Ok to whoever reads this, i need some help and im getting really worried, any help will be much appreciated. Please be patient with me!

Here's the story...

I decided that I wanted to replace my spark plugs last week as me and my friend were discussing it and it didn't seem like a tough job and saw that it could have awesome benefits... and so, I went on down to halfrauds and bought one of their 'T' spark plug tools to remove my spark plugs, along with some Bosh Super 4 510 spark plugs (irrelevant).

Anyway, I put the tool down the spark plug socket and started unscrewing (or at least i thought I was) and then slowly the tool started to show some resistance. As if the plug was rusty or something. I got worried, didn't want to carry on so decided to just not carry on with it all and started to screw clockwise to tighten it again BUT it wouldn't tighten.
So my only option was to pull it out again or loosen it some more and see what would happen. I tried both options and it got STUCK (imagine) for about 3 hours straight. I was extremely scared I was using all of my body strength and I'm a pretty big guy, and it wouldn't come out.

I dripped some oil I had laying around in the back of the car, down the hole (maybe around a teaspoons worth) and after a bit more tugging and twisting, it finally came out. I was fuming yet relieved that i didn't destroy anything.

(Getting long winded, sorry)

Anyway, so I saw that the spark plugs that BMW put in my car are 12 sided spark plugs and so I didn't want to use any others and returned everything I bought, headed on down to bmw to buy one spark plug to replace the one I was messing around with.

NOTE: I noticed some juddering here, before actually replacing the spark plug.

cont.

I replaced the spark plug, felt better about myself however, my engine now judders a lot when trying to accelerate usually on 3rd/4th/5th gears. I don't know if thats very relevant but it judders when trying to accelerate in low revs. Imagine upshifting a little earlier than usual to accelerate. The engine judders so bad it's as if she's about to stall, quite scary when on a slip road, merging onto a motorway with an 18wheeler creeping up behind you.

Anyhow I also noticed that if I turn the car on and just leave it idle, the revs, now drop to a resting pace of around 700rpm and it's obviously low. It used to just sit at around 1100rpm.

I have cleaned the coils with cotton buds, the wells with a rag and still not much luck, maybe a tiny improvement.

So i'm encountering two problems, probably from messing around with the spark plugs but no idea how to fix it.

I've been reading on similar issues people are having with 'carbon builds up' and by cleaning throttle bodies or putting additives in the fuel tank but I have no idea what, really is the way forward.

If i was to put my finger on a specific problem, i'd say its the distance I have screwed the spark plugs in. I checked and they are all pretty much exactly the same height. (I don't have a Torque Wrench).

I don't want to spend a lot of money but will do, to fix the problem.

This is my first post, I'm really worried about my car and so any factual help would be much appreciated.

P.s the car is a MINI COOPER NON S 2007 R56 and has around 40K miles on her but I'm sure the problem is across the board.

Thanks, Ali.

 

Sounds like you have a miss or low compression on a cylinder....
MIGHT be a carbon issue. Here in the US, walnut shell blasting of the intake valves is quite common....
Adding cleaner to fuel does NOTHING on a Direct Injection car.

 

Thanks for the speedy reply. The carbon buildup is like a continious thing where it simply builds up right?

It seems its probably the first thing you said. I messed around with the car and it must have affected it.. Could you point me in the right direction please? Your help is much appreciated man!

 

Not sure,but carbon is ususlly an issue on direct injected motors...here in the us, that usually means s, not sure about your area.
Your symptom COULD be a bad ignition coil....any check engine light? A coil swap is usually a simple thing...
if the coil is fine, we usually do s compression check here in the us, to check on the interior condition of the cylinders....
But the more i think about it...sounds like i would look at coils....
You ssidit was noticable before a sparkplug change....any ONE plug look noticeablely different? Usually THAT cylindar is the one with an issue.
With the car running at a higher rpm than normal, with the sound happening, you could CAREFULLY liftup/unplug the coil/plug, and see if the motor runs the same/worse.
if no change when one coil unplugged...you found the bad cylindar....you could then put the coil on another cylindar...and repete....if the issue follows the coil....coil is bad. Doing this WILL likly give you a code, cause the motor will see you lifting up on the coil as a "misfire".
wear gloves imo...have seen mechanics do this trick on cars with multiple coils, but a coil makes high wattage/low amps, so it could give you a big shock if you mess up!

 

Ah, so you presume it'd be something to do with the coil/something wrong in that general area. That would make sense, in my original post, i mentioned a T spark plug tool getting stuck in the plug hole/well. Whilst using all my effort for hours trying to remove it, I banged the top of the well with the tool at one point trying to pry it back out. I don't have a picture but the small plastic ring that the rubber part of the coil sits on top of, is now cracked a little bit. It is only a tiny crack. Now from what you have said, it is now turning to my attention that this is probably the issue.

P.s I did an oil change myself about two weeks ago. I thought I did everything correct but I have been reading on oil pressure and things of that nature.

I really appreciate your help Zippy.

If it is that small crack, do you think that's probably the issue. I didn't think the area where the spark plug sits, was pressurised or anything. I just thought it was a small ring that the coil sits on top of.

I'm so worried. In idle she's just sat there now at like 700rpm or so and its as if she's just going to stall. instead of a 9mph 2nd gear resting speed, its now about 7mph and if left in second gear to coast on its own, it judders too also sitting at 700rpm.

I guess if you were to reply again, I'd ask you two main questions.
Could me messing around with that one spark plug when i did, affect the others and cylinders too?

And also, is there a right way of going about this.

It's still under warrantee, I told MINI the problem but haven't told them that I have been messing around with it... :( I'm sure it'll void it. Am so worried.
If I tell them that I have no idea where the tiny crack came from, would they know that I have removed the plug etc?

Anyway I've booked her in for Tuesday but if I can get answers from helpful people like yourself, earlier it may save me my warrantee which i spent about £800 on... :/ plus then i'd have to pay repair costs :'(

Appreciating your knowledge mate.

p.p.s I don't want the stealership to find out that I have been doing these coil swaps as they will know FOR SURE that I've been in there messing around so for now, thats out of the option. I suppose I should have stated that it's under warrantee earlier :p

thanks again.

 

Ah, so you presume it'd be something to do with the coil/something wrong in that general area. That would make sense, in my original post, i mentioned a T spark plug tool getting stuck in the plug hole/well. Whilst using all my effort for hours trying to remove it, I banged the top of the well with the tool at one point trying to pry it back out. I don't have a picture but the small plastic ring that the rubber part of the coil sits on top of, is now cracked a little bit. It is only a tiny crack. Now from what you have said, it is now turning to my attention that this is probably the issue.

P.s I did an oil change myself about two weeks ago. I thought I did everything correct but I have been reading on oil pressure and things of that nature.

I really appreciate your help Zippy.

If it is that small crack, do you think that's probably the issue. I didn't think the area where the spark plug sits, was pressurised or anything. I just thought it was a small ring that the coil sits on top of.

I'm so worried. In idle she's just sat there now at like 700rpm or so and its as if she's just going to stall. instead of a 9mph 2nd gear resting speed, its now about 7mph and if left in second gear to coast on its own, it judders too also sitting at 700rpm.

I guess if you were to reply again, I'd ask you two main questions.
Could me messing around with that one spark plug when i did, affect the others and cylinders too?

And also, is there a right way of going about this.

It's still under warrantee, I told MINI the problem but haven't told them that I have been messing around with it... :( I'm sure it'll void it. Am so worried.
If I tell them that I have no idea where the tiny crack came from, would they know that I have removed the plug etc?

Anyway I've booked her in for Tuesday but if I can get answers from helpful people like yourself, earlier it may save me my warrantee which i spent about £800 on... :/ plus then i'd have to pay repair costs :'(

Appreciating your knowledge mate.

p.p.s I don't want the stealership to find out that I have been doing these coil swaps as they will know FOR SURE that I've been in there messing around so for now, thats out of the option. I suppose I should have stated that it's under warrantee earlier :p

thanks again.

 

Ah, so you presume it'd be something to do with the coil/something wrong in that general area. That would make sense, in my original post, i mentioned a T spark plug tool getting stuck in the plug hole/well. Whilst using all my effort for hours trying to remove it, I banged the top of the well with the tool at one point trying to pry it back out. I don't have a picture but the small plastic ring that the rubber part of the coil sits on top of, is now cracked a little bit. It is only a tiny crack. Now from what you have said, it is now turning to my attention that this is probably the issue.

P.s I did an oil change myself about two weeks ago. I thought I did everything correct but I have been reading on oil pressure and things of that nature.

I really appreciate your help Zippy.

If it is that small crack, do you think that's probably the issue. I didn't think the area where the spark plug sits, was pressurised or anything. I just thought it was a small ring that the coil sits on top of.

I'm so worried. In idle she's just sat there now at like 700rpm or so and its as if she's just going to stall. instead of a 9mph 2nd gear resting speed, its now about 7mph and if left in second gear to coast on its own, it judders too also sitting at 700rpm.

I guess if you were to reply again, I'd ask you two main questions.
Could me messing around with that one spark plug when i did, affect the others and cylinders too?

And also, is there a right way of going about this.

It's still under warrantee, I told MINI the problem but haven't told them that I have been messing around with it... :( I'm sure it'll void it. Am so worried.
If I tell them that I have no idea where the tiny crack came from, would they know that I have removed the plug etc?

Anyway I've booked her in for Tuesday but if I can get answers from helpful people like yourself, earlier it may save me my warrantee which i spent about £800 on... :/ plus then i'd have to pay repair costs :'(

Appreciating your knowledge mate.

p.p.s I don't want the stealership to find out that I have been doing these coil swaps as they will know FOR SURE that I've been in there messing around so for now, thats out of the option. I suppose I should have stated that it's under warrantee earlier :p

thanks again.

 

It's not posting my replies!!!! :(

 

And carbon is only an issue on di motors....here in the usthat means S.
TILL you get first gear, your posts sometimes go through an approval by a mod...limits spam.

 

So now it is working! Anyway, I can't remember what I replied yesterday... it said a moderator will look at it before posting...

I remember i said something like,

I presume it is something to do with the coil as the top of the spark plug well area, where the rubber part of the coil that sits on top of the sparkplug tube, is cracked a tiny bit as when my tool was stuck, i was there for hours trying to pry it out and i accidentally cracked it a tiny bit. ( I know i'm stupid but i was so frustrated).

Is the spark plug well/tube area pressurised? if yes, i presume its this as maybe a tiny bit of air is in there. I doubt its anything to do with any of the other coils/sensors as I only messed around with this one.

P.s the car is under warrantee and i booked her in for Tuesday however, when i did any work, the car was off. Will they know for example that I changed the oil + also messed around with the spark plugs? I'm sure if they find out, then it'll void my warrentee.. :'(

I do appreciate your help by the way. Got kinda scared when you suggested the whole switching coils when the car is on'.

P.p.s
The revs are actually low, not high. I meant as in, when its in idle, its pretty much next to stalling. Its really scary :(

Any more suggestions? IF the dealers wont be able to find out that I messed around with the socket/plug then I don't really need to worry as I'm sure they'll fix it. No engine lights or warning or anything have come on since.

I remember I noticed that when I changed my oil the other week, everytime i start the car the fuel tank next to the fuel pettle indicators, starts off as red, then turns orange as normal once the pettles are all on. Does that make sense? I don't know if thats normal or not.

Anyway I've swayed off topic once again but the main questions are whether the dealership will find out if I take the car to them on tuesday, if I've messed around with it?

and the other question is regarding the top of the spark plug tube/well being slightly cracked.

Thanks for all your help so far Zippy. I feel like i'm getting somewhere with you!

 

Ohhhh thanks Zippy. I didn't realise that

 

If it is under warrenty, why mess with it.
If you broke it worse...guess you will know soon....
just let somebody who knows what they wre doing fix it....
sounds like you are in over your head....doing more might make it worse.

 

I understand that you think I have no clue what I'm doing but really changing the oil and spark plugs isn't something I saw to be a serious task. And the main reasons for changing them because I just wanted to change the plugs and oil before the service date as i felt like it needed it. :(

The main issue as that this tool that halfords gave me got stuck IN my engine. :/ Now, you may say that you wouldn't have gotton yourself in that situation but how can someone predict a tool being able to go down and not come back up :(

Anyway, thanks for the help. I haven't done anything else with the car since I started this thread. I suppose you don't know the answer as to weather they will know if I messed with it or not?

P.p.s Are you actually a pilot?

 

Yup to the pilot...
when they see non-factory plugs (if they look), there will be no doubt. The socket is kinda special...both in size and the need for the thin wall (not to get stuck). Plugs these days are good for a LONG time....oil....heck, always do mine early...cheaper than an engine change...but our oil here is also about half the price for engine oil, so makes the $$ question simpler.

 

Awesome! I've just been spending some time with a family friend actually whom works for Etihad Airways. Real nice guy. How long have you been a pilot for? Which airline do you work for or are you in some form of private industry?
I'm actually a student, well technically I have just finished but I studied Business and IT. Looking for a job now but I have really been getting into messing around with mine and my friends car so i'm thinking of taking up a mechanics course over here in Manchester as a part time thing. But i guess most guys want to do some kind of mechanics course ey.

Anyway back to the point. I actually did use a factory plug that I bought from BMW. Do you think the computer in the car/key will be able to determine that I have been 1)messing around with the coil/plug?
2)that the car had an oil change?

I shouldn't have done the oil change to be honest since they do it for free but i felt like it was getting really sluggish and I didn't want to wait.

I realised that the tightness of the plug I messed around with wasn't exactly the same but roughly the same tightness as the other plugs so i tried to get it exact so I losened it a little and I'm sure the car judders a little less however, still hesitates now and again with acceleration and sits in very low rpms when idle. Anyway, I'm stating this, as I didn't torque the plugs which i presume is essential as I read this... (Like i said I did put genione beru plugs from bmw in the mini but read this by NGK)

"Torque is one of the most critical aspects of spark plug installation. Torque directly affects the spark plugs' ability to transfer heat out of the combustion chamber. A spark plug that is under-torqued will not be fully seated on the cylinder head, hence heat transfer will be slowed. This will tend to elevate combustion chamber temperatures to unsafe levels, and pre-ignition and detonation will usually follow. Serious engine damage is not far behind.

An over-torqued spark plug can suffer from severe stress to the Metal Shell which in turn can distort the spark plug's inner gas seals or even cause a hairline fracture to the spark plug's insulator...in either case, heat transfer can again be slowed and the above mentioned conditions can occur."

http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/techinf...stallation.asp

Tell us about yourself if you'd like to share!



Ali

 

Your problem is due to you poring a teaspoon of oil down the spark plug shaft which in turn dripped into the firing chamber!

Torquing of spark plugs is horse s**t! Makes no odds. You just tighten till you feel friction and give it another full turn, job done. You never over tighten spark plugs due to cracking.

I've been working on cars including fitting spark plugs for over 16 years, never has caused an issue for me not torquing them.

SJD