I was just wondering if the brake pads on a BBK (such as Brembo) last longer than pads on regular Mini Calipers/rotors. I have talked to only a few people with BBK and their pads seem to longer than what I am used to on my stock calipers/rotors.

 

You already know this but mine lasted almost a full season. I can add up the number of days, but it was over 12, for sure. But you know how easy I am on my brakes!

 

The brake pads for the Wilwood FSL Calipers that I am using with 13" x 0.81" front rotors are almost twice as thick as the stock pads. So, if for no other reason than the edded thickness, I expect them to take a lot longer to wear out than stock pads.

If you are really hard on the stock brakes, such as track days, the larger area pads and reduced heat of a BBK will last a longer than stock sized pads, assuming similar compounds.

 

a larger diameter doesn't need as much frictional force to get the same amount of braking.

A larger area doesn't take as much force per unit area to get the same amount of braking.

A thicker pad has more usable depth...

Compound can really make a lot of difference.

So, to get a full answer to your question really depends on all of these. That said I think for most use situations, yes, a BBK will have longer pad life than stock... But it's not a universal answer.

Matt

 

I have three sets of pads for my Wilwoods...Poly B's, Poly H's, and BP-10s

Poly B's for track, which have only seen one track day and still have tons of life, Poly H's for autox which have seen I think 7 so far and still have about 3/4 of their life left plus I've left them on for the street for weeks at a time. Then the BP-10s for my normal every day driving which I think still have at least 3/4 of their life left. I've had the brakes for nearly a year now, part of getting the pads to last so long is that I have the correct compounds for the situation. So the pads are not being pushing out of their limits. It helps a lot...and besides, stock Mini brakes are severely lacking.

 

Thanks so much for all your responses. I do believe, with the same pad material, that the bbk brakes could last longer than regular brakes. VV and s-driver both have bbks and their brakes seem to last a much longer time than my stock one. I am just trying to do the economics to see if it is worthwhile to invest in a BBK.

 

Carbotech pads have a reputation of a longer life regardless if you are talking about street pads or race pads.

 

When I needed to replace the brakes the first time on my first MCS (at about 30,000), I did a cost study (big spreadsheet) based on having the car for at least 100,000 miles. I compared various "good quality" aftermarket stock size brake options to StopTech and Wilwood BBKs. I assumed I would replace the pads every 25,000 miles and rotors every 50,000 miles (cyro rotor every 75,000). I planned a rotor resurface when the rotor was not replaced. I also figured in such items as caliper bushings, stud kit, ss lines, and fluid which were applied to the various options where applicable. I did figure on expensive stock size pads. Even without considering how much longer the BBK pads would wear compared to stock size pads, I found in the long run it was cheaper to get a Wilwood BBK. When I purchased the TCE/Wilwood BBK, the larger rear rotor upgrade was free (Todd will do that same sale every once and a while).

 

and has good prices. It's true that the stock pad size makes for some expensive pad replacements. Good job on the lifetime costs... Did you use present value of the money in the spread sheet?

Matt

 

Yes, I used present value with the assumption that the costs of the various brake replacement parts (pads, rotors) would escalate at a similar rate.

 

I've looked at some numbers as well and for someone that plans to keep a given MINI for 3-5 plus years and or track it 10 plus days a year/season would find a savings in brake parts during the 3rd year on avg.

Just my 2 cents. The Key to that savings is keeping the same car and or BBK for more then 2 or 3 years and running 10 plus days a year/season.

 

I have a similar but different objective which is more economical track days.

This is what I know so far about just the pad life, from comments by S-driver and veggivet, who uses BBKs.

BBK (like Brembo with Brembo track pads, I do not know the exact pad), last about 10-12 track days.

XP12, running in advanced group, like VV and SD, I get perhaps 4 days.

Lets look only at the fronts, with rough calculations.
Pad cost is $193 for stock but only $161 for BBK for CT XP12s, plus $15 shipping for each pad.
For 12 days, that would be:
Stock 3x193=579+45 ship = $624
BBK 1x161=161+15 ship = $176

Diff is $448 per 10-12 track days. (I will use 12 days or $37.33 per track day)

At my pace of approx 18-20 track days a year, for a $1400 BBK, my breakeven is 37.5 days of track or for me 1.875 to 2.1 years, all else equal and the assumptions on pad wear hold.

 

Looks like you are doing a good job of justifying to yourself that a BBK is a sound investment.

 

Till the pad hits the rotor on the track, then who knows.

It would be great to see what track life others get on their BBK pads.

 

great numbers Slinger, it's a moving target for each person based on how long they plan to keep the car, how many track days they run and how fast they wear out pads.
While you get about 4 days out of a set I have other that get 2 days and others that get 6 plus days.
If you are going to keep your R56S for 3 plus years and keep the same track pace then a BBK would be a good investment.

 

And that last comment is coming from a guy who is not a huge fan of BBK, by his own admission.

 

I've not been a big promoter of BBK's because they are not "needed" by most street MINI's. As for track clients most will not see the same ROI as Slinger due to his heavy track use.

I have sold BBK's and will still sell them I just want to make sure my clients are getting what they need not just want they were talked into.

The OEM brakes work very well with the right pads and are still a good value for the once a month track event client.

 

Depending on the kit you get, you can get more brake capacity, lower unsprung weight and without a doubt, cheaper pads!

As far as track work, if it's just based on that, go with whatch got till it doesn't work for you. I've found almost everyone who can do deep braking run out of brakes with the stock set up pretty fast.

Matt

 

For me, the decision is coming down to economics. I will need five sets of brake pads per season/year for the regular brakes or two sets with the BBK. BTW, I think that stock brakes are generally fine if you do not have r-comps. Having brake cooling ducts on my car may be helpful as well (I do not really know as I did not have any brake fade).

But the fitment of the wheels now worries me. Looks like my "new" (bought used) Rota Slipstreams 16x7 are not going to work.

 

Slinger how much longer is the ROI on the BBK once you add the cost of wheels and or stud kit if needed?

 

I'm pretty sure those wheels won't work with a BBK.

 

I am on the cheap looking for some used wheels right now. I am thinking that I will trade the old wheels in (sell it used) and the new ones would probably net out to only 6-8 months (depending on the what I find) to the breakeven.

Veggivet, you are right about those Rotas. Won't fit. I cut out the fitment templates (from Dustin) and measured. I think there will not be any good BBKs that fit those wheels. I would like to stick with lighter 16" wheels as the tires can be a llittle less expensive as well. I can run through two to three sets of those a season too.

 

I think I missed this discussion somehow. Good question.

All other things being equal; the pad with more cubic inches will last longer. Pretty simple stuff.

Where it gets messy is when you alter the variables.....
Pad wear by compound, rotor size, driving conditions come to mind.

Because the conversation is on BBKs, the fit of a larger rotor can mean that the pad has to work less hard to provide the same total torque and thus the pads wear longer. But not all pads in a BBK are larger to begin with and most are of the more spirited nature- perhaps making it a wash. Some have far more cubic inches of material but are put into driving applications the stock system would have given up on so while durable, wear may not be all that much more.

There's no magic here. Brake performance gains are usually factored in terms of durability more than one stop. The BBK produces the same result repeatedly and if it has a larger rotor (or more cubic pad) the net result is longer life in many cases. Not all of course as elevated driving styles and track days can eat up pads quick.

In the big scheme of things; I never suggest a BBK simply for longer pad life. I'd back myself in a corner to easily on that.