So, about a month ago I had my timing chain replaced at the dealer in my R56 Cooper S, all was good and well and has been up until today. I went out to the garage to do a quick checkup on my brake pads and rotate my tires, gave me something to do and I figure it couldn't hurt!

Had a little struggle with the lugs on the front left tire, thought no biggie, who ever torqued them down at the dealer must have gone a little overboard. Back left seemed to be about right as did the back right.

Then I moved on to the front right. Couldn't budge them. Any of them, not even a little. I thought okay, this is odd, repositioned myself, made sure the wrench and socket and everything was seated properly, A-OK. Still nothing. By now I'm thinking how much pressure did they torque these to? Did they even use a torque wrench or just tighten them down with an impact? I kept trying and it felt like it was starting to give...but not like it should so I backed off and noticed the head of the lug bolt was starting to slip so I tried a different one. Make sure everything is set and go for it...and all of a sudden BAM it gives way...but it didnt feel right. I'm thinking S***, did I snap the head off? break the wrench somehow?? Nope, this:



I broke the socket? Seriously? In the process it mangled the heads of both bolts a bit, so I'm assuming the feeling on the first one was the socket starting to go then it let loose on the second lug.

At this point I'm pissed, it had to be well over 200 ft/lbs...absolutely ridiculous. I give the dealer a call thinking they were the last to touch these wheels. I check my torque specs every month or so and they had to have had the wheels off at somepoint because I have a report for a courtesy inspection that lists info for brake pads, suspension, tires, etc. Not to mention I am extremely careful when torquing the wheels.

Dealer receptionist tells me the SA will have to call me back, he's busy. Takes my name and number. Never get a call back.

After 3 hours of waiting I had to grab a different car and go to the store to get a new socket because my mini is in the air with no rear tire on, a broken socket, and a front tire I can't get off. The other 2 tires have already been rotated.

I BARELY managed to fight the lugs off the front wheel this evening and get everything back together but it has me a little worried...that much pressure can do damage. What are everyones thoughts? I'm going to give the dealer a call back to talk with them about it because I personally find this to be COMPLETELY unacceptable. I'm going to need to get new lugs (any reccomendations?). And I'm not sure if anything else may have been damaged from driving around for a month with the wheel torqued down that much...that was a lot of stress, enough to break a socket.

 

That is ridiculous, I would have the dealership reimburse you for the costs of everything that you purchase. Hope you get it all straightened out

 

Check your oil pan drain plug too. If your dealer can over-tighten a wheel lug bolt, imagine what they can do to the drain plug.

 

Call the Service Manager. Totally not acceptable.

 

I'll have to take a look at the drain plug, that worries me a little, but I can't imagine they'd have used an impact or similar tool to tighten that...at least I would hope not. I gave the SA a call yesterday and was told he'd call me back...that was at 2PM yesterday...still no call. We've given MINI/BMW Concord some very good business the last few years and I'm kind of tired of getting blown off. The receptionist gave me some snappy response of "Well what do you expect me to do about it sir." so I'm pretty peeved about it right now.

 

What size ratchet were you using? With as tight as the specs are for these lugs, using a regular sized ratchet won't get you there. If you have a breakover handle, I recommend that. I lost mine a few years ago, so I resorted to using the lug wrench in the MINI kit to get mine off--it gets the job done. Though a breakover makes it easier for leverage.

 

Regarding the oil drain plug, there are numerous complaints about dealer mechanics over-tightening them to the point that they can't be removed by the DIYer. Happened to me.

 

I was using a regular craftsman torque wrench that has torque settings up to 150 ft/lbs, there is absolutely no way I would have been able to get anywhere with a regular ratchet and unfortunately I had nothing else at my disposal. I set it to the max, 150 and tried to get the bolts off...it clicked but I didn't have much choice but to keep going, I'm sure the calibration is way off on it now. Like I said, the rear wheels seemed fine which is what puzzles me a little, I've had the wheels off several times to work on the brakes and whatnot, I always torque them to 100 ft/lbs and the left front was definitly more than that, and the right front was out of the ballpark. It wasn't even close to a normal torque spec.

I'll check out the drain plug this weekend, that is not okay. If they don't call me back in the next couple of days I'm going to give the service manager a ring. I've been trying my best to give these guys the benefit of the doubt the last couple times I've been in, but this takes the cake.

 

I've had the dealership over tighten the lug bolts on one wheel to the point they were damaged. They replaced them for free. When they offered to put them on for me, I said "no way". So I took them home and did it myself.
As far as the drain plug. It's amazing how effortless it is to take off when torqued to the correct spec. Good luck.

 

Well after calling them the day of the incident I never did get a call back. I gave them a full week to get it together and yesterday I called them and skipped the SA and went straight to the service manager. I was NOT happy. He told me it was unacceptable how they've handled the situation as far as getting back to me. I gave them a week to simply call me back (even to just make contact so I know they didn't blow me off) and I guess they completely ignored me. SM said he'd take care of that issue.

Then we talked about the lug issue and he assured me they would never do anything to endanger a customers vehicle and kept trying to put the blame on another shop or me. It seemed like he was trying to brush it off by saying "sir I understand the logic of it wasn't me so it must have been them...". I didn't take to well to that, and he seemed to understand my frustration after I stressed the fact that I BROKE A SOCKET and it took me SIX hours to rotate two tires, no one else does any work on the car and it would have been nearly physically impossible for me to get them that tight by myself. but I'm giving him a fair chance, he said he'd do some research into it, and he'd call me back. I'll give him a week and if I haven't heard back by Tuesday again I'll give him another call.

 

I had a similar issue with another vehicle of mine. Broke the factory lug wrench/jack handle trying to loosen a lug nut the dealer had put on. Took a breaker bar, a pipe and jumping on the two to break it loose. Dealer swore up and down that their techs always torque the lugs to spec. I have never seen a dealership service tech use a torque wrench on a lug nut. They all grab the impact wrench and go at the lugs like they're workin' in the pits at the Daytona Motor Speedway. I made the dealer give me a new lug wrench/jack handle.

Ever since then, I always retorque the lugs whenever I get my cars home from having any service where the wheels had to come off.

 

Just an example of a lazy technician not snugging down the bolts then using a torque wrench. We see this all the time as they just run them down with an impact.

 

I've seen the tech run them all the way tight with an impact wrench (which is bad). I've also seen them use pre-calibrated "torque sticks", which are like torque wrenches except that they're fixed at a particular setting (this is better). I also have never seen them pull out a torque wrench for the final tightening.

I'll admit that I use an impact wrench for the sake of speed, after getting the nuts started by hand. But I also know that the first "forward" setting on my impact wrench leaves them well below-spec, and I finish them off with an honest-to-goodness torque wrench.

 

This is somewhat fortuitous as I JUST sent a complaint to my dealer after I had them check the torque on all my wheels. I like to keep the wheels spotless on the inside barrel as well as the outer facing portion. Using the provided lug wrench I couldn't budge the bolts. I found that wrench was too loose to securely fit over the 17 mm lug nuts.

The SA advised told me the mechanic had no trouble removing the nuts, but set them at 84 pounds. I immediately went home and tried to remove one of my wheels and again couldn't make them unscrew.

In a separate thread in this forum section, one of the responders mentioned my torque should have been over 100 pounds (103 to 107) and that 84 pounds was the designated figure for older Minis, not for my 2011 Countryman S.

So now, after reading this, I'm perplexed if this is a systemic issue with these cars.

 

And the "old" torque spec wasn't even 84 lbf-ft, it was 88 lbf-ft. Considering that the changeover was in the summer of 2006, I'm surprised that they're still making the mistake.

 

I think it's a problem with lazy technicians, not the MINI. I've had the same issue with previous cars - torque wrenches not used. But on my previous non-MINI it was a major issue as over-torquing would lead to warped rotors within weeks because of the hub design.

And yes, newer MINIs have higher torque requirements just over 100 lb/ft.

Sounds like your lug wrench needs to be replaced (manufacturing defect maybe?) if it is loose.

 

My usual MINI dealership always under-inflates my tires when I go in. I always forget to tell them not to touch! Obviously I drove in so the tires are hot... they dump air out to match spec. when I drive home all the tires are low. So anyways I am not exactly surprised to hear they stated wrong torque specs.

 

I don't think it's the cause of the problem or anything, but technically it's bad for your torque wrench to use it to break bolts loose. Even set at 150 ft-lbs, you're using a precision instrument for a brute force job. Over time it throws off the accuracy of the torque wrench. After all, if you're satisfied with setting the torque "close enough", why even use a torque wrench? Just do it by feel. And a cheapie 18" breaker bar is like $9 on the web, or $30 or $40 for a nice brand, which will preserve your expensive torque wrench for the job it was meant for.

Just saying, is all.

None of that excuses the dealer over torquing your lugs. Seems like every time I let anybody touch one of my cars I find the lugs too tight. However! Just recently I had my alignment done at Fat City here in Seattle and the invoice said noted torqued the bolts to 90 ft-lbs, and sure enough, they did. So they aren't all like that.

 

Yeahhhhhhh I was waiting for this, there's always at least one person.....yes, I am aware it probably did damage to it, I stated that in the original post. Do I normally use the torque to loosen bolts, yes, does it do damage, probably a little. I still set it at 150 ft/lbs to loosen and if applying pressure within it's range causes it that much damage, then it seems i'm doomed and should just give up.

Nah jk, I don't mean to slam you about your post, you're just passing on useful info, and to an extent I do appreciate that. I expect I will continue that way, even if it does damage. Could I do it by feel? Probably. The little click gives me that extra peace of mind and if its off a couple pounds then oh well, and if its closer to 10 or 20 off then I'd be able to tell. I guess I'll be alright.

Anywho, still no update from the dealer, was hoping for a call yesterday but who knows, maybe I've uncovered some huge earth shattering corner cutting scandal at MINI of Concord.

In all seriousness though, it does seem like a pretty common issue, but I will continue in my pursuit to get them to admit fault at a minimum. We'll see what happens though!

 

There's no reason to try to change the original poster's mind about anything, obviously, but for anyone else reading, I only want to say that in years past, I often cut corners working on cars and motorcycles. Used the wrong tools, or winged a procedure instead of following the manual. Because it was too expensive, or took too long, or because I felt like it.

But a while a go I stopped working that way and did my best to do it the right way, if I could. I still sometimes, infrequently, make up my on way of doing things, but only when there's a compelling reason, and I have evidence (not just a feeling) that it's going to work.

The difference between now and then is that I have a lot less "bad luck". As if by magic, things go wrong less often. I find myself not as often a "victim" of somebody else's "mistake", or even malice. How can that be? Some kind of voodoo? Karma?

Who can say? Maybe it's my silly old imagination. No doubt I'm mistaken about any number of things, and I'm sure there's plenty of others who could school me. I've been wrong before and I'll be wrong again. All I'm saying is, that's what I've experienced.

 

Did you really feel the need to insult me on the way I use a torque wrench? Does the fact that my lug nuts may be a few pounds off mean I cut corners with everything I do? No. Do I loosen my lug nuts with the torque wrench? Yes. Case Closed.

I was hoping you'd take my first response as a hint to back off, but clearly that didn't take.

Please, BACK OFF. I don't appreciate you using the way I loosen my lug nuts as a floor to educate people on cutting corners. Intentional or not, it's a little insulting.

 

Had to remove my front wheels for easy install of my LED City and Hoen fog lights... Almost couldn't get the wheels off. Damn lugs must have been 150 ft/lbs after dealership install. Will have to check the rear wheels too and re-torque later.


Also, first time I used the MINI provided lug wrench from my JCW and I find it too loose whereas the socket in my torque wrench is pretty snug.

 

You said....
...And I responded to you in kind. Don't like it when people talk down to you? Then don't talk down to other people. Don't like being patronized? Then don't patronize others. Pretty simple, really. "Do unto others..."

I know you're mad because you're writing "back off" in all caps and whatnot, and I'm sorry you're angry. But what do you expect? Honestly? You get what you give in this life. Truth.

 

You might consider asking for new lugs on at least the one wheel. If the dealership does not step forward replace them on your own. That much stress on a lug bolt can cause damage that will haunt you later.
John

 

PM Sent.

Yeah, I'm hoping they admit fault at a minimum and they will replace those lugs. I made it very clear that I felt that amount of stress on the bolts could cause damage at any time and the Service Manager seemed to agree with me. I still haven't heard from him, I'm going to give him until late next week just in case the holiday threw off his schedule. I want to give them a chance to come clean, but he knows I was very irritated with what happened so we'll see what happens.