+1...

Let's face it, our cars are little hatchbacks that are
- stylish (subjective)
- really fun to drive (subjective)
- Extremely responsive (subjective)
- easy to personalize (subjective)
- require commitment on the part of the owner in terms of compromises on load capacity and reflex calibrations to deal with the immediacy of the handling (mostly subjective)
- aren't the "best" performing cars (in terms of performance numbers) for the money, but return "glee" to their owners in other ways or require commitment/money/tuning to generate those numbers (objective data, but subjective as far as owners modifying cars to get what they want out of them)

So... how can we have an OBjective discussion? By pointing out the differences and what we think of them. I like this thread for the ability to do that in the Mini civil Motoring spirit.

What I've found: the owners of BOTH varieties are really interesting people. and even THAT is, yes, subjective...

 

My capabilities never cease to amaze.

 

Well, this was a beneficial discussion. Can't believe it took you so long to chime in. Maybe by the time we get over this one you'll have 11,000 posts, with 99% of them in defense of make believe attacks on the R56, who so appreciates your ardent defense.

Get over yourself and your car. People are allowed to respect the R56 while admitting that it isn't necessarily in their taste. People are allowed to express those feelings. And you are allowed to ignorantly paint posts/posters with the same brush. So continue - you're entertaining, if not a little sad.

mb

 

Sounds like you know what you're talking about.

 

I started this topic to learn from OWNERS of 53's and 56's their opinions and real world experiences. I'd really like to keep it headed in that direction...



thanx,... JH

 

Let us know when you test drive both back to back.

mb

 

If discussing things with you were worth the effort, we'd try

mb

 

If you're talking to me, since you have read all of my posts (as I am sure you would not have announced that 99% statistic, being as fair and level-headed as you are), you already know (1) I owned and drove a 2004 MSC and (2) I have made many negative remarks about my R56.

 

This whole forum is about R56/R53 real world experiences. About 5 secs with the search tool would have provided more than you can possibly learn from starting this thread and more than you possibly want to know.

But every now and then some supposedly 'new' poster decides to start a flame war on R53 vs. R56. A few have raised my eyebrows about actually being new posters or just new names to some of the notorious R56 haters of past threads gone bye.

For the record, I have driven and like both.

 

Nope that was to the OP.

mb

 

I can assure you I *am* a new poster, an IP search can confirm that fact. I am NOT an imposter, or poser... Now, back to business at hand..

 

I wasn't referring to you in particular--you may note that I used terms like "you guys," not good grammar, probably, but intended to keep from singling out any one individual poster. Sadly, this thread seems to be deteriorating into the usual me vs. you format we saw before and shortly after the release of the R56.

I'm glad you took an extended test drive, and of a modded car, at that. Most people wouldn't have had the opportunity, or taken the time, to do that. You obviously have made the choice which is right for you, and for your own personal reasons.

I hope you'll allow us the same choice. We R56 owners have made ours, and apparently so have the folks who have taken delivery behind us...

 

Personally I think the R56 is superior in every way with the exception of:

1) Some find the ride too soft, but this can be changed with the Sport Suspension or JCW Suspension

2) Sits a little high

3) Prefer the lower belt-line of the R53

Besides those niggles, the fit and finish of the R56 and particularly the engine are much improved on the R56. And like someone else said, as far as performance, Alta is already getting 220+ WHP with their mods. That's like what, 260 bhp+ depending on variables!

 

Just out of curiosity, does anyone have the actual--by measurement--differences between the two models? I've seen the comparisons on the overall dimensions, but I wonder what the actual driving/seat position differences are.

 

I agree with this. The R53 is a much nicer looking car as well.

 

To me it's a toss up. Comparing the looks of R50/53 to R56 for me has become like entering the Twilight Zone where the visual appearance and the actual measurements don't seem to jive. In places R56 looks bigger where dimentionally they're actually the same, and places where I know they measure different the two models look alike. I stare at the two side-by-side all the time just bewildered. I could say R56 looks bigger and R50 looks more classic and then turn right around and say R56 looked more aggressively-poised and R50/53 looks more dated. I go back and forth on this all the time. Then I drive by the MINI dealership, look over and say, "Hey look...a bunch of MINIs"...like from that perspective they all look/read the same!!

Most of us owners are too close to the issue and drill into every minute detail...it's hard to back-off to a more objective point-of-view. For all practical purposes the cars are very much the same. Not to us maybe...but to most folks, yes.

I will say there were things with the original MINI design that never made sense to me and some of these have been cleaned up in R56, but I'm speaking more of the Cooper, which I think has taken a nice step forward. Even then, no one in their right mind would argue much with the Stephenson design, least of all me. I do think the MINI designers did a very nice job creating an evolutionary MINI to meet R56 design requirements. When I look at it on it's own merit, it still looks right.

 

I am sure there are many who's motivations are pure. But, the fact remains, those of us who own the R56 could have went with the R56 or earlier models. We made our choice. Not all those who have R53's had the choice, either due to finances or time of purchase. Some of the vitrol dispensed by them, especially the more baser, is not so much preference as sour grapes.

 

Yea, I thought you posed it as a question looking for a response, so I added my experience. I didn't think you were "calling me out" or anything like that. You make a very valid point that there are people with modded R53s who don't like the R56, and that this comparison isn't totally fair.

mb

 

That is a good point!


Some of the defense sounds like sour grapes, too.

mb

 

True to a point, but I think you're also discounting the basic fact of availability. Many of the R56 buyers weren't even aware of the R53 differences when they bought their vehicle, so it wasn't so much a conscious decision as much as it was "hey, it's what I can get".

Ignorance is bliss. Don't forget that too.

 

Ok, benefit of the doubt. (Although it is relatively easy to beat an IP search, my 15 year old nephew can). But I still don't understand your motives. I reviewed all your posts in this thread and other than your original post, old vs. new, turbo vs blower, you don't appear to be really asking anything, just occasionally dropping in and 'stoking the fire'. You state you can't search??

 

True. But, if you bought one thing when you wanted another when both existed at the time.... waddaya expect??

 

"Existing", sure. "Available new", nope.

That's just the point. If someone woke up today and said "I want to buy a new MINI!", they wouldn't have an opportunity to compare and buy a new R53 and a new R56.

All I'm trying to say is, please don't paint all R56 buyers as having made a conscious decision to specifically buy an R56 instead of an R50/R53, because most of them didn't.

The same of course applies the other way too - when the R50s & R53s were new, the R56 wasn't available yet either, so the opportunity to compare the two as new vehicle purchases really wasn't there.

It never really has been, unless you happened to find a 1st Gen MINI sitting on a lot that is still new, right after the R56s came out... and that time window was quite small.

 

Can't agree with that. The choice for them is/was a new R56 or a used R53 (or earlier). The choice of new versus old may have been more important than the difference between the 2 models, but there was still a choice. In any case, my point was that many R53 owners who are belittling the R56 may be motivated by the fact that the R56 didn't exist when they bought the R53 and, therefore, it is jealousy speaking. Note I said SOME. I am not jealous of the R53 because I chose the R56 after having had an R53.

 

Oh Please! I think the knife cuts both ways..... There have been documented cases here of R53 owners switching to the R56 and be happy and conversely, R56 owners going back to the R53 for whatever X or Y reasons. Ryan (Ryphile) comes to mind when he sold his R56 S and went back to an used R53 S. Most people would not consider buying an used MINI, so their only choice if they want to purchase new is either a R56 hardtop or a R52 Convertible. Sour grapes? Again I see this coming more from some of the most outspoken R56 defenders than the other way around. Some of the guys in the R56 camp are simply intolerant to views and opinion that do not favor or worship their favorite car. I have seen this both online and in personal encounters. If you don't like the R56, for whatever reason(s) you are labeled as a hater, troll, infidel, you name it. Personally, the R56 doesn't do much for me, hence my decision to order a Clubman which I find more visually appealing and more in tune with my specific needs/wants. Does the Clubman has the same irritants as the R56? You bet. But here I am, a 3 time R50/53 owner ready to make the jump into a "Motard" station wagon and honestly, looking forward to it. My suggestion is this.... If some of you are intolerant to opposing views, then refrain from posting in these threads. If you don't like my opinion or the other guy's simply click on the ïgnore" button and be done with it. These conversations are not worth getting your blood boiling over.