-2010, 04:59 AM
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Thanks for the great pics,

I've been searching alot on the net for pics of a good brake dut install on a R56.

I really need my brakes cooled for the summer season when I'm doing the track days.

I was just wandering where you found the clamps for the mountings.
 
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Old 01-25-2010, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by peter_s View Post
Thanks for the great pics,

I've been searching alot on the net for pics of a good brake dut install on a R56.

I really need my brakes cooled for the summer season when I'm doing the track days.

I was just wandering where you found the clamps for the mountings.
Are you talking about the Sneed clamps. You can get those from Dustin at www.autoxcooper.com.

f you are asking about the JCW brake ducts, I got them from morristown mini.
 
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Old 01-25-2010, 06:03 AM
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Ahh, brilliant. Thanks for the tip! I will contact Dustin.

My brakes got too hot with XP8s and r compounds.
Lets try to be faster this season!

Enjoy 2010!
 
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Old 01-25-2010, 06:13 AM
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If those are stock brake calipers, I think it may be recommended that you run XP12s with r-comps.
 
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Old 01-25-2010, 07:32 AM
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I got the T-Clamps from a place called Silicon Intakes here. They have a bunch of different clams and silicone reducers pretty cheap.
 
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Old 01-25-2010, 07:46 AM
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Thanks for the replys!

slinger: I ran XP8s as I posted together with Motul RBF600 fluid, it didn't quite cut it. I'll try the XP10s this season together with steel braided hoses. I'm running stock S calipers.
The way I see it is that the brakes are big enough on the S, they just don't get any cold air since the wheel well is shielded off very much in the Mini.

btwdriver: Thanks for the tip, I'll see what I will do. Right now I also need adjustable camber plates so I might as well order the clamping kit from Sneed.

I might add that I live in Sweden, few companies in the states like shipping goods to me over here. Outmotoring and Summitracing are one of the few exceptions

BTW, how did you guys like the performance of your brakes (or should I say improvement in lack of consistency). Did anyone of you get to try your ducts under heavy load and noticed anything different compared to stock?
 
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Old 01-25-2010, 02:02 PM
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I ran stock calipers last year with XP12s and there were fine. No fade or overheating. But I did put in the JCW brake ducts and that helped a little I suppose.

BTW, I have stress cracks all over the stock rotors which I will change out in a little while. They are not trackable anymore.

I will be buying a BBK since the stock brakes are pretty much fried. I need them since I run track about 25-30 days a year.
 
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Old 01-25-2010, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by slinger688 View Post
I run track about 25-30 days a year.
I'm jealous!!!
 
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Old 01-26-2010, 12:28 AM
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slinger: Did you run r-compounds with the XP12s?

I found that the stock brakes were fine with normal street tyres and stock pads. When I'm running r-compounds and the Carbotechs they get quite a bit more hot since the brakes get to work more. I also have alot of stress cracks in my stock rotors. Have you ever tried another type of rotors?

I guess that the JCW ducts help some, at least you get some airflow through the wheel wells.

How is the XP12s on the street when cold? Usable or rubbish?

BTW: I really like your solution with the JCW ducts on the stock S bumper! Well done
 
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Old 01-26-2010, 06:21 AM
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If you're going to something like the XP12, it's a track only pad--great pad, but it's the wrong application for the street. If you're going with that serious of a pad, you really should be switching to street pads for the fronts.

The rears are another matter--I'll leave my track pads on those for the entire season, and swap them to regular pads after track season is over--they contribute such a relatively small amount of braking that the rotors hold up just fine during everyday driving.
 
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Old 01-26-2010, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by peter_s View Post
slinger: Did you run r-compounds with the XP12s?

I found that the stock brakes were fine with normal street tyres and stock pads. When I'm running r-compounds and the Carbotechs they get quite a bit more hot since the brakes get to work more. I also have alot of stress cracks in my stock rotors. Have you ever tried another type of rotors?

I guess that the JCW ducts help some, at least you get some airflow through the wheel wells.

How is the XP12s on the street when cold? Usable or rubbish?

BTW: I really like your solution with the JCW ducts on the stock S bumper! Well done
XP12 are not for the street generally. I sometimes run them to the track and back only (to break them in). The carbotechs I think are all similar compound and the only difference is the effective heat range.

I would not advise their use on the street but I still like them better than the OEM Mini even on the street. I just like their modulation.

If you have brake ducts, you can go with XP10s. I think I will use XP10s going forward. I run about 550-650 degrees hot on the brakes at the track.

The JCW brake ducts on a regular MCS idea came from mlg2ca. But we have two slightly different implementations of it.
 
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Old 01-26-2010, 06:45 AM
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Forgot to mention, I do not run r-comps but will this season. My car is pretty stock as s-driver would attest to.

But that should change a little this year.
 
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Old 01-26-2010, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by S-Driver View Post
I'm jealous!!!
S-driver,

That may not happen as of right now. Being asked to unretire to help out a friend.
 
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Old 01-26-2010, 07:00 AM
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cct1: I do think that XP10 would be "enough" for my application.

Slinger: I think the XP10s would be good with some cooling. The XP8s worked very well on the street. They felt like the stock pads when they were cold, but had a lot of "bite" when they were hot. I do think the XP12s would wear the discs pretty fast during "street driving". My car is after all my daily driver, so I have to be able to get to work after the weekend.

I do think that the r-compounds will put additional strain on your brakes since they will be able to stop your car faster.

I had no brake cooling this season, one set of XP8s lasted 2 track days (in front that is). On both sides the pads against the pistons were bent (!) because they got so hot. Just incredible, I think I actually glazed them badly.

On another note, I do need to work more on my braking technique, but I really tried to be easy on the brakes.
 
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Old 01-26-2010, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by peter_s View Post
cct1: I do think that XP10 would be "enough" for my application.

Slinger: I think the XP10s would be good with some cooling. The XP8s worked very well on the street. They felt like the stock pads when they were cold, but had a lot of "bite" when they were hot. I do think the XP12s would wear the discs pretty fast during "street driving". My car is after all my daily driver, so I have to be able to get to work after the weekend.

I do think that the r-compounds will put additional strain on your brakes since they will be able to stop your car faster.

I had no brake cooling this season, one set of XP8s lasted 2 track days (in front that is). On both sides the pads against the pistons were bent (!) because they got so hot. Just incredible, I think I actually glazed them badly.

On another note, I do need to work more on my braking technique, but I really tried to be easy on the brakes.
XP10s should be good with the ducts. I spoke to Dustin, we both think that is probably OK. But you need to test the hot heat range to really know. I would seriously consider the bbk (as I am considering as well). I am looking at the one here: http://www.autoxcooper.com/axc_bbk.html. Particularly, I am looking at the mdm kit, 12.2" rotors x 0.81" width, 4 pot calipers, 5 mm spacers, TSW stud kit. Many people with similar kits say the pads last about 10-12 days and they have a much better safety margin. Together with the ducts, you will have almost all you need. The brake pad swap is about 15-20 mins so you can run from lets say XP10 for the street and CT 1521 for the street. And you do not have to do that much of pad breakin!!!

I would use one type/brand of pad (i.e. carbotechs or Hawks or Ferrado etc) for both types because the material should be compatible. So you do not have to swap the rotors as well.

The stock brakes turned purple and have all sorts of stress cracks. I did use them for 22 track days (5 + set of pads). I also melted the rubber bellows for the caliper piston.
 
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Old 01-26-2010, 07:47 AM
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Thanks for the great advice.

A BBK sure feels tempting, but as I said, this car is my daily driver. I would like to keep the mods to a minimum as I'm already head over heels in building / restoring my race car.

Although I don't like being cheap on the brakes category, I do think the brakes (which are already very good on the Mini except for the heat issues) would be improved alot with some cooling ducts to start with.

I already emailed autoxcooper.com, so lets see I we can sort this out. I'll keep you updated on my progress, especially after the first track days!

But keep the good advice coming, this is the most useful thread around so far!
 
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Old 01-26-2010, 09:36 AM
slinger688
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peter s,

Take a look at this thread from a while ago:

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...st-longer.html
 
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Old 01-26-2010, 05:50 PM
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I use the Wilwood 11.75" kit up front...

http://www.tceperformanceproducts.co...s.pl?record=13

No brake ducts on my car. I've used two sets of Hawk DTC70's in two years which consisted of about 20 track days. Costs is about $100/set from TCE. WGI & LRP saw most of my running, mostly The Glen. Monticello South once...Pad changes are very easy and quick with this kit..

They work awesome and I hadn't experienced any fade, ever..

I run 225/45/15 R6's...on 949 15 x 7.5" rims..

Hawk HP+ out back which are left on all the time.

HT10's for street driving and they will most likely last the life of the car as I don't do much street driving in it unfortunately, until I get a track car.

Rotors have numerous stress cracks but not out at the edges. Rotors still well within recommended thickness so I'm wondering just when they actually need to be changed out. I do have a new set here ready to go and since the car sees no winter abuse things come apart pretty easy still so the change over will go quick.
 
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Old 01-26-2010, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by slinger688 View Post
S-driver,

That may not happen as of right now. Being asked to unretire to help out a friend.
Sounds just like our friend Sherm....
 

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