We are in the process of negotiating the price of a Mini Cooper S Convertible from one of our local Mini dealerships. The target vehicle is in Oxford and has not yet shipped. We didn't specifically order this Mini, but it happened that it was available to be shipped and we have to option to commit to it and get delivery fairly quickly.

We have $1500 in upfront discounts that have been applied to the dealership's proposed sale to us, and I'm trying to understand how those upfront discounts might be affected by incentives that could be available at the time of delivery.

It seems to make sense (to me) that if we have negotiated discounts offered to us up front, and further incentives might be available at the time of delivery, those incentives should be added to the already-negotiated discounts.

I asked the salesman (a rather young guy, for what it's worth) about this and was told that it was an "either/or" situation. That is, we would get whatever represented the best deal for us -- either the upfront discounts or the incentives at the time of delivery, but not both.

Is the salesman correct? Or can we reasonably ask for both the negotiated upfront discounts and any incentives that might be available at delivery?

I haven't bought a new vehicle in quite a few years, so I'm in somewhat unfamiliar territory.

Thanks in advance for any help/advice in this.

Al

 

By the way, we are in a position with this purchase to make it a cash purchase (not something we've ever done before). I wonder if that helps us...or could potentially hurt us in terms possible negotiations. .

 

You can ask for whatever you want. MINI sales are in the dumps so they should be anxious to sell you a car. Cash sales are a loser to the dealership as they don't make the finance commissions. Finance it and then pay it off ASAP if you want to play the game.

 

Hmmm...so I wonder if we went the financing route and just paid it off quickly (assuming no penalties for doing so) if it could end up being beneficial to both us and the dealership. I'm all for win-win situations when I can go that route.

 

I think the sales dept. (maybe incl the MA) gets some "credit" if you finance the car through the dealership. Not sure how much you can get taken off your price. Remember that a big chunk of dealerships' profits from car deals comes from your trade-in not the new car. So if there's no trade (to rape you on) they only have maybe 15% to play with.

 

In talking to her about it, it looks like my wife would rather just pay cash and get it over with (after we finish negotiating, that is).

And yeah, we're not likely to do a trade-in either, with the more-than-likely attempt to screw us out of value in what we own and the associated feeling of being insulted by the offer. In the past, I've always sold my own vehicles to get best possible value back.

We take very good care of our cars and trucks, and they seem to always command top bluebook value or very close to it in the private seller market. We've got a 2007 Acura MDX that we're going to sell after we get the Mini to help defray overall cost of the new car purchase, I could likely ask an over bluebook value for it due to its obvious condition, our own collection of maintenance files, and CarFax reports that show pretty darn meticulous maintenance record. Those things add up for discerning prospective buyers when you, as a seller, are not forced by financial pressure to sell immediately or trade in and can take your time selling a good vehicle privately. The high-end, private seller bluebook on the '07 MDX is right at $9,000, I can likely fairly easily get $8,000, but I bet we'd be offered less than $5,000 in trade-in. I'd rather take the extra $3-4k from a private party sale and use that money elsewhere. Now, if I asked at the dealership and they offered $7,500 we might take it so as not to have to hassle with selling privately...but what's the likelihood of getting that good an offer? Probably pretty slim, I have to guess.

 

Back to my original question, does anyone have experience with accepting a dealer offer that incorporates specific discounts, having to wait a while for vehicle delivery to the dealership and then also being able to take advantage of whatever applicable manufacturer incentives that are in effect at the time delivery is made?

We are just about ready to agree to the dealer offer (probably in the next couple of days) but will likely not take delivery of the Mini until sometime in April,. At the time of delivery, there may be manufacturer incentives available. If there ARE extra incentives available at the time of delivery, would we as the buyers be eligible to have those also applied to our deal in addition to the already agreed upon discounts that we have coming?

I'm sure lots of buyers have been in this same situation. I'm wondering how the scenario played out for anyone who went through the same thing.

 

You said in your original post that the you have upfront discounts in addition to the dealer's proposal. If by that you mean that you negotiated a selling price apart from incentives, and the "upfront discounts" are the incentives that you are then applying to your already negotiated price, then I wouldn't think you would be able to get any new incentives on top of the current incentives (or "upfront discounts"). With other brands, you negotiate a price and can only get whatever incentives are available at the time of delivery. I've heard of some MINI dealers giving people the option of choosing whichever incentives are best, the ones when they ordered or the ones in place at the time of delivery (assuming delivery within 60 days). They might be able to do this because they still have wiggle room after negotiation the final price, but I'm just guessing. Either way, I've never heard of someone getting both. Don't know if that helps or not.

 

@dsw13, yes that helps.

We don't actually have extra discounts in addition to the dealership proposal to us. I'm referring to the the actual discounts offered in the dealership proposal.

The sales person told us that the upfront discounts (what the Mini dealership is labeling as "Preferred Customer Discounts" on their proposal to us) and any manufacturer incentives that might be offered at the time we take delivery represent an "either/or" scenario. That is, we can choose whichever one that gives us the better deal. We can choose either the Preferred Customer Discounts that have been built into the dealership proposal OR the manufacturer incentives that are in effect at the time of delivery, whichever is the better of the two.

Current incentives, which we would be able to take advantage of if we were taking delivery now through April 1, would give us $1750 off the price. The dealership preferred customer discounts that are being offered in their proposal total $1500, so not too far off even if we could take the current incentives (which we can't).

If the incentives at the time of delivery are better than $1500, we can take the incentives. If they are not better than $1500, we can take the $1500 deal in the current dealership proposal.

My question was whether we could take advantage of both, and it sounds like the answer is most likely "No." It's apparently one or the other as the salesman stated to us. But that's exactly what I was looking to find out (whether the salesman's statement to us was correct), so it looks like I have an answer.

Thanks! Very helpful.

Al

 

Did you see this thread? https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...-the-deal.html

A great read for buying a new car.

 

They should get some credit if you finance through them which then they try to beat the price other banks give you by like 1/2% or something. That will save some money for you in the end. Most MINI dealerships back in the day might throw in free floor mats, but those are standard now i believe. They would also throw in some free swag or maybe one accessory if you are lucky.

 

Dealerships make very little on new car sales (think $300-$500). Margins on used vehicles are much higher (think $2,000+). Their business model targets revenue primarily from financing and maintenance/repairs. If you're not financing the car, it should be a relatively quick negotiation. Look up "Black Book Car Values" on the Interweb. It will give you the exact dealer cost of any vehicle and you'll be in a better position to negotiate (the dealer will try to tell you it's not correct but that's BS). Though there is a purchase cost you will recoup it when negotiating with the dealer. If I'm not mistaken Kelley Blue Book also offers this service.

 

Oh, and say "no" to all the silly dealer add-ons, like paint protection, undercoating, extended warranties, et al.

 

^^ forgot about those. Great point.

 

Yes, thank you. I spent quite a bit of time going through bits and pieces of that one over the last couple of days. Lots of great info and food for thought. @2017All4 really knows his stuff and is very good at putting his knowledge into writing (a nice gift to have). A very good read with solid contributions by other members, too.

Given that, I sure appreciate the link. If I hadn't seen it, it would be one of those on the must-read list that I missed.

Al

 

The two things that I see on the list as "dealer added accessories" are nitrogen for tires at $189 and window tint at $395.

OK, so I've never had run-flat tires on any vehicle I've owned. Is the initial nitrogen fill something that is actually needed and for which they typically charge to the buyer? Seems sketchy. Seems unnecessary. I'm inclined to scratch nitrogen from the list..but it's not something I've really studied.

Window tinting. If the vehicle does not come with tint, I'd certainly want it to. Thoughts on window tint at $395 as a dealer add-in?

Thanks!

Al

 

Nitrogen expands/contracts less than oxygen but is totally unneeded and just one of the ways the dealer attempts to garner a higher profit. My guess would be that they don't actually insert the nitrogen until after the vehicle is sold but before it's delivered. As far as window tinting, remember the dealer is working as a broker and not installing the tint themselves. They simply farm it out to a shop and upcharge you for it. A couple of quick phone calls to your local tint shops will let you know the market cost. Again, don't forget that the dealer makes very little on the actual sale of a new vehicle, hence all the additional attempted "add-ons" to increase their profit at the expense of your wallet. Good luck!

 

Oh, and you'll want to lose the run-flats ASAP. Most everyone on this forum has switched to normal non-run-flat tires simply because the RFs have a TERRIBLE ride. Join AAA or carry a tire patch kit and a small 12-volt compressor in the car. You and your butt will thank me for it.

 

Yeah, I'm inclined to just say no to the nitrogen. To the best of my knowledge (which is admittedly weak on this topic), I think it's not only unnecessary, thus an unnecessary expense, but also more of a hassle to obtain service (if/when needed and compared to using my own air compressor).

On the tint, unless it's a really big difference in price...and depending on the quality and other attributes of the tint they propose...I might be inclined to have it done at the dealership just so we don't have to deal with it after taking delivery. I'll have to look at that a little more closely.

 

On the run-flats, I'm going on the assumption there's no choice on the initial build for the 2019 models...or am I wrong about that? The one we're likely getting is already configured, so I think there's no choice for us in the matter, at least on what we'll have coming. I'm guessing that the folks who switch do so after the originals need replacing. (?)

 

You have to decide if you can live with the ride quality of the run flats. the people that hate it usually replace them as soon as possible. You could put them up for sale.

As for the incentives, I would negotiate a discount plus whatever incentives are available at time of delivery. If you don't like the deal, walk out. There's other dealers that will be willing to make a deal. You might have to travel a bit further.

 

$395 for tint isn't that bad if its the good stuff and they offer a lifetime warranty on it. I always went for the cheap coupon tint jobs but this time went full ceramic on the wife's CM cause we're keeping it forever. Man what a difference on the inside almost no heat, definitely going that route when I get my JCW.

 

Good points on the quality tint. I'm going to have a conversation with the dealership about what tint they use and what choices we have in the exact tint/quality. I'll get them to send me the specs on what they use and see how it compares to what we'd want. Thanks for your thoughts on that, @bluonyx.

 

FWIW, nitrogen in the tires is a money-maker for the dealer with no discernable benefit to the owner. Scientifically, there may be a difference, but not worth the cost- and the cost continues with tire repair and maintenance. As far as the dealer add-ons, we bit the bullet and bought the maintenance plan for our 2017 Buick Envision. At around $700, it paid for itself in a few months when we hit a chunk of limestone in the road and broke a wheel. It continued to pay when we had another incident and ruined a tire with a large nail. I hate to admit we even ponied up for the paint protection, and although it does allow just about all grime to rinse off, I probably wouldn't do it again.

I agree with the suggestion to finance the car thru the dealership (just continue to say "that's not good enough" to the incentives until your certain you've milked them all and got the lowest possible out-the door price) and pay it off with your cash in a month or two (after ascertaining that there is no early pay penalty).

Good luck, I'm following your progress as we may be heading down that road soon (pun intended!)

 

1. Nitrogen vs. Atmosphere (70%+ Nitrogen already). Moneymaking scam to replace lost undercoating revenues, have I dated my age?. I recall some tire shops doing free Nitrogen fills with new tires. Now I see some will give you special caps marked so you know you have been scammed. If it is free and you have a source for it continually a slight benefit probably according to the literature.

2. Run Flat hysteria. A common topic and I really doubt the above quoted post saying that most people switch them out. I did on one car and the ride and noise difference was not enough for me to declare it a big deal. That was a Countryman so don't know what it will do on the smaller Vert. I'd wait till RF's are worn and then find someone with non RF's and swap cars to see whats what.

3. Tints - ha, we need more sunlight here in the PNW.