It is something you need to get used to. My 3000GT had it, My Escort GT had it & my Probe GT had it. Now my JCW has it. It does not bother me at all because I learned that the car still goes where I'm steering it. It is no different then learning how to drive a rear engine Porsche at high cornering speeds or learning to control the wheel hop of a powerful Corvette C5. Once you get the characteristics it becomes second nature and you hardly notice it.

Front wheel drive cars are lousy drag racers but from a roll on they sure do accelerate fast. Ya just gotta hang on and enjoy the ride!!!!!

 

Very well said...

On a more common problem, I get customers that bring their cars in and the alignment may pull hard to the right.

They've driven their cars so long with it pulling to the right, they don't even notice it.... that is until they get another alignment and all of a sudden it doesn't pull.

Back to the OP's original question, I'm not comparing the JCW to some exotic sports car, it's simply a fun car that that gets good gas mileage that is more than holding it's own on the track.

I've gone to a lot of tracks that I've had guys in Porsches, Corvettes and other brands come up to me after the race to enquire about the car because they said they were impressed with how well the car does on the track.

I blamed it on the driving...


Mark

 

I regulary track my car, so Eric at Helix Motorsports in Philly recommended replacing the stock rubber bushings with urethane bushings.

I didn't want to try this unless I was sure 'cause it takes about 3-4 hours of shop time to drop the front subframe on an R56 to get them installed.

Between the shop time, the cost of the bushings, then an alignment, I'm looking at $500-$600 dollars to get this mod done.

I've got two questions.

1) Did the steering response feel tighter after the new bushings were installed? (No wandering feeling at high speeds)

2) Are the urethane bushings loud? (I hear they are kind of sqeaky when turning the wheel at low speeds)

Thanks for your reply.

 

Sorry, can't answer those questions yet... just installed them. Here's the link, now you'll see why I don't know...lol.


Mark

 

This may just may the best advice yet. Thanks ronnie948. I thought I was the only one who was experiencing this behavior with the JCW.

 

Just wait until you start pulling 250/300 at the wheels, you'll definitely learn to deal with it.

Not even noticeable any more.


Mark

 

The R56 bushings are made out of pure, delicious Belgian CHOCOLATE. They're rubbish

 

Hmmmm, that would explain why I always wanted a glass of milk after I drive the car.... wierd.


Agreed!

Mark

 

I took your advice and brought the JCW to the dealer to have the front end checked out. The right front control arm bushing is shot! That's why I was getting too much torque steer under hard acceleration on the highway.

Besides the control arm bushing, the front right brakes have less than 1/3 pad left. So they are also replacing them. I always had more brake dust on the right front wheel than the driver's side. This makes sense because I ride with the EDLC on most of time to control the torque steer. MINI tries to reduce torque steer by having the electronics activate the brakes on the side that is spinning too fast. Since the right side drive shaft is longer than the left, that side needs the most braking applied.

Believe it or not, I only have 19,800 miles on the car. So thankfully, all this is being taken care of under warranty.

 

Glad to hear you found your problem.... let us know what you think when you get it back.

Mark

 

it should only be braking if you are actually spinning that tire - fairly hard.. Do you spin your tire so often?

 

I don't lay rubber if that's what you mean. My understanding is that when the car is under hard acceleration, torque steer occurs since one wheel is rotatating at a faster rate than the other, usually the result of unequal length drive shafts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque_steering

Here's another thread in the forum that talks about using EDLC and wear on the brakes. https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...s-for-r56.html

 

I read a lot about the EDLC and comparisons to a real Limited Slip Differential when I first bought the JCW. I opted not to get the factor LSD expecting the electronic capability to do an adequate job. I started autocrossing in Jan 2010. Torque steer with the JCW is significant when you're really pushing to the edge on both the track or in autocross. After much research and advice I finally installed a quality LSD. A good LSD is transformative for most cars but especially for the JCW. Next to lite racing wheels and good tires it is the single addition that will make the most improvement in handling and driving performance. The EDLC just doesn't come close. I got the OS Giken LSD but the Quaife is also a very high quality, popular product and somewhat cheaper than the OS Giken. The effects of a good LSD simply can't be simulated with electronic braking. MINI should make a high quality LSD an optional buy. Their previous standard LSD might have been ok but a high quality would make a huge difference.

 

Finally, I'm so glad that someone else who tracks their JCW is on the same page about the EDLC vs a mechanical LSD for controlling torque steer.

I'm interesed in the LSD. How does the LSD you installed interface with the EDLC? Did you disable the electronics? Do they play together nicely?

Your thoughts are appreciated!

 

Yeah, good question since I just installed my OS Giken LSD this week. Once the car is back together, I'm hoping to make another track event in Nov.

Mark

 

Keep me posted. I have a track event on Oct. 18. I wouldn't be able to install an LSD before that, so a Nov. timeframe works for me.

 

The edlc isn't going to do anything unless you lay rubber type of spinning. Small differences in wheel rotation speed will not activate edlc. If that were the case it would activate everytime you went around a corner since the outside tire spins quite a bit faster than the inner.

You can have torque steer without spinning your tires. I'd go as far as to say in most peoples experience of torque steer, they were not spinning the tires.

 

How do you install the LSD on a JCW and did you keep the ELDC?

 

I'm going to have to disagree on your description of EDLC functionality. It does work on preventing wheel spin during agressive cornering. Below is an except from one of MINI's own marketing articles on the factory JCW:

"Additionally, the DTC system comes with Electronic Differential Lock Control (EDLC), which essentially functions like an LSD (slowing the inside wheel in a corner to prevent wheelspin), but does so by adding brake rather than some sort of complex “power-splitting” axle setup. Both the DTC option and EDLC are technologies that aren’t found anywhere else on a front-drive car."

 

What part of that statement disagrees with me?

Before you say "it says PREVENTS wheelspin".. look who said it. MARKETING.

It prevents EXCESSIVE wheel spin. It does not get rid of it completely.

edlc isn't going to to anything until that inside wheel starts to spin at which point it'll apply brake pressure. The system does not apply brake pressure to the inside tire every time you go around a corner.

 

Sorry, but I still think you are still wrong. Here is similar verbage on the MINI website itself:

http://miniusa.com/#/jcw/JOHN_COOPER...yMaintenance-i

Show me a statement from MINI supporting your take on EDLC.

 

The answer is basically one of semantics (i.e., does the EDLC wait to detect a tiny amount of slippage on the inside wheel and then apply the brake a fraction of a second later, or can it somehow predict impending slip and apply the brake beforehand?)

The same question could be argued about ABS systems. The manufacturers will tell you it prevents skidding, but does the system actually prevent skidding 100%, or does it wait for the wheel to lock up for a microsecond before releasing the brake pressure? The end result is the same, but you're not going to find a definitive answer in the marketing brochures.

I think it's too fine of a point to get the truth from the consumer-friendly description that MINI marketing has put forth. Your best bet would be to find the manufacturer (GKN Driveline, perhaps? - I know they made the mechanical LSD on earlier MINIs, and they also make EDLC units) and either look up a technical description of the system or check out the patent application for MINI's EDLC.

For what it's worth, I can easily see how the EDLC system could take the inputs from the steering-angle sensor and the wheel speed sensors and detect even a tiny amount of slippage of the inside wheel and apply the inside brake to stop it, but considering the sensors available, I can't figure out how the system could predict imminent slippage and apply the brake in anticipation.

 

You can take it or leave it - I don't care.

 

I agree. What we are arguing here is not what the EDLC does, but when it does it. In my estimation, it kicks in sooner than you think it does.

Here is a quote from another thread on the forum which states that the EDLC is "predictive" not reactionary.

 

Couldn't find a LSD for the JCW on their website.