http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=16951

Please be careful out there....at the speeds we're driving it's easy to lose sight of the fact that anything can happen at any time.

 

RIP John.

Condolences to his family & friends.

 

How did it happen ? I see it was an M3 , red #88

My prayers are with the family , I would have been there if it weren't for my vacation

 

I will be at Mid-Ohio this next weekend. Does anyone know any particulars of the incident? I understand that he was in a M3. Our prayers are with his family and friends.

 

I always wonder when a tragedy like this occurs. Was it equipment failure? Was a terrible mistake made?

I do know that it makes me think, & makes me be even more careful about the things I do when on track.

I'll see you up there Saturday. Not running, but I'm shooting pictures for a friend.

 

I spoke with a friend who has his Porsche worked on at the same shop that Jon has his Cup car prepped at , Wright Tuning .... here in Cinci, OH

The story is that a 944 Turbo dumped oil onto the back straight, on-line ... several cars spun or slipped, and Jon Engle, in his Red M3 didn't see it and ran into him at around 80 mph, into turn 7, brakes ineffective becuase of the oil

Car was crushed, crushed him ...

Here is an UPDATE: http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic....4e50244a06e4a1

GTS
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[SIZE=1][/SIZE][SIZE=1][/SIZE][SIZE=1]Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:00 am[/SIZE] [SIZE=1] Post subject: [/SIZE][SIZE=1][/SIZE] Do to all the miss information about this I have the ok to post this from the people who mattered most.

I have done my best to correct posts of miss information from around the web. If you know of something I have not found please ask them to edit the post or send me a link and I will.

NASA is the Best, this is the only board that has stay away from pushing for details true or not...... Thanks

Be safe,
Paul Hamm

Description of events-

Larry Collins driving a 944 lost his motor at the kink or about half way down the back straight. Larry went to drivers left as his car was filling with smoke and with limited visibility he felt that there where faster cars on the inside passing him. He went into the wet grass and slowed to a stop beyond the end of the straight. The 944 was in or next to china beach to the far left.

As John Engle in his M3 made his way around the track the starters flag station on the back straight was showing the debris flag, and the next station at the end of the straight was showing a yellow flag. The station at the top of the hill was clear.

John was around 10 sec. in front of the 944 when the engine let go, so it was around a 1:20 later he was making his way down the back straight. As John entered the area he went thought the oil and started to spin. The two cars came together 1:34 sec after the 944 came to a stop, right corner of the 944 to the left A pillar and door area of the M3. The cage on the M3 was pushed in enough that it had trapped John’s legs so that when he tried to get out he could not. The cage was cut away and John could move his feet as he was on his way to the hospital.

At the hospital it was discovered that John was bleeding internally some where in the upper chest cavity from the rate of deceleration at impact.

Larry hurt a muscle in his leg along and has a sore neck but will be fine.

*****
If you feel the need to discuss details please due so privately (PM's, Email, Phone) and as we keep this to well wishes for the family. Thanks to all of you.
http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic....4e50244a06e4a1

 

I didn't know John, but as a driver, feel an immense sense of loss. Life is so uncertain, and we are so frail, even when wrapped in a cocoon of safety devices. I cannot fathom the pain of his family and friends at this time, and can only offer my sincere condolences.

I shall also be at Mid-Ohio this coming weekend, for a BMW CCA HPDE, and feel some apprehension, to say the least. Not knowing the particulars of the accident is unsettling. As stated above, unknown are the causes...human or mechanical failure? Such a tragic event having happened [and at the very same track] will definitely sharpen my awareness of what is happening around me this weekend.

 

I partially spun at that same corner last July at a NASA HPDE when a Blue Ford Focus lost his coolant on line and I never saw it, just all-of-a-sudden my MCS was sideways, I went 2 wheels off, regained it by accelerating, not sure why at the time ...

I got yelled at in the classroom, i said "i have no idea of why it happened," then the guy feased up about his coolant. I felt better about my driving

 

Well, this has sure brought things into a different perspective for me. Before, it was just a driver's school for me...something to help me to learn more about my capabilities as a driver as well as those of my car. I guess it never really dawned on me as to the extreme danger element [or maybe I wasn't going so fast as to be unable to correct myself]. Even so, while I SHALL be driving to learn, I WILL be careful not to take anything for granted out there.

 

Thanks for posting that. I'm not a ghoul, but knowing the facts can & will keep others from repeating history. Sad as this is, we should all learn from it.

I guess a lesson from this terrible tragedy would be to really take the flags seriously. (I am not implying that this poor fellow didn't)

I've been guilty of not doing so in the past. I know when I raced I used to use a yellow to close the gap on the car I was chasing. I've also pretty much disregarded debris flags for the same reason. Anything for the win Eh?? Yes, very very stupid.

Now that I don't race & just do track days in my MINI to put a grin on my face I'm very aware of the flags. That being said I'm not sure I wouldn't have fallen victim to the same set of circumstances that John the M3 driver did. The kink is a hella fast place.

If you see a yellow, standing or waving slow down. If you see a debris flag it could be anything from a groundhog to an oiled track. Let's please be careful out there.

 

I was out at Mid-Ohio for a DE last week (Monday & Tuesday) with MOR-PCA. In the driver's meeting Monday, they informed us of the accident. It was raining quite a bit at that point and made for a very sobering time. There was so much water that speeds were kept low, but you could tell that many people had the accident weighing on their minds during that first session.

We didn't end up driving on Tuesday because of all the flooding.

 

Wow this sucks. I having been doing hpde sessions for quite some time and I recently decided to move into TT before going to competition. One of the things everyone has been stressing is the safety factor. Hearing things like this keeps me spending more and more on safety equipment. Is it known whether he had a nascar door bar? I know they are not mandatory but I heard NASA is thinking of making it so in about 2 years. Was there anything non mandatory he didn't have which could have possibly saved him?

 

I don't have those answers for you. These are things I'm wondering about myself.

Money spent on safety equipment is money well spent.

There are times when it just all goes wrong.