Anyone do a back to back drive in both cars to compare performance?

Discounting the handling benefits the JCW would have, only concerned with the throttle response and acceleration comparison. Not a track nor a X-cross guy, Just an around town "off the line" to 9 miles over the posted limit, traffic darter.

Going strictly w/ the numbers and the superior torque numbers produced by the MCS w/ the JCW kit, wondering if the MCS isn't a more responsive car than the JCW.

I know if you add the NM power module for sure the MCS is a faster car, but only concerned w/ the factory approved modifications in this case.

in 2018, I plan to trade our 2015 MCS w/ the JCW tune for a new MINI. I want to get a loaded JCW, but love the instant acceleration I get with the MCS and JCW tune kit. Hate to spend the extra thousand$ for the JCW and get the same or maybe less than I have now.

If BMW would boost the JCW HP by 25 or 30 w/ a similar bump in torque, it wouldn't be a concern. But on paper, the JCW appears to be a bit neutered compared to the MCS w/ JCW tune in the torque @ RPM department (which is where the real performance is). Bigger torque numbers early in the RPM range trumps more HP. Something the MCS/JCW tune has over a stock JCW.

So looking for anyone that may have some "butt dyno" stories they would care to share between these two cars.

Thanks Guys.

 

funny you should mention this, just last week a few of us went down to the dragon for a few days and on the way back, we decided to have some "fun" (full disclosure: public road, but no cars at all. if you don't approve, go read another thread) to see the differences.

JCW: Manual, only mod was the JCW Coilover kit.
Me: MCS Manual, JB4 on Map2 (or was i on map1, i dont' even remember), Helix FMIC, AWE Exhaust, Intake, & Mario Palza Downpipe.

when i had the car dynoed back in January, i was @ 272. This was exhaust, intake, and burger stage 1 beta set to +6. it was only afterwards that i swapped out for the JB4 as well as the FMIC and Downpipe.

Mathematically, i thought i would have the edge, strictly from a numbers perspective. his 232 vs my 272 i thought that the 40hp would make some difference (at least noticable). at the end, we were pretty much neck and neck. he showed me this thread so i'm hoping if he wants, he can put up the video. we did a few runs the day earlier and when i was in 3rd gear, he was in 4th.....and when i was in 4th he was in 3rd...pretty funny (no it wasn't ).

ultimately, we finally started off on 3rd gear and a 3rd car counted us off (we were on walkies). he slowly pulled on me in 3rd gear, but then i pulled on him (slowly a well) on 4th gear. i jumped into 5th gear but he was still in 4th (i had changed to 4th while he was still in 3rd). we ended @ about 125-130mph and at the end, it was too close to tell. i personally feel he may have had the edge on me, but again, so many factors could have had different results.

now, what am i dyno'ing at now? i actually have no idea but i intend to find out. my only baseline is Burger Stage1 beta, Intake, Exhaust and i hit 272HP. i had been meaning to do some comparison between the downpipe and the stock cat...hell even i think someone in the west coast said he was running lean with the downpipe so they went back to stock. i'll try to find a dyno next week and then take it from there. if my results are lower than i know something changed that shouldn't have, which at this point could be:
- downpipe
- FMIC
- switching from burger stage 1 beta to the JB4

hope this helps.

 

Before I bought my JCW back in February, I test drove both the S and JCW in manual. The S did not have the JCW tune.

In sport mode, I went WOT in 1st and 2nd to 5k, and the S felt a bit faster. I noticed a slight amount of torque difference. I drove the JCW first and was really surprised after driving the S.

 

you get an awful lot for the extra 5k if you ever do decide to do trackdays or autocross you will appreciate the brakes, seat and aero

 

I've owned both. Both had Burger tunes. The one advantage of the JCW is the extra torque. In practical driving and overtaking...not full race...the JCW is better. The MCS with a Burger tune is really great and fun. You should be happy no matter which car you own!

 

Great info guys. Really was hoping to get some comparison between the JCW and the MCS w/ the JCW Tune kit.

Mine runs great w/ the JCW tune kit and exhaust. Wondering how a stock JCW would compare.

 

Well I guess it would be logical to compare any published dyno numbers for the tuning kit vs. a JB4 equipped MCS like Marco's. You know w/ Marco's mods you can run with a stock JCW.

 

That's true, however numbers don't always tell the whole story.

The torque number my MCS w/ the JCW tune is actually greater than the stock JCW (although the Stock JCW has more HP). Also the MCS w/ the JCW tune kit gets that torque at a lower RPM, thus making the MCS more lively at lower speeds and RPM's.

If I had access to a stock JCW for 15 minutes I could likely tell how closely it matches my MCS w/ the JCW tune performance. If they are close of if the JCW is significantly peppier or less peppy.

So I'm looking for someone that may have a friend w/ one or the other that could give me some insight with a seat of the pants experience.

I could bite the bullet and spend the extra $5K on the full JCW if it matched my MCS performance although it would be far easier to write the check if the JCW was clearly the peppier of the two.

Just went through this head to head comparing the Audi TTS and the BMW M240i. Was looking for something that captured the performance of the Mini and its playfulness. On paper both seemed comparable, but the BMW was a far and away the better performer and more playful of the two. Throttle response w/ the BMW was outstanding, Audi basically had none.

Just "blipping" the throttle of both told me all I needed to know. Once I decided on the BMW and tested more of it's limits, I was sold and ordered one. The Audi may be a bit more surefooted at speed in corners, w/ the Quattro, but for me the BMW won in "spades".

 

you will like the 240, I still have my 135i I bought new in 08 I like it too much to even look at the newer 2's

 

Didn't Ryphille do a thread comparing the gearing on the JCW vs S back then? That would explain why the JCW is performing better at even lower HP and TQ than a modded S.

 

http://www.minif56.com/forum/289-min...ng-ratios.html

 

Not sure if you have read this but it has interesting dyno comparison between the 2 cars

http://www.motoringfun.com/2015/11/0...cw-tuning-kit/

I also read from someone on F56forum who test drove both mCS with Tuning Kit and JCW back to back before choosing the MCS w/tuning kit as he felt it offered more low town torque so more useable day to day where as the JCW had a little more peaky delivery (compared to MCS with kit).

Obviously his thoughts were subjective and he never mentioned anything about the braking advantages of the JCW or handling (both could have had VDC which they would be the same and also sports suspension option is still available in UK)

 

Thanks for posting. Yes, have read just about everything on Pedro's car including that article. Which is what prompted me to start this tread. The torque produced w/ the Tune kit compared to the JCW is rather telling and should be quite noticeable in a "back to back" test drive.

The MCS w/ DDC handles quite nicely for my needs and the brakes function to my expectations. If I bought the JCW, I'd opt for the DDC just to soften the ride.

Again, we all have our priorities on what we think is important in a car. For me it's more about throttle response, acceleration and playfulness of the car (darting about in traffic go kart like feel). The MCS has that (at least as much as I'd ever use).

Was hoping the JCW would add about the difference I felt going from stock to the JCW tune to my car w/ the tune to the JCW. Apparently that isn't the case. in fact, it appears that the JCW will actually give me less of what I'm after than the MCS I'm currently driving.

Factory JCW:
Wheel Horsepower: 220.33 whp
Wheel Torque: 219.66 ft-lbsCrank Horsepower: 246.77 bhp
Crank Torque: 246.02 ft-lbs

F56 Cooper S w/ JCW Tuning Kit:
Wheel Horsepower: 206.53 whp
Wheel Torque: 236.99 ft-lbs
Crank Horsepower: 231.31 bhp
Crank Torque: 265.43 ft-lbs

As it stands, as much as I like the JCW and want one, I'd be better off reordering a MCS w/ a JCW tune kit and get the appearance stuff the MCS lacks.

I love the fact that w/ the JCW tune kit my car performs so well, but also lament that the real JCW power plant doesn't separate the two enough to warrant the extra money spent. Yes, I do understand you get all the suspension parts and the like, but if those things are not something one is going use to the extreme, it makes little sense for me to pay for them.

As an example I was debating going w/ the BMW M2 over the M240i. Dealer had the allocation and was not charging a premium for the car. Loved the look of the M2, flared rear fenders, Dual Clutch,more aggressive tires and it's a true "M" car.

But when comparing real world performance, the M240i was so close (and in some respects better) than the M2, I saved myself $7K. The M2 is a better track car w/ a racing suspension and brakes (similar to the JCW comparing it to the MCS w/ a tune kit), but the M2 has a very stiff ride in exchange for it track-ability. Living with a rough riding car w/ little or no performance gain and pay more for it made no sense to me.

In 2018 the M2 is getting a bigger motor (as the Club Sport) that will significantly separate it from the M240i in straight line acceleration to make buying one more plausible. I hope to see something similar w/ the JCW in the next year or so (maybe a 245HP 265 Lb ft. lb torque re-map). As is, for me, I'm finding it hard to justify the purchase.

 

Good old Rhyphile. His breakdown and threads were very informational. Maybe one day he will get back in a Mini.

 

I have a 2015 MCS with the JCW tune and an NM Power Module. Holy cow my car is super torquie. Power, power and more power. The stock JCW with a Module is still not as quick as my MCS.

 

Do you have factual information?