Last week I took part in a paid “Mini Cooper Focus Group”. There were 7 people present (including myself) three women and four men. We were all current R56/55/57 (2nd Gen) owners, and either this was our first Mini, or been R50/53 owners. We were asked questions as to what we liked about the car (interior, exterior, tech, features, why we are Mini owners, how ownership took place).. as well as what we disliked about the car (same list as before..). We all took turns, roundtable, answering the questions. I and the other men knew about the F56, had seen it at a car show, and generally knew about it (readers of Motoring file, forums, “car guys”, etc..), the women on the other hand had no idea there was even a new model out (I’m not trying to be offensive here, they were just happy current Mini owners).

There were two cars under covers in the same room as us.

The host said “lets go look at a car..”. We got up, he pulled the cover off, it was an F56.

The car was pepper white, black top, black hood stripes, black wheels. A base “cooper”, still nicely loaded (as the base cars come). “Radio” center console (versus Nav), black interior.

“Have a look around, sit in it, open it up..” said the host.

Everyone took a turn sitting in it, remarked about the missing speedometer, - and how the dash looked like a jumbled mess. On the upside, everyone loved the seats, and the quality of the interior “felt” better. Bigger boot area (deeper well) was a plus.

On the exterior, the women were horrified to see the front end. It had that awful black center bumper in its “fish mouth” as one man called it.

We all then were asked to sit down, and talk about what we liked/disliked about the F56.

All three women said they hated it. They hated the dash, they hated the nose. The only thing everyone liked was the new door handles. Only one of the men “liked” the new style and said he would buy the car. Myself and the other two men agreed and joked that if we wanted a car as big as a Pacemen – we would have gotten one.

“They got rid of my speedometer!” said one woman…

Style wise the host asked what was “wrong” with the exterior styling. I pointed out:

The nose, that horrible nose. Why in the name of everything good in the world did they paint that center section black? Why could they not make the bumper section more R56 like, smooth, or even R50/53 like? The lines of the chrome grill are wrong in proportion of the car. I understand its for crash protection, etc.. But it could be so much smoother, I get the length thing, but they could have blended it so much nicer. The “S” and JCW models look even worse with the black brake ducts and intercooler mount tacked on the bottom. At least on the R56 its mirrors the upper grill section. (note, I prefer the non “S” nose, yet I am an “S” owner).

The “A” pillar is broken. WTF? Why, WHY the 1st and 2nd Gen cars blend so nicely from the “A” pillar down to the apron. It’s a nice triangle, blended with the leading edge of the door. F56, it’s broken, it’s a broken line.

Three men agreed with me..

The host asked others…

The side scuttles are “blumpy” as one woman put it. “It’s depressed, but then sticks out with an odd shape.”

“Rear lights, are too big, the rear bumper, sticks out like Kim Kardashian..” said another woman.

“If that’s what the new Mini looks like, I won’t be buying it” said another…

The Men agreed, again with the exception of the one who liked the styling.

So then…. Everyone was riled up… and the host passed out F55 (5 door) renderings/photos.

EVERYONE recoiled in horror. “Why would they do this?” “Who would buy this?” “This is not a Mini”.. “Why not buy a Countryman..?”.

“Ok lets look at another car..” the host said.. pulling the cover off of a base R56 Cooper, pepper white, black top, 15” “holie” wheels.

The women all said.. “Oh yea… THAT’S MY MINI!”.. the Men agreed.. the styling was just far better.. the dash, looked like.. well an R56 dash, but it “works” much better in the car.. it had a human hand draw it.. We all fawned over it, right next to the F56.. the difference was staggering. The nose, the “A” pillars, the rear.. it was a Mini to the core..

Now, I know, I know… When Mini (R50) came out, the old school folks said the brand was “dead”. When the R56 came out, “everyone hated it”. I get that.. But this.. Hearing people say they wont buy an F56.. Was interesting. I know brands have to adapt and grow…

We all sat down again.

The host asked if we felt if Mini had lost its way, everyone, except for the one guy (liked the F56) said “yes”. When asked if we would buy an F56, only two people said “yes” assuming there was no other “funner” car out there (Fiat was pointed out..). We all agreed that Mini “must” make a super small city car to keep its image intact. The words “brand dilution” were used be several people to describe the current Mini lineup.

The host then asked us what percentage of the R56 was transferred over the F56.

40%, 45%, %60… nothing more. Except for the guy who like the F56, he said 90%.

So then the host asked if “some other brand, like say.. Mercedes Benz could come up with the same idea as Mini, take a long-dead historically fun car “brand” and bring it back to life”? Basically copy Mini’s original design model as BMW did.. but keep it “thin”.

It was then we all realized what we were there for. Mini, has a mark on its back, and Merc is watching. Merc is hearing the Mini discord, seeing the growth of Fiat, the fall of Hardtop sales in 2014 (yes, I know, supply, delays, etc..)..

So… then I’ve been racking my brain, what brand would they bring back?

Just thought I would share, I don’t like the F56. I’m not saying it’s a bad car, tech and build quality wise its tops the R56 for sure. But to hear others feel the same way, and a major company hear those rumbles through the fourms.. I just found it interesting that I was not alone. Please don’t take this post as a bash against it.

 

Nice write up Dan, thanks for taking the time. I'm not a fan of the F56 and I can't possibly imagine buying a 3 cylinder car! So how did you get chosen for this and where did it all occur? Curious.

 

I know from professional experience focus groups can be as valuable as they are detrimental to any research. The main element many marketing research groups do wrong too often is to lead in the group in what they want to hear. I've seen it happened quite a few times and it's frustrating to a person like me that is looking for in depth user feedback rather than validation of one group opinion. Context is everything and if you skew the context to gain an expected answer you will do a bad job getting real information from the group.
For example choosing mostly people who are owning a MINI already is someone biased to start with. We all are creature of habits to an extent. It is more often than not difficult to adapt to new things. Thus by not having none-MINI-owners in the group leads the research. People will mostly support each other increasing the chances for skewed feedback.
Now I leave them the benefit of the doubt in that they may have decided to split those two groups of people in order to avoid one polluting the answer of the other. We won't know.

It also seemed extremely loose in the way the question were structured, I wasn't there so obviously I could be totally wrong, but complex in-depth understanding are always hard to extract. Often people say one thing but 1. what they say isn't always exactly what they mean. 2. What they say can often be misinterpreted. And 3. what they are asked isn't always the critical part of the context one is trying to understand.

Anyway I'm not trying to put your experience down. As far as what the participant say there is really no right and wrong answer. I think it very interesting if indeed Merc is trying something here. It could be they want to reinvent their Smart model which has never been very strong. But I can't help feel from your description that they intentionally came to validate a preconceived idea rather that understand in-depth MINI customer values which would have been a lot more useful.

Customer perceptions are 3 dimensional and complex in nature involving a big array of emotions. These emotions will drive the final call for each individual. Skimming the surface can have someone chase the wrong path.
For example you can have forms and shapes that are not particularly elegant or pretty to look at but at the same time fit better to a sense of trend, contemporary time, and social values that do not speak of beauty but of social interactions. There are many cars I would consider today that fit that description and yet sale in big amounts from some Fords to some Lexus.

Anyway, thanks for sharing. I'm surprised they didn't have you sign a non disclosure agreement! but cool stuff!

 

Great write up. I chuckled at the "sticks out like Kim Kardashian" comment. I would have added "and also J-Lo"

This reminds me of the study were Dunkin Donuts paid their loyal customers to visit Starbucks and vice versa, paid their competitor Starbucks loyalists to visit Dunkin Donuts for a period of time. The WSJ had a great article on it where the DD customers said why in the world would I want to sit in a couch and drink a pricey coffee at Starbucks when I have a couch at home. SBUX customers felt that DD stores seemed very sterile and unfriendly.

http://blog.truelens.com/socialgraph...-vs-starbucks/







That said, I wonder who paid for this Mini study? I know I received a similar study about a Suburu Crosstrek but it ended up asking details likes and dislikes about the Mini.

 

That's an interesting read.

 

Interesting, thanks for that. It's always nice to have your personal biases
confirmed.

It would be interesting to see a second group of people who have never own a MINI before go through that same process.

For the life of me, I can't understand why the didn't do this BEFORE they released the F56, taken it to heart, and acted on it, rather than after release. Maybe there's hope for the F56 mid-cycle refresh.

 

Great story. Do you know who was behind the focus group? BMW or MB?
Were there any questions about a MINI being all electric?
What about Tesla? Being a MINI owner, I was told to save my pennies for a gen3 Tesla.

 

Yes, for sure it is slightly different from the 1st, and 2nd Gen. Minis. But it has not lost that Mini look. Could the front be better yes indeed. The big tail lights, well maybe tail gaiters will notice us, I like it. I have that three cylinder engine and it is good, so good that BMW will use it in the i series cars. BMW like it or not build great power plants and that little three could be it's future star.

 

I prefer the look of the F56, looks more grown up, more masculine and despite the criticism it's a step in the right direction. Everyone is going on about the size, not sure why as it really isn't that much bigger than the R56...whenever a model undergoes a facelift or change there is initial criticism. Went through this with my Golf GTI's as well. Had a 5 and 6 and with the launch of the 7 all the 6 owners went on about how "ugly" the car looked. In a year's time the whole r56 vs f56 debate will be long forgotten! Overall the f56 is a much better package to be in than the r56, its just logical otherwise MINI would not have changed the car.

 

It's five inches longer than the R56, with significantly more nose overhang, to the point that the car has lost it's proportions, especially if you go back to the R53. It's DEFINITELY noticeable. If you put an R53 next to an F56, the F56 looks like a Clubman. The difference between the R53 is noticeable but much more subtle.

MINI is about minimalism, and the new nose is overwhelmingly busy--it just doesn't work. Aftermarket companies have already noticed this and come up with alternatives at launch--this did not happen with the R53 or R56.

This is the best article I've read about the F56 compares to the R56 and R53:

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/06/27/2...oper-s-review/

 

Het Dan. Well writtien. I am Barry from Albany and agree withh everything you say. I had loads of fun as I think you did as well. The pollster contacted our MINI group up here (mpgminis.com).

 

 

I believe it was MB. Nothing about the EV Mini came up.

Gen 3 Tesla, I hear ya.

 

Hi Barry! I had fun too, well worth the drive, nice to meet you.

 

Oh, Ive been to "those" focus groups (where the moderator tries to steer comments), this was not the case. He was very clear in getting our comments correct. I was a little shocked when he did not try to steer the negative F56 comments more positive.

 

Nice write up danjreed!





Maybe Triumph... or DeLorean.
1.21 Gigawatts!


Anyone else have any ideas?

 

Pontiac. They should bring back Pontiac and start making sunfires again.

 

Very interesting read, danjreed. Thanks.

 

BMW owns the Triumph name. There was some talk ash the superlegerra concept coming out a as Triumph, but that sounds like a superduperpipedream if you ask me.

 

With what they're currently doing to the MINI I don't have any faith at all that they'd do the Triumph name any justice.

 

In the UK every other car seems to be a MINI so I'd guess BMW feel their policy is correct. Whether you like what they are doing is another matter.......

As for Triumph, anything BMW do has got to be better than the originals!

 

Meh. They're just trying to sell more cars. If it doesn't work, they'll try something else. Clearly, they did SOMETHING right with the MINI name at some point, or you wouldn't be here on this forum.

I just can't imagine them being eager to move forward with another sub-brand.

 

Ha! I quite like the TR series, but yes, they weren't known for their build quality.

Sent from my phone using NAMotoring, which is why I've probably mistyped something.

 

I should have made it clear I actually like (and owned) Triumphs! But wiper motors for fuel pumps, dodgy cylinder head bolt arrangements and plastic front suspension trunnions weren't their best ideas.

And if Mercedes were to launch a niche brand what's wrong with AMG?

 

They did. Unfortunately they've either consciously decided to change or just lost the direction that's brought the brand this far. I'm here on this forum because of what they did in the past. What they're doing now has a good chance of seeing me on someone else's forum 5-10 years from now.