2013 Fiesta ST has 200hp 1.6L
2014 F56 Cooper s 189hp 2.0L

The new Cooper S has less power than a fiesta. It will be obsolete before it is even released...

 

I think the Fiesta ST looks great... but 11HP isn't exactly a mind blowing difference.

 

Dude, the Fiesta has a 1.6L and the cooper S has a 2.0L. The fiesta has 11 more hp with .2L less engine to work with. See how bad that makes the cooper s look.

If you wanted a fair comparison(~25k MSRP)...
Focus ST 2.0L : 252 HP
F56 Cooper S 2.0L : 189 HP

The funny thing is that the F56 doesn't come out until next year and it's already behind the competition from a power perspective. I know the MINI handling is amazing but it certainly is a bit of a head scratches when you see such low power numbers. A fully loaded ST will cost what a poverty spec F56Cooper S will cost. Until MINI reliability improves dramatically, it would be hard for me to consider another one.

 

You do know that is how Mini was born, a cheap economical car than went on to win rally races because it was undowerpowered it was an underdog, but it still has a racing pedigree. If you are buying a car purely based on hp numbers then a MINI isn't for you. Saying it is behind the competition isn't a 100% accurate statement. Having followed a Focus ST on the Dragon and seeing it pull in the straights but drive considerably slower in the turns confirms the hp comparison, but also the MINI handles better. If it were a track setting I could have braked later and gotten him in a turn, but he pulled on me on the longer straights. Cars are like life, it's give and take...you can't have it all.

 

Minis are anything but cheap today. You can only rest on your laurels for so long. Mini hasn't done much notable in the racing world for some time. You are wrong if you think HP isn't that important to MINI. I assure you they will offer close to the Focus ST's HP with the F56 JCW. They just want you to pay more for the power you should have had in the first place. The Cooper S is only gaining ~10HP by switching to a new 2.0 motor. If that isn't a slap in the face I don't know what is.

You should run against a Fiesta ST. More power than a Cooper S and very similar weight might be a more fair fight.

tl;dr MINI knows the F56 Cooper S's power output is not up to par, they want you to pay more for a JCW.

 

Focus ST owner here about 1 year now, love the car and the clutch is just fine , but if I have to pick I still prefer drive my Cooper S over my ST


hope you not talking about me I was at the MOTD this year with my ST (the mini Look alike) LoL

 

Power is only half the equation. The Fiesta ST is HEAVY for it's size--the R56 will be approximately 200lbs lighter. That more than makes up for the power difference.

The Focus is in the Mazda 3 class, not the MINI Cooper class, which is in the same class as the Mazda 2, Fiesta, Yaris, Fit, etc. At least in B-spec racing.....You're making a comparison on one car that bills itself as a budget car, the other a premium car, then basing the comparison on price, which obviously favors the budget car. Wether you agree with the comparison or not, it's still apples to oranges.

 

I had heard you got a ticket at MOTD and the cop wrote MINI and not Ford, was this true?

 

The fiesta ST also has 4 doors and has a much bigger trunk than a cooper S. Given the added utility 200lbs is an acceptable weight penalty. Also the fiesta has a spare tire...

Also the Fiesta ST is the "premium" level of a budget car. Dealers are asking in the low 20k for them. The Fiesta ST is a hot hatch that competes directly with the cooper S in more ways than it does not. Also, your argument that the Ford is a budget car and the MINI is premium car does not account for the power difference. Why would a premium car have less power than a budget one?

You think a Cooper S is a premium car? cloth seats, no soft touch dash material (fiesta has it) halogen's standard, radio display from 1999? What except for good handling makes the MINI a premium car? You have to tick a lot of option boxes to make a Mini look better on the inside than any other econobox on the road IMHO.

 

You totally don't get what MINI is about. It's not about power, never has been. If that's how you look at it, you are definitely in the wrong place. I like the Fiesta, but it's like comparing Toyota to Lexus with regard to the cars--sorry, the MINI interior is just that much better. With a MINI, you are also paying for the novelty-- Fiesta's are a dime a dozen. Where does this pay off? In resale value. Fiesta can't touch MINI there.

The fiesta's interior looks and feels cheap. And on the track, it's no comparison. I can count on no hands how many Fiesta's I have seen. People don't by Fiesta's in nearly the numbers people buy Mini's for the track--why do you think that is?

MINI isn't for everyone. Some people get it, some don't.

 

+1 :-)

 

just to throw it out there..... 2014 golf R

 

Or the new Subaru STi two door. Similar in price.

 

*We're talking about the Fiesta ST here no the base fiesta.

1. If it's not about power then why, when I tell people I drive a MINI is the first question they ask "is it an S?" I have been asked this dozens of times.
2. What about the MINI interior is better? The layout is unique, true, but the quality of materials is about on par with a new Kia Rio.
3. Where do you live that a MINI is a "novelty." I live in Louisville, KY and see MINI's all the time. It's not a Lamborghini, no one gives a MINI a second look on the road.
4. Yes the resale is much better with a MINI, but if you're buying a car just to trade in in a few years then you're gonna have a bad time.
5. The mini has an edge on the track, but what percentage of new car buyers will track their cars maybe <5% at most? Track performance is a non factor for most people.
6. You say the Fiesta has a cheap interior. You know what part is the cheapest on the MINI? The engine! Timing chain tensioner, waterpump, hpfp, thermostat housing, vacuum pump (which can destroy the engine) are all common failure points. I'd rather have a cheap interior than the crap engine we get in the R56!
6. The mini is in a unique position because we really don't have many hot hatches in the U.S. The cooper S doesn't have any direct comparators. If you could buy a Renault Clio RS in the U.S. I guarantee Mini would not sell as many S's and JCW's.

 

Yes I did get a ticket and yes they did wrote me up as a Mini, I'm end up got out of that ticket.

 

Everyone asks about power? You realize the stock MC dominated it's autox class to a degree that lead to rule changes...Something the MCS (which I own) cannot claim. Guess which car finished first in B-spec Pirelli world Championships? Again, an MC. I believe an MC finished 2nd as well. The MC may not be as powerful, but it's still a great car in it's own right, good enough to hold it's own on the track--I see several every time I'm out. Sorry--there are plenty of stock MC owners doing just fine.

As for 2, if you can't see it, being in both side by side, I can't help you.

I live in the midwest. Many Fords--Focus's, Fiesta's, and other econobox's. No one notices them. The MINI however.....Do you know why Ford didn't bring the Focus RS stateside when they made the first generation--and why they're hesitant to bring them over now (This comes directly from a few of the higher ups at Ford)? Because the Focus and Fiesta are identified as "econobox's"--because that's EXACTLY what the base models are, and how they've been marketed; Ford felt that in the U.S., unlike in Europe, no one would be willing to shell out the dough for a high price performance "Focus." The ST may change Ford's minds, as it's found a niche.

The resale is higher in the MINI because it's worth more to more people than a similar used Fiesta.

You contradict yourself in 5--first performance is important, and now, when it comes down to the TRUE measure of performance, what a car can do on the track, it suddenly isn't. Can't have it both ways. But I see the issue. You see performance strictly as HP. Most of us in MINI's look at the entire package, not just what the car can do in a straight line.

As for your last point, I wholeheartedly agree with you there. The Clio would definitely be a true competitor to the MINI--the Fiat 500 has struggled mightily competing against MINI, Clio would be an interesting fight, and that is a fantastic car on paper--I'd love to drive one.

But if they did, MINI would hardly be obsolete like you mentioned in your previous post, anymore than it will be obsolete when the new Fiesta comes out.

Thing is, I don't "hate" the Fiesta, or Focus, they just don't do it for me. That being said, if Ford brought the Fiesta RS to the U.S., and perhaps even the Focus, it would get my attention big time. A Fiesta RS would be a blast on the track, and would be much cheaper/convienent to maintain for the track.

 

I see points on both sides. But just throwing this in there: http://www.minimotorsport.com/en/dakar/results

 

2.0 - 1.6 = .4

 

Do you realize that that Dakar MINI is actually a BMW X3 with a 6 cyl diesel? Not exactly a MINI other than its clown suit.

As far as spec B goes it is great that a MINI won. Had the championship leaders Mazda 2 not been crashed out MINI would have been second.

On Top Gear last week they did a track test between a Clio & a Fiesta ST. The ST was faster by something like 2 seconds a lap. Wish they'd have tested the MINI too.

I like MINIs & I like the Fiesta St too. A new MINI with all it's issues is not in the cards for me.

 

Interesting collated statistical comparison: Focus ST vs. MINI GP.

http://www.zeperfs.com/en/duel1328-1353.htm

 

Same compiler: Fiesta ST vs. Cooper S

http://www.zeperfs.com/en/duel3443-4504.htm