Or maybe it's just massive doses of misunderstanding. I myself was accused of being narrow-minded (thrice, I think) which I most certainly am not. Seriously, I sit around w/ MINI owners all the time and we work through all this as a matter of very civil and often humerous discourse...perhaps the internet volleys just get out-of-hand. I just don't think there is a good reason to "hate" any MINI. Preferences, however, are unavoidable.

 

The choice is tainted then. The new vs. old aspect plays a very large role in people's decision making.

Not to mention that most R56 buyers probably didn't even know really much about the older models when they went car shopping, because all of the dealerships weren't talking about them any more, were they?

The point I'm trying to make is that the differences didn't matter to most people when they went to make their purchase, because they were looking for specifically a new car or specifically a used car. In a few years, as more R56s start to show up as used cars, then the "used car vs. used car" choice will be more relevant... of course then it could also come down to remaining warranty as a deciding factor.

 

And the only point I am making is that there are SOME who got an R53 when an R56 didn't exist. Now that it does, they feel the need to announce "the R56 is ugly" "a disgrace to Minidom." What's the point? Does that provide any useful information? Obviously, someone who had an R56 and elected to get rid of it for an R53 is not one of those.

 

I just struggle with the R56 because of the new size... granted the first gen MINI isn't as small as the classic Mini, but the R56 is noticeably larger... it's like comparing a Civic to an Accord now. (Only relative to size!)

I think the R56 looks a bit dorky... the area where the side signal below the mirror used to be is ugly as a Pontiac Aztec.

I just feel like the R53 is much more graceful. Lest I mention the FAKE hood scoop of some R56's.... MINI: let's leave fake hood scoops to the guys with Mustangs and Camaro's.

 

See that's what's creepy...the dimensions aren't all that different!!!

 

There was no point, people were expressing their opinion, just as you express yours. Let me ask the reverse question - what is the point to constantly defending the R56? Why do you do it? Why do you care? You have your R56 and you're happy.

The truth is that different opinions will continue to exist, just as they always have. Make your choice, and be happy with it... and don't be upset when other's disagree.

I think they are both fine cars. Different, but both very good. My personal preference is for the R53, but I can totally understand why someone else would prefer the R56, and I'm fine with that.

If we could all just accept each other's different opinions without getting defensive, things would be a lot smoother.

 

I caught a lot of flack from the turbo Subaru guys for getting a supercharged R53. I had a choice of taking delivery of a late '06 R53 or waiting a few months for an early R56. Having gone through the frustrating position of being a 'full MSRP beta tester' modding my first year Subaru (buying mods at retail but having to complete the R&D for lackluster vendors), I thought it prudent to buy a car with a mature aftermarket rather than a car that companies were still trying to figure out (R56 with it's new PSA motor). Not to mention a first year car, especially a BMW, is a bad decision (note Krut's decision to trade for an early R56 for a later one due to issues with the early builds).

It's amusing for some in the R56 camp to imply R53 owners can't afford an R56. Perhaps downright insulting. Personally, if I wanted an R56, I'd come out with cash in pocket if I parted my car out and sold it to buy the R56. My R53 and all mods are paid for. No lien.

I was over at the local dealer yesterday, taking my MA for a ride. We had this very discussion....R53 vs. R56. He said he has no desire to trade his R53 for an R56. Neither do I. In fact, the whole discussion is tiresome. If I could build my 'perfect MINI', I'd take my R53 and swap in the R56 motor...turbo and direct injection are where it's at.

I've driven an R56....a modded one (Mach V's), on more than one occasion and with more than one set of mods done. It's a nice car. I bought my R53 to replace a '91 CRX Si. The R56 feels more like a late model Civic than the rough and tumble direct feel of my R53 and CRX before that. Pick your poison....both cars are more a driver's car than most on the road today.

 

I don't care if you understand my motives or not, quite frankly.... I posed 5 comparison elements for logical discussion, if you can't participate properly, then find another topic to venomize, I don't owe you, or your 15 year old, a reason to do, or ask, anything.... this is NOT my first rodeo in vehicle ownership searching, i've owned over 135 vehicles and I research them each for suitability, individually and accordingly... i'm very happy here, if your not, then bub bye....

JH

 

Actually I think LynnEl is right...people express their opinion fine, but face it, the new guy (R56) took a barrage of negative hits (almost unprecedented and often highly mean-spirited) that R53 never had to deal with. No one said R53 bonnet looks like a boated-toad, or the bull-dog grill was totally faux, or that folks almost had to mod R53 just to get it to run right. No...that never happened. Preferences are fine, but comparisons to "MINI being ruined" (or an AzteK for htat matter) are somewhat inflammatory, and that's just gonna generate a reaction.

 

On the contrary, people who bought the R50 and R53 heard PLENTY of it from owners of Classic Minis. Perhaps not as much here in the USA (due to their limited numbers), but internationally, and even to this day, it's still an ongoing gripe.

I agree that the anti-R56 backlash was particularly strong, right after it came out... but they've been out for over a year now, and most of the most vocal and hate-spewing commentary has died down. Do people still have their opinions? Yes... and I feel that most of them are far less inflammatory than they used to be...

...but the vehement R56 defenders still have thin skin about any criticism, and that's just silly... especially since it's all a moot point - you can't buy a new R53 any more, but you can still buy a new and custom-designed R56, can't you? So enjoy the R56 while it's in its heyday... because there's a chance that many R56 fans won't like the 3rd generation that comes out, and the cycle will repeat itself.

Bottom line - buy what you want (used or new). Enjoy what you buy... and ignore those who don't like it. Who cares? You got what you wanted and liked, right?

 

Somewhere on NAM I think there's a comparison of the actual dimensions. It's a matter of millimeters you're talking about, except for a couple of inches in length. VERY similar size, not enough really to pick up the differences. A lot of it is a visual impression because of things like window placement, etc.

Can't agree with your "dorky" and "more graceful" comments, but I guess that's what you feel. I don't happen to agree. I DO want to point out that the hood scoop IS functional. Lots of people don't realize that there are actually TWO hood scoop models. I don't remember when it changed--about mid year, I think--but the newer ones are open to provide cooling. I have a week 3 build, so mine is closed, and I have very high underhood temps as a result. There are threads elsewhere about this problem, and about some scoops actually having to be replaced due to deformation. I'm watching mine carefully, and will change to the open scoop somewhere along the line.

Of course, if you're talking about a scoop with respect to the supercharger, you're right. But you're not seeing the turbo air inlet.

 

Super rats--just wrote a long response to this and somehow lost the whole thing. I hate when that happens.

Actually, I did. Last December I was faced with a car that was fading fast, and I needed a new one ASAP. At the time our dealer had a large selection of '06s. They'd just received an especially large shipment, so I had about 60 cars to choose from, as I recall. With all that, I couldn't find my exact specifications--MCS/CR/W/6 speed/sunroof. I did hear of one at the other dealer in town, though.

Remember now, there wasn't an R56 in the land at the time--the dealer didn't even have pictures of the interior! Nothing to sit in, nothing to drive.

What made the choice between immediate gratification and an extended wait? Several things. Chief among them was the greater efficiency of the Prince engine. It's a crime to get 25 mpg in the smallest car sold in America! And the R56 certainly delivers with the promise of better mpg. I regularly get 33 and change from my MCS, calculated, not OBC.

Another thing was the promise the turbo made of greater low end torque. Boy, is it nice to get serious action from 1500 rpm on up!

The European press releases promised better seats, and a better suspension. Maybe the R53 guys think it's TOO soft, but it's still a heckofa lot harder than my 14 year old BMW, which wasn't exactly smooth riding. And we're just too old to want to drive with no suspension, which is what the R53 feels like to us. We've had our share of rough riding sports cars over the years! (I'm 57; he's 64.) Think British sports cars of that era; I also had a SAAB Sonett back in the 70's, which was even harder riding than the R53!

No difference in price, either. We couldn't justify paying the same price for a year older model.

So, we went back into the office and ordered my new car--December 13, more than 2 months before the R56's release date. Delivery was 2/21. It was a LONG wait, and I nursed my ailing car carefully!

 

Boy, I'm glad I'm not the only one puzzling over the visual differences...

 

Please don't use this term. It's very offensive to all of us who have disabled children. I know that "other" forum uses it almost exclusively, but I think NAM is a step above that...

 

Motard is a motorcycle.

1. Motard 86 up, 47 down
Short for Supermotard, a synonym for Supermoto. This is a type of motorcycle racing that places motocross-style bikes on combination tarmac/dirt courses.

 

Okay, I understand. Still uncomfortable, especially when I see certain t-shirts that unambiguously associate the R56 and "motard," and they are NOT referring to bikes...

 

She's right. I did the same. I almost bought a R50 in 04. Read everything about it. But when I looked into it I was aghast at the efficiency of the engine. I ended up buying an 04 Accord which only was 2 mpg less than the tiny R50 and the accord 2.4 liter is no slouch. I gave the accord to my wife and just drove our 99 CR-V until I decided what I was ultimately going to buy. When the R56 came out with its much more efficient power plant I was sold. Emissions was also a factor. The R50/53 has a pollution index of 1.0, highest allowed and in a few years not even legal for a new car. The R56 MC has an index of 0.39, better than most in its class. The other points she makes concerning ride and seats, etc. also helped push me back in. I read every European press release for R56 I could find and scoured mini2.com as they were coming out. I'm sure there are many who bought a R56 not knowing much on R50/53, but there are also many who understood the differences going in. I for one sure did.

 

I'm on that 'other' site. I don't drink the R56 hatorade as much as some, but the motard joke is only funny if people get upset about it. Don't let it bug you and it loses it's sting.

as for the debate about using 'retard'...I understand that completely. back in college, I worked with Very Special Arts....a group focusing on LD kids (or whatever the term du jour is now). My wife and I just had a healthy little girl....we agreed that if she was 'slow' (my wife is considered 'advanced maternal age' and it's a real risk), we'd love her the same and use of 'retard' would never be used with malice, only to bring some levity. Some might disagree with this. I'm ok with that.

 

now there's a GOOD post...

 

yep, good post...no doubt, the new engine is an improvement though I love the S/C sound. It's not fuel efficient by any means and the seats are much better on the R56. I took care of that with Recaro's.

 

Please note I said "most of them" not "all of them", and I still believe that to be true. Clearly both of you are exceptions, which isn't surprising to find here on NAM.

Very good posts from both of you though, telling your R56 purchase story. Thanks for the good read.

 

that every post that states "usually" or "many" will instantly get an answer "Mine doesn't" as though that is proof that the original post is wrong....

I've just given up on it....

Matt

 

I went to a local auto show 3 years ago and sat in an R53 and thought it was just the coolest thing. Especially after sitting in almost all the cars at the show. The next year (Feb 06) I went with my wife and the same thing happened. But only now she was saying the same thing. I had taken brochures and did a little research but nothing really happened. This year instead of going to the show we went for a test drive as we both admitted we only wanted to go to the show to see the MINI. Up to this point I had no idea the MINI had been retooled. We drove around and things were never the same! After that I did some more research and found out the 53 vs. 56 differences etc. I guess my point is that we would have probably bought a 53 (or 50) if that was available this year. It just so happens things changed.
We looked, we drove, we liked. And it was a 56.
I look at 53s and there's a lot to like there. Heck, there's even a temperature gauge! In fact I really like the instrument upgrade on the 53. Way cool. But on the other hand we both wanted auto so I'm happy we didn't have to get the CVT.
In the end they're both great cars and I'd probably be happy with either.
But I'm really happy with what I ended up with....

A MINI.

 

Funny thing about generalizations and assumptions...I might as well put in that I'm another exception to Edge's assumption about R56 owners and their knowledge and experience with R50/53s. There was an R53 spec'd at the dealer that was nearly identical to the R56 I had to order.

I'm amazed that a discussion of purely subjective items has raged for so long on NAM, but even more amazed at the number of people on both sides that apparently believe that their opinion of these entirely subjective items is the only possible valid opinion. There are certain things I prefer about the R53; there are others I prefer about the R56 that made it the better car for me. I spent some quality time in an R53 tonight (thanks Waylen) and definitely dig that car in its own right.

I hope that in the future R56 owners will remember the backlash felt from some of the more vocal R53 fans and not continue this cycle when successive MINI iterations arrive.

 

Good points all and an interesting discussion given the event of this past year.