R53 vs R56 ??
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 38,578
Likes: 2
Yes, it is interesting. In the design world there are well-established processes and criteria for analyzing design and defending the integrity or correctness of a design. For example, design can look odd unless one understands the function or benefit derived from a certain design approach. One might also look at the basis or inspiration of a design...is it well-motivated. One might look at the potential hazards of taking a different design approach, thereby making the direction chosen the strongest of all available options. Anyway, all I'm saying is that there are methodologies for making design a bit less subjective and for optimizing it's impact and effectiveness. And yet, after all this there is the final emotional response of "do I like it?" We've seen the whole range this year, and why not, this is a car-enthusiast site, not a designer site. I just want to clarify that design exists in a world where "I don't like it", or "I do like it" or "it looks funny" is not enough to base decisions on...ideas must be defended, both for refinement and for becoming reality. It is a discipline all it's own with language and recognized processes all it's own. I do think it is an idea that may help as we process the evolution of our favorite little car in the years ahead and may help folks process input from BMW/MINI that we may see here and there. I'm not saying we have to like a design, but perhaps one can understand it and at least appreciate certain aspects here and there. In light of this, it is possible to point to aspects of both R53 and R56 and discuss objective strengths and weaknesses. Overall, though, MINI has received some very deft handling from some very talented people, and whether we "like it" or not, each car can hold up very well under professional scrutiny. All in all it is quite impressive and would, I hope, instill a certain confidence that...although change will/does happen...MINI is still in very capable hands.
4th Gear
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 384
Likes: 0
From: Minnesota
Yes, it is interesting. In the design world there are well-established processes and criteria for analyzing design and defending the integrity or correctness of a design. For example, design can look odd unless one understands the function or benefit derived from a certain design approach. One might also look at the basis or inspiration of a design...is it well-motivated. One might look at the potential hazards of taking a different design approach, thereby making the direction chosen the strongest of all available options. Anyway, all I'm saying is that there are methodologies for making design a bit less subjective and for optimizing it's impact and effectiveness. And yet, after all this there is the final emotional response of "do I like it?" We've seen the whole range this year, and why not, this is a car-enthusiast site, not a designer site. I just want to clarify that design exists in a world where "I don't like it", or "I do like it" or "it looks funny" is not enough to base decisions on...ideas must be defended, both for refinement and for becoming reality. It is a discipline all it's own with language and recognized processes all it's own. I do think it is an idea that may help as we process the evolution of our favorite little car in the years ahead and may help folks process input from BMW/MINI that we may see here and there. I'm not saying we have to like a design, but perhaps one can understand it and at least appreciate certain aspects here and there. In light of this, it is possible to point to aspects of both R53 and R56 and discuss objective strengths and weaknesses. Overall, though, MINI has received some very deft handling from some very talented people, and whether we "like it" or not, each car can hold up very well under professional scrutiny. All in all it is quite impressive and would, I hope, instill a certain confidence that...although change will/does happen...MINI is still in very capable hands.
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,762
Likes: 0
My suggestion is this.... If some of you are intolerant to opposing views, then refrain from posting in these threads. If you don't like my opinion or the other guy's simply click on the ïgnore" button and be done with it. These conversations are not worth getting your blood boiling over.
6th Gear
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,113
Likes: 0
Funny thing about generalizations and assumptions...I might as well put in that I'm another exception to Edge's assumption about R56 owners and their knowledge and experience with R50/53s. There was an R53 spec'd at the dealer that was nearly identical to the R56 I had to order.
I'm amazed that a discussion of purely subjective items has raged for so long on NAM, but even more amazed at the number of people on both sides that apparently believe that their opinion of these entirely subjective items is the only possible valid opinion. There are certain things I prefer about the R53; there are others I prefer about the R56 that made it the better car for me. I spent some quality time in an R53 tonight (thanks Waylen) and definitely dig that car in its own right.
I hope that in the future R56 owners will remember the backlash felt from some of the more vocal R53 fans and not continue this cycle when successive MINI iterations arrive.
I'm amazed that a discussion of purely subjective items has raged for so long on NAM, but even more amazed at the number of people on both sides that apparently believe that their opinion of these entirely subjective items is the only possible valid opinion. There are certain things I prefer about the R53; there are others I prefer about the R56 that made it the better car for me. I spent some quality time in an R53 tonight (thanks Waylen) and definitely dig that car in its own right.
I hope that in the future R56 owners will remember the backlash felt from some of the more vocal R53 fans and not continue this cycle when successive MINI iterations arrive.
If you read a lot of the posts...
There's a wonderful quote that I'm sure I'll butcher, but it basically says the size of the argument is inversly proportional to it's importance....
Matt
I'm sure there's a good point in that post you quoted but without using the return key to form proper paragraphs, sadly, I'll never know 
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