have you got any means of logging your boost? at what point in the rpm range do you start spraying? (at what psi?) and then where in the revs have you set it to spray at full? I've just ordered the kit from Dustin so am interested in your findings. Like you, my kit is not for power as such, mainly just to keep the IAT's down

 

Seems to work well if you set it to come on about 5psi and max at about 11psi.

I don't have any datalogging equipment - but I have a Scanguage - so I watch boost and IAT's in real-time.

 

My checkvalve stuck open a few weeks back - I could tell because the car was flooding at low speed and high vacuum, and it was sucking my reservoir dry quickly - pulled off the checkvalve and yep... open. Took it apart and didn't find anything wrong with it, and it's worked fine ever since.

But to eliminate this problem in the future, and to improve the dynamic range of the system, I replace the check valve with the Devil's Own solenoid today. One side of the solenoid goes to ground, the other side taps into the blue wire from the controller - so whenever the pump is running, the solenoid is open. I stuck the solenoid on the side of my JCW airbox using 3M tape and installed sealed spade terminals so it's easy to unplug when I remove the airbox top.

I could actually tell from my IATs that the system is spraying better at the lower boost ranges with the solenoid (and it should). With the checkvalve, the pump has to first overcome the cracking pressure of the valve (about 20 psi) before the mist starts. With the solenoid, all the pump pressure can be used to make mist... so more dynamic range. Good stuff.

I also wired in an on/off switch - put it just to the left of my DO controller on the edge of my parcel shelf - so it's easy to switch the whole thing off when cruising on the highway - since the MINI spends a lot of time under moderate boost when you're cruising at speed, but you really don't want to be pumping meth that whole time (or at least, I don't...). Just cut the red wire to the controller, add some spade lugs and plug into the switch - just works!

 

Brilliant stuff...w/m works!!! especially where I am....what % of w/m did you fill in your system?

Im spraying w/m at 8psi and 13psi....havent tried 5psi and 11psi thou...but i would assume that I'll be emptying the tank more quickly as Im always flooring my car...

 

I'm running 30-35% meth typically - plain old blue -20F washer fluid which is easy to get and cheap here. Plan to buy some pure meth and play around with mixes, including pure water and pure meth, later this summer. For cooling only (my objective) pure water may win in high temps... we'll see.

 

Havent tried pure water myself but it has been known that it's better at cooling IATs then meth...but if we use pure water only...I guess we'll lose the higher octane that the meth gives...

Ive tried 25%, 30%, 50% and 100% mix...and im using around 35% mix at the moment...cant see and feel any benefits going any higher..plus pure meth is quite expensive here..600ml for USD$1.20..

 

How can you have too much water but not methnol? How much money is this system? Can you spray in the supercharger intake?It seems I read that the water/steam would make a perfect rotor seal.Maybe a very small nozzle there and rest of the spray in the IC discharge

 

Water does not compress as does meth. Too much water and you could hydro lock your engine.

Randy
M7 Tuning

 

I do not think I'm going to inject any amount of any liquid to get a point of hydro locking. The misting jets are in the .00X" ranges.
Has anyone used the Aquamist systems?
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/cp/806-009/806-009.html

 

If you just inject water you will loose hp.

Rule of thumb more meth% more hp...but some pumps can't handle 100% meth.

This is my set up...

 

Hmmm..... water has a significantly higher heat of vaporization than meth... so, for a given volume of liquid, water will have a significantly greater cooling effect. True that meth does provide some octane, but if you're spraying enough meth for the octane value to actually materialize, they you're impacting fueling also and the car would need to be tuned for the mix... the original water injection systems only used meth so the water wouldn't freeze in cold temps...

So... that's the theory... I'd love to see some dyno charts of various mixes on the same untuned car, with all else being equal.... I'm too lazy to do it myself.

 

I played around with different concentrations and found that I lost hp with only water when compared to higher concentrations of meth.
With the tune we also found 100% meth made more power....

 

Cool!
No surprise with the tune... but a little surprising without.

 

I was under the impression that methanol actually works better than water when it comes to cooling due to its lower vaporization pressure.
I notice a difference when I run 100% meth compared to 50% just from the scanguage

 

Meth vaporizes more easily - but absorbs less heat when it does. If you have better IATs with meth vs. water, it MIGHT mean that your nozzles and/or pump pressure aren't atomizing the water sufficiently... so they're blowing bigger droplets, which will evaporate when they are high meth concentration, but won't evaporate when they're pure water - this would both raise temps and reduce HP as you are seeing.... theoretically... mind you, I'm still learning this stuff, so don't take anything I say as gospel....

 

Update on pump in the DO kit. It's now at 250psi pump.

 

is this what I have Dustin?

(Lee)

 

Hi Lee, you do have the 250 pump, that's why it didn't ship right away, we waited on the 250 pump for your kit.

 

Yummy - might have to upgrade mine... just because.

 

So what concentrations of w/m are you running Damien? Hmmm..I think I should increase my concentrations to 50/50 for a tank or two...see how that pans out...

 

We were playing around with a water injection system for a brief time in 03 and found that we also lost power with 100% water. We were most likely getting too much in but as we were on the dyno for another product and were only testing the injection system as a sideline and didn't get a chance to try a smaller nozzle. I went with the 100% meth program based on information given to me by both associates that run very high power cars , 700+ , and the provider of my system. I am just using it to benefit the engine with the cooling properties and am not looking for the last few hp in the motor. I know that I can run 100% meth and the motor will be happier for it Dman has most likely the most tuning time under his belt with regards to Mini's and meth injection than anyone on here and is a much better source for you all than I am .

Randy
M7 Tuning

 

So you are vaporising more meth v water over any given time period. Although it absorbs less heat you are vaporising more which in the long run makes it more effective at cooling.
Here are some calculations I found on the web of how much water v methanol will be vaporised per minute.


Water injection:
0.40 lb/min of water will vaporize, cooling the air down from 150 F to 109 F.

Methanol:
100%: 1.08 lb/min of methanol will vaporize, cooling the air from 150 F to 96 F.
50%: 0.55 lb/min of methanol/water will vaporize, cooling the air from 150 F to 107 F

I played around with just about every type of jet I could get
I found the Devils own were the best , and yes jet size makes more of a difference than meth concentration.
When you change meth concentrations jet sizes make a difference also.
I spent heaps of time testing alot of different variables.
But in the end all cars are different due to mods, tune etc so what may work on my car optimally may not work on another.

 

Very, very cool - good info - THANKS!

Of course, this means that for the higher meth concentrations, you need to either use a larger nozzle or run the pump at higher speed/pressure to pump more liquid to achieve these volumes... and you'll run through you're supply much more rapidly - yes?

 

No problem, when running 100% meth a larger nozzle is preferable , and you do go through more

Also not all pumps can handle 100% meth that is why some manufacturers only recommend 50/50 mix.

 

This is great....this thread is very helpful for everyone who's running w/m injection...

fyi, im using the M1 nozzle @ 200psi....just added 60% meth/40% water last night but havent tested how the car performs yet...

will be getting a few nozzles from DO in the future...