I'm curious to see what kind of potential the new turbo motor has. Turbo motors are usually very responsive to mods. I don't think it would be too difficult to get it running in the mid to low 13s. The stock 07 MCS boosts 11.6psi. With more fuel and tuning the boost could be raised to make some good power.

 

This true....and how many of us have some form of attachment to a Mk I Mini. Quite a few, I dare say.

Trust me on this....most who motor in an R56 fall in love w/ it's quirks and uniqueness just like many of us fell in love w/ R50/53 with the same. The car does have the same draw, and that is a great thing. I think the MINI design team did an amazing job w/ R56, and w/ the Clubman, but at the same time I can't imagine why anybody would discount the venerable designers of the R50/53, even though I feel some definite improvements have been made, particularly in the Cooper.

And in relation to the "ruined" comment...no, it is not unfair to disagree w/ that assessment, any more than it is to make the assessment in the first place. I might say it is "unnecessarily extreme", although I do understand that many an R50/53 owner stood in the showroom looking at the R56 and had that exact same thought. I'm fine with that. But none of these MINIs have been "ruined". I've spent my whole career in design and I'll spare you my assessment...but it's just not objectively that bleak. I do understand having a preference though.

 

Ditto...it seems the ECU is the bit to crack at the moment.

 

Heres a good side by side comparison

 

Tried that. If you go back to some of the development photos of the R56 you'll see.

The problems they ran into were the overall engine dimensions. The R56 is a physically large engine. To put it in the old body, they had to stretch the engine bay 6-8 inches across the front overhang and there was a huge bulge welded onto the hood.

They had to work hard to shoe-horn the R56 powerplant into the body, too. Firewall has been moved and contoured and the beltline raised to make the hood countour look similar to the previous generation. So it wasn't just the pedestian safety regs that made them change... but it was on the horizon and they were going to have to do somthing, anyway. Might as well get it over with during the release of the new model versus changing mid-cycle.

"And so is the R53?" What do you mean? Sounds like you have nothing but praise for it. Or, more accurately, you have nothing but contempt for the R56. I'm curious.

Alta's car is putting out 220+ at the wheels.... and they're expecting 230+ with water/meth. Sooo... the power potential is very-very high.

Look around. It's done. There are no fewer than 3 aftermarket ECU's availible right now.

 

I always hated rattles, although now I'm used to them. I didn't like it when my BPV went while accelerating onto a highway, creating a very dangerous situation. I like the interior of my old e30 better than the R53 which is anything but driver oriented. I don't like how I'm on my second windshield. I don't like how I had to pay extra for an anthracite headliner - it should come with the car, especially my color combo. The shifter is too sloppy. And the list goes on; the R53 is far from perfect in my eyes.

And you'd actually be less accurate to say that I have more "contempt" for the R56 than praise for the R53. While I applaud your use of such a great word, it's too strong to say my hatred for the R56 overcomes my love of the R53; quite the opposite, if it weren't for the R53, I'd probably love the R56! But I don't. I don't like it, but I don't hate it, either. It just won't be my car. Ever.

If you want it in writing again so we can make sure everyone feels good, here are my observed positives of the R56:
- Awesome power potential, and stock power for that matter.
- Quieter interior.
- Shifter that is in another world.
- It has grown our community.

Glad to quench your curiosity!

mb

 

Don't know if it was quenched or not . I think it might have piqued my interest even more, in fact.

I guess I just read into your previous post...

I didn't think contempt was too strong of a word... in hindsight though, I'm now getting the impression that you're quoting a passage from the book? I didn't get that initially. My bad.

 

Although... there's something about the GTI's plaid seats that's attractively retro. Not enough to get me to BUY one, but that's another story from this longtime VW fan.

I guess I've seen enough R56-era Minis that they're growing on me.. I still prefer the R53 but see some of the advantages of the R56. It doesn't look as "googly eyed" as it did at first, and I'm especially liking some of the seating options, the chocolate makes me say "yum", even though it's not really a manly word.

I'm also glad the R56 and Clubman are on board - it means more Mini sales, and therefore more support for "our" club, "our" community, "our" marketplace - meaning more fun for R50/52/53/54/55/56/57/58... owners overall.

 

In many ways I see the 56 as a big improvement.... but I will not be buying one. I think the reason I bought a Mini is satisfied by the 53. That being said, I agree that the 56 has grown the community and it is a pretty nice progression for the marque. I am beginning to think that the 53 will be considered to be the "seminal" car that advanced the Mini. The originals, while cool, did not have broad appeal and quite frankly are too dangerous for American highways and driving as practiced by 98% of us.

 

No I wasn't quoting, just using it as a basis for my first, immediate impression. I should have been more clear to state using the ideas in Blink as a basis for my post was to show the idea that the first, initial impressions end up being accurate (to the individual) once they can be intellectualized later on. So my point to you was that no, that impression wasn't one of "contempt" immediately, just of "something's wrong here for me".

Is that more clear? I'm cool with you thinking I hate the R56; if that's how it comes off, then I have to accept that, though when I think about cars I do "hate" (PT Cruiser, Hummer), the R56 is not even in the same league!

mb

 

I think its just the down-side to internet forums. What we write and how it's interpreted can be two different things. Thanks for the clarification.

 

Internets are serious business!

 

I agree with this and I drive an R56! I still have an R50 that my daughter drives all the time, though. When I drive the R50 yes, its noisier, and has more rattles, and the switches are clunkier, and the interior feels cheaper, and the engine needs a little blip to get it going, but it does have a certain feel and quality that is still attractive and engaging and visceral. I am delighted that R53 has not been fully eclipsed by the newer model, and that it has many avid admirers. Even though I've been very enthusiastic about the R56 thing...I am an admirer of R50/53, too. Sometimes I think of R50/53 at a happy mistake...an awkward effort between Rover, BMW, and (don't forget) a little direct John and Mike Cooper influence thrown in. It is an anomaly perhaps. However, we should all wish such anomalies could see production, because whatever happened with R53, the result for the car enthusiast is undeniably magic. Now that BMW has full control of the car, it is probably more what they always intended it to be, which makes the unique features of R53 all the more valuable. That said, I still get back in my R56 and am thrilled for it's own uniqueness, too, even though my own daughter quite innocently says it looks bigger.

 

No problem. I'm learning this lesson writing other places, too. We run into problems when people get offended by others' interpretations and get defensive instead of trying to discuss it. That's why I set this thread apart from others - it just sounds to me more like a discussion. I tried to start a similar discussion a while ago when I noted that part of my angst with the R56 design had to do with the height of the tail lights. I posted it and then got called a troll. Ah well...best laid plans, right?

mb

 

In my opinion neither car is better than the other. The R56 is a bit faster and has more potrential, but not everyone is speed racer. As for the R53...it just looks classy - almost like it has some porche styling cues. Then again the R56 is also a very well designed car...I mean just look at it!

 

^^^drool.

I think R56 restores a balance to the MINI line that was bound to happen and was much needed inasmuch as one of the major and rightful personas of a MINI is a daily commuter car. R56 really dials in a car that die-hard enthusiasts may not prefer, but a large segment of the motoring public really needs...a car you can easily live with day in and day out that is still essentially a very capable MINI. I think BMW was very right to do this and I think MINI may have been artificially skewed towards the enthusiast sector in a way that needed some correction since it risked leaving a lot of customers out. I think dialing-in the ride quality is a major indicator of this...obviously it was an area of complaint for many (even on NAM), although perhaps not for many performance enthusiasts.

And yet, the R56 MINI continues to perform well....so yes, it's easier to live with but also apparently really good when pushed, albeit in a different way than R53. To me this seems a more proper arrangement: a good, spirited daily-driver that folks can live with, but one that can be tuned in a myriad of ways from adding sport-suspension, to JCW enhancements, to who-know-what the aftermarket may generate. Enthusiasts can live in that rarified air that is unique to them, but the folks who just love MINI-motoring have a wonderful car, too (and can retain their dental fillings).

So, yes we can say R56 is designed for the masses, but I'm not sure that is a bad thing really in the grand scheme of things. Enthusiasts can (and are) taking the car way beyond this basic level, and it seems this was/is a very fitting approach in light of Mini/MINI heritage. As seen in the pic above, the R56 JCW and the Challenge MINI represent an enthusiast version of a MINI that to some extent R53 also embodies. R53 owners should be proud...they bought an enthusiast-type car right out of the showroom!!! Such a deal!!

And so the MINI tradition is continuing unabated, imo, except in a little different configuration than before....a better-dialed in MINI for the average motorer, and even more development on the performance /enthusiast front. It makes me think that MINI hasn't missed the boat at all, but is simply broadening it's success and appeal both up the scale and down.

 

Okay, Ladies and Gentlemen--time I got some things off my...er...chest:

One word:

TURBO!

Seriously, there are a few other words I'd like to put in. I like the R56. I recognize that some of you guys think it's ugly, but after nearly a year of ownership, I'll be darned if I can figure out which one's which without a few minor clues. The new European safety laws dictated the changes, but they're really pretty small in the general scheme of things. Evolution is the name of the game. No design stays static, and the "old" one has had its run. Does that mean the R53 is obsolete? Of course not. Neither is it a "classic;" think pre-BMW for them! By the way, if you'd check out the measurements, you'd find there is really very little difference--a matter of millimeters!

There are some criticisms I agree with. The speedo IS too large. Dunno why they did it that way. It's criminal to leave out a temp gauge. Having fried a BMW engine (long story), I'm particularly sensitive to the ridiculous concept of an idiot light to tell the idiot his $9,000 engine is about to be toast. The radio situation is laughable. I've got a tin ear, so it doesn't affect me personally, but I can understand the plight of those who really enjoy their music.

I'm older than most of you guys, and I'm happy with the suspension. Actually, the first few weeks I drove mine I was amazed at how rough it rides! And the tramlining on the freeway really bothered me. So, not everyone thinks of it as being too easy, and I was coming from an elderly BMW--certainly not the easiest riding machine on the planet. Hubby commented that he really likes the seats in the R56--he hated the ride and seats when he rode in our kids' MINIs. Makes no difference to me.

I love putting my foot into it and getting instant response from 1500 rpm on up. A whole lotta fun! I had a friend drive my car a couple of months ago, and he couldn't believe the turbo. He's an experience racer and autocrosser--lots of sports cars in his past. Right now he's got 3 classic Porsches in his garage. His reaction--the magazines just don't say how much fun this car is to drive!

Another thing I like about the R56--fuel economy. I was appalled to hear that the MINI--that teeny, tiny car--could only get 25 MPG! The concept didn't compute. The Prince engine is so much better it's amazing. I get 33 and change on mine--calculated, not OBC. All the time.

Now, here's something I want the R53 guys to mull over. I think by now most of you have driven the "new" car, and have formulated your opinions. Where'd you get the car you drove? The dealer? Aha! How fair is that--you climb into a perfectly stock machine, and instantly compare to your own lowered and modded car. And don't forget the stock runflats, too. Reasonable? I don't think so.

One more word:

TURBO!

 

I dunno Deb. I've driven the R56 and loved it as well, that engine is a gem and I wish my MCS got the MPG you've got. I agree the SC engine just isn't the gem of efficiency that the Turbo is, but the power curve is completely different. The SC is more steadily increasing, and the turbo feels more like a tightly strung rubberband between the throttle and my calibrated butt-o-meter. I found the SC engine easier to heel-and-toe and rev-match, but that may be a matter of foot calibration. And that turbo has punch!

I like the whine. The turbo doesn't have that. Is it worth 3-5 MPG? Probably not, but I already own (and really like) my current MCS.

GREAT point on test driving. It's even more basic than that - once you're calibrated to "your" Mini's handling, ANYTHING else feels different, even a newer Mini. To really get the flavor, you'd have to "live-drive" the car, not just test it.

 

Re: the SC whine--just think of the turbo car as sneaking up on the other cars! And blasting by them!

 

Very true. Just don't fall into the trap of many critics and assume that R56 owners aren't tweeking and tuning thier cars, too.

What many feel in the demo car on standard (or even sport) suspention and runflats is not the same car that many of us are driving in the real world. Many R56 owners are just as critical of the "softened edges" coming off the lot. The reality is, though that most enthusiast owners of either generation car will taylor the car to their desires. Not too difficult to sharpen up some of those edges. 'Tis the natiure of MINI ownership.

Add an intake and swap out boost tubes (elimiating the intercooler mufflers). You might be suprised how that turbo howls when you get on it. Not quite as frantic as the SC... but pretty darn rewarding all the same.

 

I drove a modded R56 for a week. Coilovers, summer tires, huge stop-tech brakes, exhaust, short shifter, and a prototype DME tune that gave it some serious grunt.

Best part? The shifter. So my observations come from driving a stock and modded R56, and the modded test drive was for an extended period of time. I like to think that's fair, but as it happens, if people don't like your observations, they're automatically unfair.

mb

Edit - and my R53 is not lowered.

 

I knew some guy who had an 11 year old piece of crap car. He had plenty of money. His reason for not getting a new one? "I know where all the ***** are on this one." I'm hearing a lot of the same here, only disguised.

 

Really LynnEL? I never believed you could come to such simpleton conclusions.

 

Well, before I plunged into Mini-land, I had a choice to make:

A) or B)

A) sitting on the dealer lot, in dark-silver with an imported UK silver union jack showing proudly on the roof was a used 1.5yr old 2006 R53 with 8200mi on the odo, an extended CPO warr. and a $6K discount.

B) was a new R56 outfitted anyway I wanted (or for a slight discount, what ever the dealer had).

B had more power.
A had better steering.
I liked A's interior better.
I liked the go-kart handling of A better, and didn't have to modify it.

The sig says it all.
I voted with my pocketbook.

 

Careful, LynnEL will accuse you of being another closet R56 hater....