Did the Justas that did so well in HS at SCCA Nationals wear 15s, or 16s?

The weight difference between OEM 15s and 16s is significant. Of course, entrants aren't restricted to OEM rims; just to OEM diameters and widths (and the allowed 1/4" offset difference). That means 15X5.5" versus 16X6.5". I just saw on line a 15X5.5" Volk for the MC that weighed 8#, and there may be some even lighter than that. It seems to me that it would be very hard for 16s to overcome the 15's weight advantage with only a 1" width advantage.

If you can answer that, you probably also know what size Hoosiers they wore as well. No, I'm not going to try to follow in their footsteps; I'm just wondering enough to bother people.

Thanks.

 

I'd bet that the ability to better fit a wider tire on the 16x6.5" would more than trump the rolling/unsprung weight advantage that a 15x5.5" wheel would give.

If value for money is at all a concern, it's hard to beat a set of 16x6.5" ET45 Rota Slipstreams. That's what I went for after failing to find the curbed up set of X-Lites that I spent a winter looking for.

The pictures that I have seen of nationally competitive HS MINIs have all shown too-rich-for-my-blood 16" SSR wheels.

 

Thanks for responding. I had about given up on ever getting a response on the HS forum.

I was thinking that the lightness of the 15s might have the advantage over the wider 16s, but if the HS leaders at Nationals are running 16s, that should settle it.

I had noticed that the X-Lites you searched for are about the lightest early OEM 16" wheel, at about 17.6#. The 6.5X16" R102 S-winders ('07 and later) are about 17.4#. The Rota Slipsteams you got are listed at 13.5#, so there's about 4# of savings per wheel compared to the X-Lites. I don't know what the SSRs weigh. My wife's MC has R83 5-Star (Daytona) which weigh about 20#. I can't remember all this, but I have written notes.

If you don't mind spending more time, I'd also like to know how those HS drivers deal with the front camber-challenged MC without using camber plates. Maybe you had to deal with the same problem.

My wife and I autocrossed a '64 Austin MC 1275 S back in the early '70s. Last fall she bought an '06 MC as her 2nd car. It's an automatic (CVT to boot), so I don't have any designs on autocrossing that one, but have considered getting my own MC manual for HS. I've been autocrossing mostly Porsches for over 20 years. My A Stock Cayman S is also front camber-challenged (-1.0 max), and I run R-comps or RE11s on OEM rims.

 

There is a plastic pin you can remove from the front struts to get about 1/4 more negative camber. You're left with the ability to change the front anti-sway bar and shocks to balance the handling.

I've done nothing to mine except fit it with 16" Slipstreams and Dunlop Star Specs. With the factory sport suspension and three pounds less in the rear than front I have neutral handling. I don't want to travel and there is no one pushing me locally so I may never start down the slippery slop of modifying it.

I suspect a 205/45-16 Hoosier A6 on 16x6.5's can more than make up for a few pounds compared to a 205/50-15 A6 on 15x5.5's. The diameter is the same, the sidewall is 1/2 inch shorter, and the wheel width is only one inch shy of maximum instead of two.

 

My notes say the SSR type C weighed 11.5 lbs., cost $269, and is no longer made. The Slipstreams cost $500 for 4 from 18racing.com. Ignore the inventory numbers on site as they don't update them.

R81 7-hole Imolas (or "Holies") are a coveted 15" OEM wheel that weighs 12 lbs. My local dismantler has them for $85. Pictures and more data on OEM wheels here: http://www.mini2.com/forum/faq.php?f...heel_tire_tech

dismantler: http://www.usedminicooperparts.com/

If I was doing it over and certain I would stick with street tires I would go with the holies and 205/50-15 Kumho Ecsta XS. Saves money, weighs 4.5 lbs less per corner, and reduces the diameter an inch.

I autocrossed Lotus Elans for 15 years. The Mini is more fun.

 

Thanks for the very helpful information.

I've read about the plastic pin on NAM, but on MCS posts, so I didn't know that the MC had the pins too.

I understand your reluctance to start modifying (your "down the slippery slop" might have been intentional). I ran ASP for about 8 years, but now like running in stock; it's easier, cheaper, and I still get to drive to my own and the car's limits. The MC also seems quite competitive in HS.

I was looking at the SSR C Type online (saw 11.3# and MSRP of $460). I didn't know that they were no longer made. The 12# OEM Imolas ("Holies") are also in my notes, but I haven't seen a price anywhere near that low. I've been using the mini2 OEM wheels page, but the dismantler site you gave is new to me.

Re your Elan; as I recall, in the early '70s I ran my Austin MC 1275 S against Elans and 911s in SCCA events. I also ran a Datsun 510 in ES. We could compete in multiple classes at regionals then, and could also have 1" wider than OEM wheels in stock classes. Now we have to keep the narrow wheels, but get to drive on R-comps. Hard to figure.

 

The majority of SCCA HS National level competitors run the lightest 16 x 6.5 they can get their hands on and afford. A few guys have tried and use the 15 inch combination and have had some luck also.
I agree with the wider platform of the 16's.
Either way go out and have fun and enjoy.

Good luck in 2010!

Keith
2010 MINI Cooper HS

 

Would removing that plastic pin be stock legal?
I guess it would be if MINI recommends it as an "official" way to do an alignment, if not, it might not be stock legal. What do you think?

 

rwkeating: I don't know the answer to your question, but surely that's been officially settled one way or the other by now. From what I've read, one might not even be able to set both sides to the same modest (less than 1) degree without pulling pins.

My thinking is similar to yours. If the MINI workshop manual says to pull pins to get more aggressive camber settings, I would think it would be legal. If, instead, there is no mention of the "fix" anywhere official, I would think it wouldn't be legal.

 

Yes - removing the guide pin is SCCA Stock class legal.
Allows factory approved adjustments withing the range the factory authorized.

Have fun!

Keith R
2010 MINI Cooper HS

 

Wheeeee!

 

One of those 15" wheeled HS MCs shod with 225/45/15 Hoosiers was a hoot to watch at the Danville (VA) airport AX last weekend. It was driven by Jim Feinberg, Dave Spratte, and Gwen Baake. Gwen was the only one to drive the MC both days, thus becoming both Virginia State Autocross Champion and Virginia Commonwealth Games Champion in Ladies (PAX) class.

Those events attract a tougher crowd than I'm used to running with, and I've never seen so many drivers in MINIs (8), Miatas (too many to count), and karts (7) at a single event before.

 

FWIW a GREAT budget wheel and tire option is what I"m running on. Tire Rack sells a light 16x6.5 wheel that fits ALL the 02-11 coopers and cooper S models...and its stock legal.

at $114 per wheel and 14.4lbs they are only 3lbs heavier than the ssr comps and the same weight as the rotas.

as for tires I"m on a 205/50-16 hankook z214. They're only $149 a tire...a GREAT budget combo.

Total shipped for both M&B is about $1150-1200


As for the 15s...Joe Austin runs on them but I don't think they are the hot setup for a front running nationally competitive car. Trophies are possible but winning IMO is out of the question on 15s.

HOWEVER....Hoosier now has a new wet tire in a 225/45-15....so that's the only reason IMO to own 15s.

 

That's budget racing on R-comps alright, and the TRM C1 wheels actually look pretty good. If TR sells them, they should be strong enough.

 

Out of curiosity, to what wheel are you referring?

I just had a new set of Z214s mounted in preparation for my club's annual big pavement event (the former Loring AFB in Limestone, Maine...B-52 runways!). I had a set in the C50 compound that I bought when they were being liquidated a couple of years ago ($75 each). They were quite good IF it was warm and sunny and terrible if it wasn't (for autocross at least), so I am really excited to see how the C71s perform. FYI, mine edge corded with the center grooves just to the wear bars and the outside dots less than to the half-way marks. It sucked throwing away this set of tires with four shoulders that had basically never touched pavement. Don't be greedy when deciding on the right time to flip them.

 

this wheel:



http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/Wheel...t+Grey+Painted

 

Just out of curiosity, do you still hold the opinion that you can't win on the 15's? I heard that the National Championship winning Mini this year was indeed on 15's. Can anybody else confirm this?

From all accounts, they just started running the car a few weeks before Nationals due to car troubles with their regular car. Maybe they just didn't know any better? Was the car really an '04 or was that a typo? From the pictures I saw, it looked like a newer model. Anybody know anything about their setup?

I also heard that Joe Austin switched to his 15's during his last run after seeing their results. Can anybody confirm that as well?

I'm trying to figure out my options for next year as I just started running an HS Mini myself.

Thanks!

Charles

 

Charles: I'm still wondering the same thing you are. I can't confirm that they ran that MINI on 15s at Nationals, but the same three people ran the MINI at Nationals that ran it on 15s at Danville (see post #12 above). Tires at Danville were 225/45/15 Hoosiers.

Specifically: Jim Feinberg just finished 1st in HS at Nationals, Dave Spratte finished 4th, and Gwen Baake finished 2nd in HSL; all driving the same blue MINI. BTW, the blue MINI they drove at Danville was listed as an '09 (and looked the part), while their Nationals MINI was listed as an '04.

 

Jim and Dave were in an 09. I never saw joe austin run anything but the 16s.

We brought 4 tires but should have had 6 like most others did...I flat out ran out of grip on day 2 LOL (talent was nowhere to be seen from me all week so it was not lost lol).


Jim flat out outdrove us all. Period. He would have won on the 16s as well. The 225s had the ultimate grip over the 205s even on a 1" narrower wheel. AND he was running a staggered setup as well I believe (205 rears). Problem with the 16s...we can't do that and keep a short OD front tire.


Now if hoosier does a 225/45 or 40 16...then things will be interesting

 

I recently saw photos from Nationals, and the blue HS MC that Jim, Dave, and Gwen drove there appears to be the same one they all drove so successfully at Danville in July; same color, same stickers, etc. My guess is that it's Gwen's car, but Jim and Dave might be converts by now. There might be a few 15" wheel/tire converts as well.

The 2-day Danville AX was both the Commonwealth Games Championship, and the VA State AX Championship, so it drew several of the usual top Nationals suspects; and MINIs did well at Danville. In addition to the HS top spots, drivers in MINIs took DS, SMF, and our regional TIRE class based on PAX.

 

Interesting. Thanks for the updates guys.

I heard from a 3rd party that they did some tire testing at the setup day prior to a regional event just before Nationals. I don't know what they were testing or what the results were but it sounded like they made a bunch of runs while swapping tires & wheels back and forth.

Clearly they know something...

I'll have to keep an eye on the NC clubs to see what events they are running. Hopefully I can catch them at an event to get some more information.

Charles

 

Try North Carolina Region SCCA, but mostly Triad Sports Car Club.

I checked both event photos again. That MC wore 6-spoke wheels at Danville, but 7-hole (Imola) wheels (12#) at Nationals.

 

Subscribed for a newly minted MINI convert!

 

I keep reading that people either had or wished they had 6 tires in Nebraska. We had two drivers in our car and not once did either of us ever say "I wish we had more grip". If anything, I wish we had brought the Kuhmos to keep from binding the car up while FULL THROTTLE and slowing the car. We left tons of time in Nebraska and most of it was due to incredible grip levels and not testing on A6's before heading to the event(our fault. Won't happen again!). Everyone was scrambling to remove the OPR off the rear tires between runs. We left it on and found a bit more rotation, lol.

Hope to see everyone in Cecil at the start of next season!

 

Any re-thoughts on this topic?