I'd like to ask a general question to the autocrossers here. I've been autocrossing a number of years in a few different bimmers. I'm thinking very seriously about getting into a new MINI. I'd like to ask if anyone has a recommendation for optimum setup from the factory for autocross.

For example, is the basic MINI with sports package (I presume) already a pretty fair autocrosser, or is it still a bit underpowered?

To the S, is the extra HP worth the $$?

Also, does anyone believe that this "Works" package is worth the big bucks they are charging for it?

any other comments or advice are appreciated.

thanks

 

To get the Works kit? I wouldn't start out with it. I'd worry about getting the S (definitely worth the price) and making a few mods to that to give you some boost in the right areas (intake, exhaust, pulley, and ECU remap). Those four items alone will bump the stock HP (163) up to around 200hp and some change. Factor in an approx. 20% loss of power by the time it hits the wheels.

Next up is to not get the run-flats. Go with 16" rubber with some light wheels. Do not get the sunroof, tack on a sway bar on the rear and drop the car with some sport springs.

There are other things you can look at to reduce weight (like heated seats for example) but for now, the above setup is what I'd go with. You will have a very fun, fast, and great-handling MINI for less than $25,000 (with all above mods) if your car is relatively basic out of the factory.

haf :smile:

_________________
GO NAKED! - Debadge :smile:

 

1) I wouldn't get the works kit if you want to be cometitive. I believe it, was placed into street mod and then reclassed into street prepared.

2) With the S, if you do the supercharger pulley, that placed you into street mod this year as well.

3) If you want to use the S in STX, you'll have to do a limited slip to be competitive. In addition you'd most likely be in for suspension (with camber plates), intake/exhaust, and ECU.

4) From what I've seen the stock S was doing ok in the stock class, but it wasn't dominating.

5) Again, from what I've seen, the stock cooper with the factory sport suspension, raced in the stock class, is the place to be if you want to be competitive without much additional investment.

All that said about the autocrossing, if you're at altitude, I think the supercharger is almost a necessity for enjoyment out of the car in daily driving.

Mark Ferguson would be better able to comment on this as well, so I'd wait for him to post.

Dave

 

First of all, what class do you want to run in? There is BMWCCA and the SCCA. I am familiar with the SCCA so all of my comments will be about it.
Secondly, do you want to be competetive? If so how much? The problem I see people make is to mod their car to the nines and then get put in a class and get thumped EVERY week. Some people are very zen and say they only compete against the clock, but to measure improvement is near impossible since no two autocross tracks are the same. So they pick another competetior and gauge their performance against that person and tend to forget the mods and classes. The way to compete against everybody is to look at PAX.
To have the most competive car in PAX, you need to set up to the limits of the rules. With the regular Cooper being the overdog in H stock, you take a stripper with the sport suspension plus and add what you can- double adjustable, custom valved shocks, SSR Comp Rs shod with Hoosiers, the aftermarket exhaust with the lightest weight and most hp/torque increase, K&N drop in filter, a custom front bar with multiple adjustments (no one makes one yet) or a standard Cooper bar, magnecore wires. These mods are also what you will want for a MCS in G stock.
If you want to autocross in Street Prepared (SP), the complexity of the mods goes up as does the price of admission. To be more than locally competetive, your MINI will be street legal in name only. Think of your car now as a tool to race with, and then buy a truck and trailer to tow your car to events. GrassrootsMotorsports ran a DSP MCS at Topeka last year.
There is STS (Cooper) and STX (MCS) these classes fall between stock and SP, with the main difference being you must run street tires. You can have a well modded MINI and also have a fairly good street car. There are many more here with knowledge on STX, including dpayne1 and from time to time gowest.
Above these three is Modified and Street Modified. These are not for the dual purpose cars and are in fact fully prepared race cars. With a pulley mod alone you will be in SM where you compete against big HP low weight cars: M3s, Supras etc.
An MCS can be nationally competetive in G stock, and is very competetive in STX.
The Cooper is the car to have in H stock, I haven't seen it run in STS, but with the update/backdate engine swaps gone it will be a new ball game from here on out.
Hope this helps.
Chris

 

thanks for those very quick responses. I guess what I'm looking for is which factory setup is optimum for the available classes (in SCCA or BMWCCA). You mentioned that the Cooper is the car to have for H-stock. I'm glad to hear that. I've previously fallen into the "mods" trap with my M Roadster. In hindsight, I should have left it at stock. But it was a great street car.

I normally autocross in our local Houston BMWCCA and our classes are much like those in the Golden Gate chapter. If I can get the Mini optimized for an SCCA class, I may consider campaigning there. I just prefer the BMWCCA atmosphere (less competitive, more fun, more optimized for BMWs).

I have no illusions about being a nationally competitive SCCA'er. But, since I'm starting from scratch here, I'm just looking for the advice of those who've been through this. I'd like to avoid mistakes from the start and avoid costly aftermarket add-ons which I could have avoided if I'd set the car up properly out of the box. Like trading the run-flats for a good set of Yokos or Falkens.

On the sunroof, I know its heavy...but I really like the open-air feel (its the Z3'er in me).

thanks again

 

My car has the sport and premium packages (including the roof), it is not the best options to have on the car but I do not think the extra high centered weight is as much of hinderance as is my ability to cone on national courses. I added the SS+ by putting on Konis, (OEM shocks are legal so you need not buy SS+ shocks) rear bar and springs. (make sure if you do this you get the springs from a dealer to ensure you have the correct springs, there are more than 6 different part numbers for springs.)
If I were in the market for an street/autocross car I would get a stripper MCS with xenons. (it changes the OEM front spring rates)
For an autocross/street car I would get a Cooper w/SS+, sport seats, xenonns.
I love my Cooper, but it is a little underpowered for the street. Staying glued to a SRT-10 Viper on an on-ramp makes up for getting picked on by Hyundais and Kias at stop-lights.
MoFast-
Doesn't the BMWCCA give points for mods, and then class you according to the nature an number of mods?
Chris

 

Chris

Yes, the Houston chapter does have a vehicle and mods based points system.

The Cooper falls into our "B" class. It competes with cars like the E30 M3, the 1.9 and 2.3 Z3's and the E36 318ti.

The Cooper S falls into our "A" class. Its up against stock E36 M3's, E46 330, 3.0 and 2.8 Z3's, Z4's and the M Roadster and M Coupe.

Additional mods will bump you up into the next class if you're not careful. Right now the Cooper in stock form is assgned 32 points. The cutoff to go into "A" class is 39 points. Coilovers and a CAI would bump you up into the next class.

If you go all out and mod a MCS, you'd go into our super duper "AA" class and compete with the big boys (heavily modified E36 M3).


dave

 

>>
>>For example, is the basic MINI with sports package (I presume) already a pretty fair autocrosser, or is it still a bit underpowered?
>>
>>
I have the "basic" MC with Sport Package and fairs very well in H-Stock....at least here in Hawaii.
It is "bone-stock", run-flat tires and all. The only performance mod is the Schroth racing harness
I'm sure if I did some suspension mods (adj. shocks), lighter wheels, and race treads, I could get quicker times, but why? In showroom trim it is already "optimized"

 

^^^Through 2003 (3 events), Kohu'ulaMINI has garnered two firsts and a third in HS. Not to mention ==> at last Sunday's event, he placed 4th (out of 61) in PAX

 

You can't really go wrong with a cooper with SS+ in HS.... yeah you can spend $$$ on Konis, exhaust, ect .... but the second place MINI at Nationals was bone stock if I am infomed correctly... even the stock shocks do a great job... I am keeping my stock ones for at least the 04 season before I switch out to koinis....

 

Thanks for all the input. Speaking of that car at nationals, that was Karter Bollman driving I believe. Karter is a local here in H-town and participates in our BMWCCA autocrosses as well as being very active in the local SCCA runs. He can take any car and dominate with it. Its fun to watch him drive that chili red Cooper out there. Most folks with their M3's and Corvette's just watch in awe.

I'm really beginning to leave heavily towards the Cooper instead of the MCS for my purchase. This car is not going to be a daily driver anyway. It will be a weekend fun car and autocross car. On occasion, I'll take it to work.

If I get it with SS+ it comes with their wheels. I guess its not possible to get a different wheel without having to buy both. Here in Houston, the local Mini dealer told me that if I wanted a different set of wheels, I'd have to accept the ones that came with the sports package, buy the second set of whees, and then sell the others on my own. I was kind of dissappointed because they wouldn't subsitute the wheels I prefered, there at the factory. I'm wondering if this is something particular to this dealership (Momentum) or its the case everywhere.

In any case, I'm going to be ordering this puppy this week (maybe today). It will be Pepper White. I'm still undecided on the interior color but am thinking about going with the red cloth.

happy new year!

 

>>This car is not going to be a daily driver anyway.>>

We'll see, my friend...we'll see...


>> I'm wondering if this is something particular to this dealership (Momentum) or its the case everywhere.

I think that's the case most places.>>


>>It will be Pepper White. I'm still undecided on the interior color but am thinking about going with the red cloth.>>

That will be awesome!!!! Black roof or PW roof???? (I'd vote PW!)

_________________
'03 IB/W Cooper

 

if you order the car with individual options you can have the sport plus suspension with the standard wheels... thats how my car is... 7 holes and SS+ also I do not thing the sport package automaticly adds the sport plus suspension it is a seperate option I think...

 

What is your objective? If your primary goal is to be competitive in autocross, maybe Cooper is best for you. Personally, I couldn't abide the relatively anorexic acceleration. Get a ride in an MCS with the pulley mod. You really can feel the added power. Then get into a cooper and see the difference. I autocross for fun on occasion, and am not competitive. But every day I drive the S is fun. The pulley and, as I've said before, the 22mm rear bar are the best mods. $600. well spent, even if it makes me uncompetitive according to classifications.

 

Some free advice that is worth what you paid for it. Order the SS+ with stanard 7 hole wheels. These are the lightest OEM MINI wheel, which can be shod with Kumho R compounds and driven to/from event and the occasional weekend drive. Get the sport seats (in red cloth) as well they are much more comfortable and have better side bolstering. Also on the option sheet, order the xenon headlights. This will give you stiffer springs than a stripper car with maybe 10 extra pounds.
The fisrt call after you order your car is to Alex to get the SSR Comp Rs, which makes wheel choice irrelevant so save the $500 for the five spoke boat anchors. Best of luck.
Chris

 

what's the weight on the 7-hole wheels?

 

found the weight on the 7-hole wheels.....12 lbs..holy crap! that's light!

if they are that light.....wonder if it makes sense to use these as autox wheels and find some r--compound rubber to put on them. Then I'd get some street wheels (maybe the R84) with run-flats for daily driving.

One question, would the 15" tires be better for autox? (I'm thinking gearing on the tires) or would it be better to have the largest wheel possible in the lightest weight?

 

Not an autocrosser but have a MC with SS+ and drive it daily to downtown DC. The car is not to harsh to be a daily driver and as long as your willing to wind out the gears not too slow. Good for stop light to stop light fun.

I love this thread. Have always wanted to autocross but often work weekends. Good luck to ya
John

 

The 15s are 5.5" wide vs the 6.5" of the 16s. With the 15s you are limited to 205/50 15s in either Kumho V710s, V700 Victoracers, Ecsta V700s, or Hoosier A3SO3s, A3SO4s -overall diameter of 22.8". With the 16s you can get Hoosier 215/40 16s A3SO3s only (for now)- overall diameter 22.7". There is also 205/45 16s in Ecsta and A3SO4s- overall diameter 23.0". So the 215s will spin up faster, and are the widest you can get on an unmoddifed MINI. In addition there are the SSR Comp Rs in SCCA stock legal 16x6.5" and are lighter than the 7 hole 15s. Hope this helps.
Chris

 

Ok....its a done deal!

not quite the car that I started out with.....

in the end, could not pass up on the MCS........and also the red.......

SO

Its going to be a Red/Black MCS, no sunroof.........

now the anticipation begins

 

the mcs is not a bad choice as it still handles well WITH ecsta V700's. it has too much power for the crappy runflats. one of our mcs' is stock and we put some ecsta v700's on it and it is easily a top ten car....OVERALL...without pax...handicap. of course like all scca events, regionals, nationals, blahblah, the results will only be as accurate as the people who show up/are able to show up.

glad you got no sunroof. just added weight and more to tint.

personally, the mcs could use the pulley and be very very competitive, if we could just convince a local JCW owner who let me test drive his car, to allow me a shot at autoX with it on my tires, i am pretty sure a top 2-4 overall ranking could be had.

oh well.. b

 

Great, congrats on the purchase!

I was going to suggest, buy the MC, No Sunroof, with Sport suspension.
Take off the runflats and put on some LIGHT wheels, like 17" Volks or Work Wheels with sticky tires.

That should get you into competative speeds.

After reading the other threads, particularly the MC mod threads, it seems that there are some very promising advancements being made. Looks like some MC's will be tearing up some of the heavier modded MCS's soon!

- WCC

 

just as an update to this thread.....I have changed my order to a Mini Cooper, chili red/black, tartan red, no sunroof.

this is pretty much going to be a dedicated autox car (not a daily driver). It appears to me that the Mini Cooper is a fantastic autox car right out of the box (minus the run-flats). If I were daily driving this, no question, it would be the MCS. But I'm not. I'm going to hold onto my '97 E36 328is (black on black) for daily driving. It just rolled over 100k miles but I think it will work for my commute a bit longer.

Meanwhile, the pretty little red car will stay in pristine condition in my garage. It will be used for autox, social drives (with my local BMWCCA), and concours. Yes, I'm going to concours it. There's nothing more fun than slathering Zymol all over a brand new car.

 

Man, this thread is just what I wanted. I am in the EXACT position here.

The car I was thinking of was a MCS (Cooper S if I understand the shorthand) with only the Winter pkg (it's Nebraska afterall) and cloth interior on the 16x6.5's Then find some lightweight wheels and mount up some Kumho Ecsta V700's and have at it in G Stock. I am not a National caliber driver but I do OK Regionally and Divisionally. (Nebraska and DesMoines regions of Midwest Division)

I was thinking the MCS vs the MC because I also do DE's with the BMWCCA and want to at least have a chance on the straights here at MidAmerica Motorplex and Heartland Park Topeka.

ARE the 16's the way to go or should I look at the 17's?

Am I chasing the wrong car set-up here? Are the other packages helpful for a conechaser?

BTW... this is my first post here (if you couldn't tell)

Jan G.
Ralston, NE

 

The 16s are the way to go for auto-x/track. I like having an extra set of wheels, so if you like the S-Lites (17s), order them with your car and use them as your road wheels. You will only pay $600 for them and they have the classic Minilite look. Then try to snag a set of used X lites (16&quot off the marketplace.
You are definately not chasing a poor set up here. If you can carry more speed into the corner, you will carry more speed out, and it takes a long time for a faster car to overcome their slower exit speed.