Well, i finally got a Mini today, unfortunately, my experiance with the used car dealership I went to left me so angry I just can't enjoy it!

I decided to go ahead and adopt a pre-owned Mini. Mostly because My local mini dealership wouldn't work with me on my trade-in. (can't blame them, My trade in is a Chevy pickup and they just don't deal with pickups there.) So, on to Auto-trader.com I go...

I ended up at a Toyota dealership (Right Toyota in Scottsdale for you locals) that had a clean looking '03 Cooper S that seemed to just be calling my name. Other than being an S, it was pretty well stripped-down base, which is what I wanted. Grey w/ white roof, which is not my first choice in color combos, but not by any means repulsive. I couldn't find any problems on the test drive, I tested everything I could think of, with the exception of the driver's side power window. It had a dealer lock-box on it so I didn't want to knock it off. OK, all checks out well, time to start talking money...

I knew I was a little upside-down on my pickup financing. Blue-book trade-in on it was $11,000 and I owed $13,500. The price they had on the Mini was $22,999 which I told the salesman from the get-go was outrageous since I can get a brand new one with more features for the same price or less. I then told him the car would only be worth $17,000 to me but I could stand going a little higher to soak up my trade. He said he'd be flexible.

So, my offer... I'm upside-down by $2500 on the trade + $17,000 for the mini = $19,500 total. He, as used car salesman always do, takes the offer into the "magic office" 5 minutes later he came back with "we can do it for $4500 down and $680 per month"

WHAT???? I wasn't even talking payments yet, I was talking about asking price!! I should've walked out right then and there, but that's where I got incredibly stupid!! (I blame myself just as much as I blame these clowns)
I let them lure me into playing their game. I said I couldn't do more than $400 a month payments and didn't have any money down until I sold my CRX. (mistake#2)

He asks how much I plan to sell the CRX for and I explain it's a race car and I'm asking $4500 for it but by the time all is said and done would probably only get $2500. He said (sight unseen) they'd take the car for the down payment and indirectly skated around his wording to make me believe the down payment credit would be the $2500 (not a flat-out lie but pretty sneaky) again he goes into the magic office for another 5 minutes.

When he returns he comes back with an offer of $550/mo payments, no money down, and both cars in trade. I say no, too much. He's doing the whole "work with me here, we've gotta meet halfway" speech. (again, should've stood my ground, but stupid me entertains the idea) He walks away agin and this time sends the sales manager out to talk to me personally. He gives me this whole "your credit isn't perfect, but we're gonna give you financing as if it was" schpeal and comes in with a "how about $475?"

I finally get smart enough to ask "what's the final asking price on this deal?" His answer, without showing me any figures or having any paperwork in front of us, was "you're getting the Mini for ABOUT $20,000, plus we're paying off your pickup and using your CRX as a down payment" Then I turn stupid again and don't ask for exact figures. I cave in and say "ok"

everybody's all happy, I'm feeling ok thinking I caved a little but it's a nice Mini w/ low miles that apears to have been babied. 15 minutes later I go in to sign papers.

the guy at the desk start's flipping papers in front of me to sign doing the ol' "this just says the odometer is accurate" or "This just says the car has a clean title" and trys to rush me into signing without thouroghly reading everything.... and like the complete moron I am, I do. Mostly because I'm figuring since their trusting me with the CRX sight-unseen, I can trust them with the paperwork... WRONG!!! the only paper that has any prices on it he saves until the very last, and he slides it in so quick and smooth I don't even realise it is the paper with the numbers on it until after I sign.

Then he hits me with the first bomb.

He sugests I get some kind of "upside-down insurance" (can't remember the official name for it) and then explains that since I'm gonna be upside-down with what I owe on the car, this insurance would pay the difference off If I were to total the car in the next few months. I'm thinking out loud "I'm not that upside-down" and then he punches a few numbers in and replies "you're $4500 upside down"

Wait a minute!!!

"How can that be?" I ask, he says "Taxes, titles, and fees"

This is pretty upsetting now, but he quickly brushes me off back to my salesman to get my car so I don't have a chance to let this soak in.

The salesman brings the car up-front and hands me the keys saying "if this don't work out you can always come back and buy your pickup back, but you will have to BUY it back!" (his exact words!)

Hmmm...

Well, I head on down the road, feeling a little uneasy about things but feel stuck in the deal. I still had to go get the CRX and bring it back to them, and wanted to hurry up and get it over with.

To make maters worse, when I got on the freeway i finally went to put the driver's window down and IT DOESN'T WORK!!!!!!!!!!! opon later inspection it looks to be up too far and not closing into the door seal properly as well. I can hear relays clicking in the dash, but no motor buzz whatsoever.

When I got home I finnally pulled out the paperwork to see all the numbers:

Purchace price: $24,600
Trade in on pickup: $13,500 (what we discused)
Trade in on CRX: $500 (I could've parted it out for $5000!!!!!!!!!!)
Total financed incl tax etc:$27,364.50
Interest: 9.5% (THAT'S "perfect credit" level? i was paying 6.75% on the pickup!!!)

I was absolutely furious!!!!!!! I could've easily gotten a brand new Cooper S built to my exact specs for that much!!!!


When I was venting w/ a friend on the phone about the deal he told be that there's a federal law that states you can back out of a contract withing 3 days and I should go back and back out. So I went back.

The imediate responce of the sales manager was "Arizona is a no-(I forget the term he used here) state, which means that law does not aply here and once you sign, that's it." I got completely Irate, but was obviously getting nowhere with him because he kept trying to say what a "great deal" I got and that I wasn't looking at the numbers right. The only redeaming factor of my rant was that several other customers heard me and hopefully took closer looks at the offers they were being handed at this place. I finally just threw the keys and title to the CRX at him and told him to pick it up himself!

They did offer to fix the window when I told them about it, but I was so PO'ed that I told them I didn't want them touching the car. So it looks like I'll be fixing that myself (hopefully something simple and not a blown motor or something expensive like that)

My origional plan was to hold on to this Mini for a year or two, then trade it in on a brand new one, but since i'm so horibly upside-down on it It looks like I'll be keeping it for a while.

I wanted a Mini for the fun "Mini motoring experiance" but it's gonna be hard for me to get out of this initial rut of regret. hopefully a few "meet & greets" will pull me out of it.

Here's a pic, sorry for the poor cell phone cam quality:

So, If your driving around Arizona, and come across a gry/wht '03S w/ a driver that's not looking happy, my apologies ahead of time for being too distracted and not waving back.


UPDATE:


I called the sales manager of the dealership today and gave him my story, he of course said there was nothing he could do. But then I started reasoning with him on the CRX. Told him I knew as well as he did that a car that old, with just primer, and as "beat up" as it was (he hadn't seen the car so I may have exaggerated a bit on this part) was worthless to them. The wholesaler would probably only give them $100 or so for it but it's got sentimental value for me.

Well, he agreed and gave me my CRX back!

It's still far from making things "allright", but at least I can try to salvage some of the money back by selling or parting out the CRX.

 

In regards to changing yoru mind on a deal, I think that might be a federal law not a state law. I'd call an attorney for a free consultation first thing in the morning to find out. Sorry to hear of your bad experience with that dealership. I'd also scour through the paperwork to check to see if there is a clause about backing out of the deal.

 

Yeah, I plan to. Here's all I found in a Search:
http://www.azag.gov/consumer/threeday.html

 

Sorry to hear about your bad deal and it does seem the dealer took you for a ride. Just enjoy the MINI as much as you can for now. Seems this was a good and costly lesson for you.

 

There is no 3 day "cooling off period" in CA for car purchases...unless you bought it from a door-to-door salesman.

Enjoy your Mini. Everything else now is behind you.

 

Ack, I came across this when I did a quick search. Unfortunately it looks like you might be stuck.

 

Here is another link.

 

Yeah, and jeffery's right. I really need to try and put it behind me.

Now I just hope there's some factory warranty left to get the window looked at. I just found the tread stating it's a common problem and it usually is a blown motor!

 

Oh, and Simpson...

GO BEAVS!!!! :P

(I'm a Corvallis native)

 

Man it does sound like you were rail roaded. I have left dealers for tactics like that. In fact a VW dealer lost our business as this moron drew up the paperwork while we were still discussing options. He was hell bent on selling us the car on the lot that we didn't want.

Bottom line is that you really have to be careful when dealing with dealers as they always have the advantage (due to new car excitement).

That being said, just relax and enjoy the new MINI as it is all you can do now. You have a huge support group to help with any issues.

 

Hi Louie,
My wife bought a new Toyota 4Runner from them a few yrs back. Horrible experience. I can only sympathize with you bro.
You know, there are some consumer advocates on the local news channels that maybe can help... might be worth a shot.
Anyways, if you see a dark silver MCS with a driver waving like a lunatic at ya, that's me. If might not be an auspicious start, but enjoy the MINI. It's a great experience now that its here

 

Wow, you could have bought my '06 MCS for $2,200.00 less than you paid for that '03, sorry about your experience, you most definitely got the short end of that stick, oh well, I know you'll enjoy it, happy motoring

 

I don't know about law, but to cover your a**, put it in writing now!!!! Send them a certified letter, e-mail and fax telling them you are no longer interested in this "deal". That way, if you do have only 3 days, you can show that it was within that time you made the request. California does not have the cooling-off law, I don't know about any others? A shady dealer is going to have that initial response, cause if you drag your feet, your screwed.

But, then again if you choice to keep it, enjoy and have fun!

 

Man Louie, you really got a screwing. I'm very sorry for that. You fell for every trap they laid out for you. I know that you are much wiser now from your experience. I'd also like to thank you for posting your experience here. I'd guess it will help others from falling into the same traps.

 

Sorry to hear about your bad experience. Whenever you try to trade a car or truck and you owe more than it's worth they have you where it hurts. In my many years of buying new and used cars from dealers I always felt I got shafted somewhere in the deal. The exception has been the two MINI'S
I purchased new from a MINI dealer in Indy. I was always treated with respect and after I drove away I never felt I was taken advantage of. Go out and enjoy your car and I hope you have many trouble free miles. Good luck!!

 

Umm, did you read it before you signed it? I don't want to add fuel to your fire, just want you to enjoy your Mini and the fantastic support network you've got here, but it's important in any business deal to completely understand what you've got before committing.

On the plus side, you've got a really fun car and a great support network now, so if you can't do anything about it, put the deal behind you and begin to MOTOR!

 

Oy, you did get hosed pretty good. I hate when dealers use the trade-in math to jack up and confuse a transaction. Private sales are a PITA but anymore I prefer the hassle of selling a car myself to trying to figure out exactly what the dealer is trying to do with my trade-in.

The bottom line that everyone needs to remember is that there are TONS of cars that are exactly what you want out there. Don't let "new car excitement" cause you to make a bad deal - there's always a good deal on exactly what you want out there somewhere. Sometimes you just have to be a little patient to find it.

 

He was very good at hiding the numbers, (having me sign the non-numbers paperwork first and rushing me through, covering the numbers w/ his hand as he pushes the paper w/ the numbers on it over to me) but that's no excuse. I was the idiot who didn't say stop. I was the idiot who didn't read every detail before signing. As I said once in the origional post, I blame myself just as much for letting them swindle me as I do them. I've bought enough cars in the past (this is my 18th car!!!) that I should've known better.

 

Dang, Louie...I'm really sorry that happened to you.

The good news is, you're a MINI owner - and MINIs rock!

The bad news is, you met the worst of the worst kind of used car salesweasels.

It takes a big person to come on NAM, share their story, and openly express personal responsibility for some things that could have been done differently/better. It's valuable information/lessons for others. I applaud you for doing so.

 

What? you've seen pictures of me???

(I'm 6'7", 280lbs!)


... At least I'm starting to get my sense of humor back.

 

So wait they had you sign papers without any numbers on them? They purposely hid numbers while you were signing? And you had to go home to get the other car, did they offer you the trade-in value without an inspection? I mean I understand you learned a lesson there and you understand you got screwed, but holy crap. Seriously you should contact a lawyer about that, as well as your local news channel's consumer advocacy guy. Also email that whole thing to www.consumerist.com many of the readers will probably trash you for falling for it. But that site gets the attention of a lot of the big companies. Especially if it was a Toyata dealership, even though it was a used salesmen area.

 

Ouch! My 05 JCW Cooper S with 25k was only 21,000!!!!

 

Louie -

Sounds to me like you've just learned an expensive, yet valuable life lesson. Trust me, we've all done something similar at one time. I've got a lawyer friend (who incidentally is also a car nut like us) who lives very close to you, and I asked him to take a look at this thread and see if you have any recourse. I'll let you know what he thinks.

 

Cool thanks.

 

You know there is always the local news you can talk to, they seem to get things done when no one else can...