When I went to buy my Winnie, we hadn't bought a new car in decades, and that one was a base model Hyundai. So, we just paid what the invoice said, and didn't try to get a deal. This time, being repeat customers and reliable in bringing our MINI in for service to the dealership, we would like to be more savvy and do better than MSRP. Our son paid $1500 under MSRP for his Jeep, because of membership in a club. Aside from the Not Normal voucher, when and how did you negotiate to get a better deal? And also, when? Do you do that when you actually put in the order and deposit? Or do you sit down and deal when the car has arrived, and you are signing the contract? Having never actually ordered and bought a car like this (Winnie was already on the ship when we bought her) I am not sure how the process works. We will be ordering the new MINI on Friday!

Hints and strategies appreciated.

 

For me, the price was negotiated before the order was placed. At a minimum you shouldn't pay for documents and destination charge. I feel it's the cost of doing business and the dealer can absorb that. Go in to negotiate fully prepared to leave. Decide what you want to pay and stick to it. If they don't meet you, leave. If you are reasonable in your request, they'll call you in a few days. Remember you can always go back.

 

You simply make an offer of what you will pay. It's as simple as that. They will either accept or counter offer. If you aren't willing to walk away and go to another dealer, then you are toast.

Be friendly but firm.

 

Ditto on that. I spoke to a salesperson over several visits this last month and then finally just told her I'd buy the car if she could get out the door for my price. Ended up with the price about $2k under MSRP plus they ate the shipping from FL to SC, tag transfer, etc.

My first Mini I bought at the end of 2010. There was a $6k rebate and I took delivery Christmas Eve. No arguments over price on that one.

You will likely get a much better deal if you can find a Mini already on somebody's lot. This is the time of year that inventory has to go.

 

I'm in the same boat and plan on going to the Not Normal event and talk with the MA I have been in contact with to see if I can negotiate the price I want. I'm basically going to lay out the MSRP of the price of the car I want and tell him that his offer of $500 off is very generous, but I would like him to consider $XXXXX. If he accepts, great, but more than likely he wont. I plan on asking if he can work with me on this and see what he comes back with. If it is something i am still not comfortable paying, Ill tell him I;ll think about it, but I'd really like to pay $XXXXX, get up and tell him I hope to hear from him if he reconsiders.....Thats the gameplan, I'll see how it goes :P

 

On a special order, if you have your build sheet priced and ready, $1500 under would not be unreasonable this time of year.

 

The website http://beatthecarsalesman.com/ has alot of good tips. Then Kelley Blue Book http://www.kbb.com has the price range showing the invoice, retail and a "fair" purchase price imbetween.

 

Thank you so much, everyone! A lot of very good ideas here, and the links will be great reading! :-) Tomorrow is the day, so tonight we do our homework, 'build' our car, and head over there with our loins girded... so to speak. And yes, we are willing to walk out if we don't get the deal we want. If it means waiting until next year to buy the car instead, we are willing to do that too. Especially if we think that we can do better than the $750 voucher would do.

You're all awesome!

 

It also seems to depend on how many MINI dealers are in your area. In the Seattle area there are two, both owned by the same people.
At the time I bought my car I made an offer on a car that I would special order and they did call me back in a couple of days- and said no. I wanted the car, and I had always heard that the local dealers didnt discount prices very often so I ordered it anyway. Luckily for me, MINI came out with a deal while I was waiting for delivery, and I was able to get $1750 off of MSRP.

 

Joanie,

Are you ordering a Coupe or looking to take one off the lot? Just wondering, as the ones on the lot are usually discounted quite a bit (since they and Roadsters don't move off the lot as fast). If they don't want to give a decent discount on an ordered Coupe, you may be able to get them to come down quite a bit on an S model sitting on the lot.

 

$1500 under by just negotiating without any incentives or $1500 total with incentives and dealer knocking it down through negotiations?

 

Location, location, location ......

Model, model, model ......

Timing, timing, timing ......

If your have dealers you can work against each other, that helps. If you are going after a model that is sitting on the lot, that helps. If you are going to order a Roadster, you may or may not have a lot of room to negotiate.

When I ordered my Roadster it was the 1st of the 2013 builds and there was a long waiting list for the 2 units my dealer had allocated to them. In a very nice way I was told, "If you don't want it, there are people waiting to take your place in line."

It's good to do research. Edmunds has a feature telling you what others in your area are paying for a particular make and model.

Finally, give your dealer an opportunity to do a swap with another dealer. Who knows, a dealer in L.A. may have just what you want and has been sitting on it for a few months and be eager to get it off their lot.

MINIs aren't like Hyundais and Toyotas. There are no mega-dealers and inventory is limited. Remember, they sell more Sonatas in a month than all models of MINIs in a year.

 

We hope to order a Justa Coupe in Lightning Blue, all we really want is the Sirius XM and the HK radio, everything else we are flexible on. Hubby isn't set on any particular package, etc... even color could be different, just not black. (so hard to keep looking clean) If we can get a really good price on one on the lot, we would be interested. I checked the KBB link, and they have no 'fair price' for the Justa Coupe, as too few have been sold and it is too new. Now to read the 'beatthecarsalesman' link, finish 'building' the car, and submit it to the MA. We'll see what he says, or if he can find something close to it that is already here.

Thank you again, everyone, for your help. This is so exciting!! I'll post back here and tell you what happens.

Tim, we will see you tomorrow, at the Twisty Run! Might be the last run for a while where I am driving and Craig is my co-pilot. LOL!

 

Joanie,

Good luck at the dealership! I know you said Craig is excited (just don't let the salesman see it).

I'll see you tomorrow as well (I hope to hear good news!). Radios have been bought and charged, oil was topped off and tire pressure checked. Ready to roll!

You could always drive both Mini's to the monthly breakfasts and twisty runs...though that might introduce some competition to the household... :D

Tim

 

Hi, Lucky Elf - I agree in theory that the cost of business should be borne by the seller. However, those two fees mentioned are precisely the ones I do NOT negotiate and I'll tell you why. The destination fee is the cost of transporting the car over, and that's pretty much a constant. Anyone who has tracked their MINI knows everything that goes into that. My MINI made it to the states without a scratch, and that's after traveling by train from Oxford to Southampton, then by ship to NYC, then through customs and onto a vehicle transport to my dealership in Princeton, NJ. Dang - I wish I could travel that cheap.

The document fee is actually a hard coded fee with many dealerships that is technically not supposed to be negotiable. This took some educating on my part because I used to negotiate out this fee on prior auto purchases. That was ten years ago. Suddenly all the car places I spoke price with wouldn't budge on it. The I studied up and became aware that dealerships are now open to class action lawsuits if they negotiate that fee, because the minute they negotiate it, it is technically no longer a "fee" and they can be held liable for paying it back to all previous customers. At my dealership, they were absolutely inflexible on the fee. Per se. In fact, the solution was simple enough - we got around our impasse by agreeing they would take the same dollar amount off the final negotiated price of the car, effectively taking out the doc fee. So it's just financial semantics. But there is a reason many dealerships won't negotiate it the way I understand it - legal survival.

 

Here in Ca the document fee is often BS. Many dealers will pad it 100's of $'s. I believe the state has set a fee of $40-50 but its not unusual to see them add a zero to that figure.

 

Well, we ordered the car, and we were pleased. There was nothing available on lots, or incoming, that was even close to what we wanted, so we weren't in the position of having to decide between an existing car, and the build we had in mind. Thank goodness! Those are the kind of decisions that induce trade-offs.

The MA gave us $500 off, plus the Not Normal, which we felt was fair. We are getting a stripped down, basic car already... NO packages, very little extra, so not much room to play. Their fees looked reasonable, especially with $500 off. I really liked Marc, the MA. He actually knew stuff about MINIs! He didn't try and talk us into a single thing that we didn't list. I highly recommend him for anyone in San Diego.

We have our VIN now, and look to get delivery in the second half of Dec, just as we had hoped. Thank you again, everyone, for your help. It made us more comfortable and gave us the confidence we needed to do a little better for ourselves than we might otherwise have done. Hubby sat and let me do all of the talking, but he drew a line at my choice of name... I wanted to name the Coupe "Winston" (goes well with Winnie, and is after, of course, Churchill). Craig has decided on Jasper. I guess I can let him make that choice, since it *is* his car. LOL! Jasper Cooper.

 

Sorry I didn't see this thread until this morning. I ordered a car and got $1k off MSRP without negotiating (I had a friend refer me). I was told JCWs don't get discounted and that I was getting an amazing deal. I thought that was a fair deal, so I placed my order.

Like you, my MA was knowledgeable, friendly, and not at all pushy with the options. Also like you, I kept my additions to a minimum. Only $1,450 (HK and black headlight housing) over the base MSRP. So I didn't think there was much room to negotiate either.

Just to do my due diligence, I emailed every single dealer within a reasonable driving distance. Nine dealers in all. Of those nine dealers, one matched the price I was getting, one matched and threw in free window tinting, and two beat it by $250. I thought to myself, how can all these dealers be matching or beating my price if JCWs aren't discounted? So I ended up posting my dilemma here with mixed feedback from several people. I eventually came across another NAM member's post their amazing deal ($650 over invoice) from a dealer 1,500 miles away from me (and very close to you). I got the contact's info from the other NAMer and emailed him. He said he'd give me the same deal and we could work out shipping arrangements. Even if I paid $600 or so for shipping it'd still be well worth it. I came back to my MA with the pricing, and after a couple of weeks of waiting, my dealership ended up matching the price. Which was awesome for me since I didn't have to abandon a car that was almost here in order to order a new one and pay for shipping. Not only that, but I ended up delaying delivery to take advantage of the Not Normal Sales Event. Just due to the fortunate timing, I'm actually getting mine for below invoice.

Again, sorry I didn't see this post earlier. I would've suggested that you email around, especially to dealers that aren't even in your area. Also, from my experience, it's never too late to work out a deal. I hope this helps!

 

A friend in the auto sales business once gave me the formula for negotiating a good price. I have used it effectively numerous times. It doesn't always work. Supply and demand of the vehicle has a lot to do with it. Here are a few tips.

1) Make sure they know that you are a serious buyer and that you are ready to buy the car NOW, if the numbers are good. Have your check book with you.

2) Know in advance what you are willing to pay. You can get a "Market value" price from edmunds.com or kellybluebook.com. That will tell you the list price, the dealer's cost, and the "fair price", usually somewhere in between. You can work off of that. It is perfectly acceptable to tell them how much you are willing to pay above their dealer cost (aka the "Tissue" price).

3) If you can buy a car off the lot, you should get a better deal. The dealer knows that he can "Roll the Car" quickly and deplete their inventory, which is racking up costly interest by the day. This is very attractive to them, and they're usually willing to cut a better deal. They also know that if you leave without buying, they my lose you forever. Having them find a car at another dealership is usually not attractive to them, because they have to pay to have the car transported and then they might have to make a consession to the other dealer. Ordering a car from the factory is not as attractive as well, but that doesn't seem to bother Mini. Having you buy a car off the lot makes the dealer happy, happy.

4) You can probably get a better deal if you show up at a slow time, like Tuesday night just before closing time, or first thing on a weekday morning. Don't show up on Saturday at 11:00am, or you'll be part of a target-rich environment. It might be nice also if it's near month end.

5) Know your price and stick to your guns. If it's a fair price, believe me, they'll be willing to ****** it up. But you have to be willing to walk away. The dealer is a lot smarter about these things than the average buyer. They will typically start with a high price. They know that by the time the negotiation starts, the customer has already fallen in love with the car, and at the end of the day, they will cave in to a price that is much higher than the dealer would be willing to sell for, if the buyer would only stick to their guns. They might lower the price by a few hundred dollars. The customer will consider it a victory, and cave in. But it will probably not be their best price. Tell them your price. Tell them that you are ready to buy right now at that price. If they offer you even one dollar above that price, thank them nicely and leave. Tell them you will still be ready to buy if they change their mind. And then DO NOT pick up the phone and call them for any reason. If the phone rings and it's you on the phone, they know they've got you. Even if you're just calling to ask them if they've changed their mind or to ask some other qestion, they'll know you're weakening, and then they really won't budge.

I was able to get a good deal on my Mini - between the car and my trade, I was able to close the gap by $2000, from what they originally offered me.

On my last vehicle (not a Mini), I bought the car off the lot. I showed up with checkbook in hand, ready to buy. I got the car at dealer cost, and on top of that, there was a $2200 rebate for repeat buyers. By the way, "Dealer Cost" doesn't mean the dealer doesn't make a profit on the car. There are other factors that (sometimes known as "Holdbacks") that the dealer makes money on, even if they sell to you at the tissue price.

By the way, one of the tricks that salespeople use is to keep you there at the dealership as long as possible. They wear you down. And that gives them a negotiating advantage. They love to do this when they are evaluating the trade. The salesman disappears with your car keys (so you can't leave), seemingly for an eternity. I have found nowadays that it's acceptable to close the deal over the phone. You agree on the price, they fax you the forms and you give them your VISA card number for the $1000 deposit. When I bought my Mini, I drove to the dealership first thing in the morning and left my car there, with instructions for the MA to have the trade evaluated when she came in. I had already picked out the car that I wanted, so I knew the price I was willing to pay. This enabled me to do the negotiating over the phone from the comfort of my office. This gave ME the negotiating advantage.

 

Go to edmunds.com -- they have the actual dealer cost on all the options on the car so you'll have a good idea what's fair.

 

I assume when you say "fair" you mean how far off dealer invoice, right? So then the question is, how much markup is "fair"....obviously as a buyer, the lower the better, we would want it at dealer invoice/cost or below if we could get it. I'm thinking for a dealer like the MINI, $1000 above dealer invoice is the top end of "fair".

 

"Fair" is certainly open to interpretation, and is subject to supply and demand. A car that is difficult to come by, or special will command a higher price. If the dealer has tons of cars that aren't selling, they will be willing to sell for less.

There is never a reason to buy a car at MSRP. And if you accept the first offer that the dealer gives you, you will DEFINITELY pay more than necessary. On a MCS with no options, the spread between dealer cost and MSRP is about $2,300. So the "Far price" is probably anywhere from $800 - 1500 above dealer cost. My dealer initially quoted me a price much higher than that. I knew that they would happily sell it for much less and I was right. I stuck to my guns and I got a much better deal. Believe me, the dealer was happy with the number we agreed upon.

I think the point is that most dealers will quote a price much higher than fair, because they know the average buyer will cave in. I think if you let them know that you are a serious buyer, but that you will happily walk away if they don't meet your price, you'll get a better deal.

 

Thanks for an awesome response! You reenforced a lot of what I have heard. Wish me luck on my first real car negotiation.