Just wondering if anyone is running an MC (not an S) for Autox... what mods did you do? thanks...

 

Yes, I run in H Stock and am limited to plug wires, drop in air filiter, brake pads, cat-back exhaust and shocks. Oh yeah and front sway bars (anybody planning to make an adjustable front bar that is softer than stock?)

 

Motoring,
Do you have the Sport suspension on your Cooper? If so, the best current option (given no adjustable front bars that go softer) is to swap to the non-sport suspension front bar of the Cooper. I don't have the diameter differences but it is softer and therefore reduce understeer and assist in making the rear of the car rotate. For a stock (non-Sport) bar contact Classic Auto Campus. You can find them in our sponsor directory.

Mark

>>Yes, I run in H Stock and am limited to plug wires, drop in air filiter, brake pads, cat-back exhaust and shocks. Oh yeah and front sway bars (anybody planning to make an adjustable front bar that is softer than stock?)

 

Mark,
yes I have the Plus suspension. Changing the bar is quite a chore and i would like to be able to compare them quickly.

 

Unfortunately this is about the only option since you can't raise the rate in the rear bar and be legal for H Stock. It does take a fair amount of time to swap but its about the only option available right now.

Mark

 

>>Unfortunately this is about the only option since you can't raise the rate in the rear bar and be legal for H Stock. It does take a fair amount of time to swap but its about the only option available right now.
>>
But on the flip side, if my MC has the "regular" Sport Suspension, can the larger Sport Suspension Plus rear sway bar be swapped in?
Since the SS+ was an available option on the MC, wouldn"t it still remain in H-Stock?

To clarify the MINI understeer, either soften up the front sway bar or stiffen up the rear bars, is that correct?

 

If you want to remain in stock class for SCCA, the rules state you will need to swap the entire package of the SS+ (front and rear springs, struts and bars). But, there is a loophole. According to the rules, the shocks and front sway are free, i.e. can be changed, all you have to swap are the springs and rear sway.
Just make sure that you buy springs from a dealer and have them print off the spring table from the computer to prove you have the correct springs in the car. There are a dozen different spring part numbers depending on how the car was optioned. Springs #'s do not cary over from the S to the Cooper. I bought springs online from an S optioned exactly like my car and then found out the part numbers are different. Off to Classic MINI, and order the springs from Germany.
There is no part number on the spring, each spring has two stripes of paint on it and that coorelates to the part number. I am unaware of a table that has the mystery of the paint codes explained with part numbers and options on the car. I have been trying to create a table but I have only proof of 2 spring part numbers and paint codes, I will have three when my SS+ springs arrive.
The good news is the rear sway part number is the same for the S as a Cooper with the SS+.

 

I too will be running my Cooper in H stock....(est delivery 4/30...!!!YAY)

As for swaping the SS+ rear bar.... the answer is no and yes.... you can swap the rear bar but only if you swap the entire SS+ package onto your car.... all but the front bar.... That said it is still very up in the air what suspension package is better.... I went with SS+ as more and more have but the regular Sport Suspension is good too and MINIs equiped that way have done well at national level auto-X events.... if I did not have SS+ on my car I doubt I would change it... I got ss+ because I have been autocrossing modified cars (street prepared and street modified) for many years so the SS+ makes the MINI feel right to me... that and I like a stiff ride on the street too...

The understeer can be taken care of in a variety of ways... sway bars are one way... and yes softer front or stiffer rear... but even tire pressure can help alot... and even better is alignment... going with a little toe out in the back will help alot to combat understeer... you can also use a little toe out up front for a quicker turn in... although I think I will start my tuneing with 0 toe up front.. and about 1/8th " total toe out in the rear.. if I can get that much.... Any autocrossers out there know how much toe you can get in the rear???

keep in mind your tire wear may very

 

ACK... me and FWD-mx5 ... similar reply at the same time...

Great minds think alike ehhh....

 

are your MC's driven on the street as well.. I just want to try my hand at autox with my MC but am reluctant since it is my daily driver.... that being said, what would be the best perf mod (aside from the lighter wheels/tires) that I can do to my MC and still be in H stock? rear sway bar? thanks.

 

^ ^ I am in EXACTLY the same boat.

 

For the rear sway swap you will have to do the springs as well, and OEM springs are as much money as any aftermarket springs I have seen. The best performance mod is a driving school. Evolution is the best, taught by national level drivers and a few National Champions. Your local SCCA will have novice schools throughout the year and these are much more reasonably priced. Aside from schools, good R compound tires will give you the biggest improvement. Try to find the OEM R 81 Imola 8 hole wheels and slap some Kuhmo Victoracer V700s on them and go nuts. Good luck.

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<IMG SRC="http://www.teambodega.com/autoxgalle....jpg"> MC IB/W Sport, Premium, SSR Comps, Bridgestone S-03 Pole Positions

 

How do your times comare to the MCS's?

>>Yes, I run in H Stock and am limited to plug wires, drop in air filiter, brake pads, cat-back exhaust and shocks. Oh yeah and front sway bars (anybody planning to make an adjustable front bar that is softer than stock?)

 

I would definitely consider a driving school but unfortunately have not been able to find one in my area (so. cal.) so if you know of anything, I'd appreciate it.... I still have my orig. wheels (15 in. 8spoke) that I can slap on with some reasonably sticky tires... I assume with the short courses, there really isn't that much detriment to the car, is there? thanks.

 

Times compared to an MCS is not really a valid question, driver ability plays a larger role. I beat an S2000 by 2 seconds on a 56 second course and I have been beaten by a 1990 Accord. Going by the PAX (auto-x handicap) on a 60 second course with equal drivers an MCS has to only beat the Cooper by .29 seconds.

 

As for using a daily driver for Auto-X, most of us are in that boat. (inc me)... is auto-x harder on a car than driving to work... perhaps... depends on how and where you drive... Autocrossing you MINI will put extra wear on tires for sure... Brakes just a very little bit...( the object is to not slow down to much).... normally you will only shift once per run so no issue there, you will be running the car at high RPMs for a good part of an auto-x run... but the MINI is made for that....

In all my years of auto-x (arround only twice have I broken a car... both times it was a VW Golf and both times it was a CV joint.... BUT the VW in question was highly modified... making good power and had a Chassis that could pull incredible Gs and had a ride that punished the driver on the street... It was not a daily driver but I did drive it to and from events....

My take... come on out and play... your MINI will love you for the workout!!!

 

I have a 2003 Mini Coop in H Stock in region 50, UtahSCCA. So far this year one DNF, one second, one first .

SS+ with Koni adjustables rear and the OEM struts in front. Rogue Engineering Catback, Magnecors, KN drop in Filter, 4 points, silicon vacuum hoses, the R-84 16 x 6.5 X lite wheels with Hoosiers.

As much as I have tried I have not been able to increase rear toe out by more than 1/16 inch TOTAL. Though I would like to get 1/8 total. There just isn't any significant play. I have loosened all bolts with my suspension mechanic and retightened. Maybe got another half degree of negative camber, but there isn't IMHO any significant rear (and damn little up front as well) suspension adjustments one can make to the Mini Cooper and still remain in H Stock with the bolt holes provided, none of these holes are oblong or overdiametered.

Of course a greater offset to the allowable limit, 44 mm on a lighter wheel would help the suspension a little of course, by essentially moving the wheels out another 6 mm each.

Love the Mini Cooper in H Stock. Last year I did well locally in Witchita and NEOKLA SCCA racing my wifes Mini Cooper with the stock suspension, a 63 pound sunroof and 20 pound RV towing hitch plate welded to the front on Yokohama A520s. Loved it.

I'm much more competive in my purposeful H Stock 2003! R compound Hoosiers are worth seconds, school even more.

I am open to learn from anyone who has gotten meaningful toe out on the rears and meaningful negative camber without cheating.

GrasshopperAugs

 

I get my car next week!!! and I will be getting ready for an Atlanta Ga region event june 1st... so before then I will be trying to get things adjusted right... I will let all of you know how it goes....

 

I want to upgrade my rear bar to the SSP bar, but was not planning to replace the springs. Is there a good reason, other than the obvious one (that it makes the rear bar swap legal), safety or performance wise to change the springs?

 

Spring rates from stock to SS+ are different. The SS+s are about 20# stiffer, giving less roll and therefore flatter cornering. The flatter cornering will have less tendency for the inside front wheel to lift and more power will go to laden wheel powering out of a corner.

 

So I shouldn't do the sway bar only?
Are springs about $200 then? And what kind of labor are we talking about?

 

Okay, I'm really confused now.

I just got some more information from another board, MINI2. It seems like the springs vary slightly based on how the cars are optioned out; that is, more options/ heavier car is what changes the types of springs used--not sport suspension vs. sport suspension plus. Now I'm confused. I don't want to exchange the springs if I haven't added weight to the car--a 1mm difference in the sway bar is not going to add a considerable amount of weight.

 

>>So I shouldn't do the sway bar only?
>>Are springs about $200 then? And what kind of labor are we talking about?

Greg,

This is only if you are competing in SCCA Solo II Autocrosses....

If you want to stay in H-Stock, or any Stock Classification for that matter, you can't do anything with the rear sway bar. (SCCA Solo II Rulebook 2003 part 13.7.B)

Hope this helps

David
-V--V-

 

Thanks for the responses folks.

I'm just a novice looking for a little fun. So can I just change the rear sway bar?

I apologize for posting on the "Racing and Competition" forum, I don't think I belong here.

 

Greetings Greg67

You do belong in this forum! There are a lot of great people here with a lot of info to share. Hang in there and soon you will be having even more fun !!!

Best Regards,
Ron


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