It looks like you can buy a small Mercedes AMG with a 2.0L turbo motor rated at 376 hp and 350 lb. ft. Why is it that even the JCW Mini is so "underpowered"?

 

Answer: how much does that AMG cost?

 

Those engines are on like 25 or 26psi stock. Plus amg is known for some pretty bonkers engines. Consumers wouldn't expect anything less.

 

You want a 376 HP MINI Cooper S?

I feel like this is an Archer comment waiting to happen... You want to end up wrapped around a tree? Because this is how you end up wrapped around a tree.

 

Sooooo, is this question rhetorical or are you just not sure of the technical reasons? If you're being serious, then there are very concise technical reasons for the differences:

A. Price, and thus...
B. 26.1 PSI of boost versus 16 for the JCW, and...
C. Real World Boost threshold of about 3000 RPM versus about 1500 RPM for the JCW


So, if you're not sure how it works in general with a turbo engine, you can have either a low boost threshold OR high peak HP. Choose one. BMW chooses low boost threshold to achieve excellent low RPM response and a low-lag experience. The AMG engine goes the opposite route and will feel like a dog off-boost in order to make peak high RPM power.

 

Among all the new 2.0L turbos I can think of, none have as little hp as the Mini 2.0 turbo, at least in MCS form. Mini's 2.0 performs very well in my opinion and is satisfactory in all respects - but its rated hp is low.

 

You mean other than the Audi A3 2.0T, BMW 320i, and VW GTI. All of which have less rated power than the JCW.

What exactly is the problem here? It's not the lowest power, it's not the highest power. Here the F56's are the highest powered MINI's to date and all people can do is complain they're not powerful enough. WTF?!

You do realize that peak power is not at all the entire story, right? I dare you to find another 2.0L TGDI equipped new car that weighs less than the MINI. You won't be able to do it, period. It's a big de-tuned BMW engine in a light tiny hatchback.

 

Of those three examples only the 320i has less power than the MCS:

A3 220/258
320i 180/200
GTI 210/258

Why Mini would spec the MCS with so little power remains a question. Even front wheel drive cannot explain it. Their 2.0L turbo ought to do better.

 

The justa, mcs and jcw engine output is based off from the driving experience of each model ,competitiveness in market segment and of the end users wants and needs.

The bmw 2 liter should be good for over 300hp with some tuning and component upgrades.

 

Like others said, the engine comes conservatively tuned from the factory, while other makes are squeezing most of the power out from the factory.

 

It's powerful enough for me to get in trouble with (although most of the time my S is in Green mode).

 

At 63yo, I have owned a lot of cars. Name almost any brand and I have owned at least one example. Like the BMW 2002tii, the current F56S is not the fastest car, but it's balance between it's suspension and it's power are near perfect.
I had a '63 Corvette with "fuelly heads" and a 750 Holley carb. The car's suspension and brakes were so overwhelmed by the power. It was very difficult to drive this car.
MINI has really benefitted from BMW's new series of engines. The 2 liter has just the right amount of torque to work with the FWD. And you have an engine that doesn't have to be stressed all the time. All the crap from the older engines will probably disappear.

 

63? You're too old to be driving a MINI.

Conrad, also 63

 

Me three, '52 was a great year apparently!!!

 

You three are just children.

One of the advantages of aging is it no longer takes as much to get the juices flowing and the hp and performance of just a Justa is more than enough to make me smile.

 

Hear hear! I do agree.

I run the "Justa" B38 F56 - and I find sufficient power for the street, and also a surprisingly effective autocross car. The power band is VERY different, the gears are tall, and it took me a while to catch on. Mind you I started with a Works R53 in '04 and a "Justa" R56 in 2013 and raced both of those too - regionally and nationally.

It is no joke that that little triple hits the same torque numbers as my R53 showed at 3-4k, but gets there at less than 2k. That's usable power, and it does not overwhelm the e-diff.

And you gentlemen are as old as dirt! (I am only 60).

Very kind regards,

Charlie

 

You've made it clear you refuse to understand and continue to troll. It's the most powerful factory Cooper S yet. Your comment has no logical context and is hysterical.

 

Ahh that's why this thread felt so similar. Sailorlte has a history of trolling irrational thread starting on this topic:

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...tle-power.html

 

Hell, you don't even qualify for Social Security Payments.

 

Note to you old guys: You're not old! I, on the other hand, am old (73) - but not so old that I don't enjoy driving my 6MT MCS. And not so old that I would choose 200hp over 300hp.

I don't commute and don't drive the family around in my MCS - in fact I don't ever have to drive it - I just enjoy it and look for excuses to drive it. Others I know have to be a little bit more practical in their driving choices. We're all well served I think, but nevertheless - how about some real power?

(I notice that one of you describes me as a troll - that's new to me and a little disagreeable - and I'd say it mischaracterizes my enthusiasm).

 

This AMG model also has AWD.

The JCW/MCS is still FWD

That much power going through the front wheels would not remain fun for anyone for very long.

 

LOL. I just had breakfast with one of my very favorite gentleman (who is 84) and we decided we start a mass movement. We shall call it Wise Opinionated Old Farts (WOOF) and think it could be an inspirational means of enriching numerous dialogs.

But perhaps we got the name wrong? Should it be Thoughtful Reflections On Long Life?

 

Woof !

 

This topic is so silly imo. These cars are light, super tossable, power to weight is great. Not sure how much the amg weighs but in the non drag race real world passing the Mini is outstanding.
Get JCW and the 285 hp tune.

 

I thought this discussion sounded familiar...

I will bring up the same point I think I did on the last thread and that is fuel economy.

Setting the handling argument aside (which is a very good point as well), typically more HP = less mpg. Keep in mind the Cooper and Cooper S are targeted as cars people drive everyday and if someone is shopping for a compact hatch with all the downsides that go with that (less space for passengers/cargo), they typically aren't willing to give up mileage too.

If someone wants a hatch with more speed: JCW - which STILL has a good balance between fuel economy, handling and power.

MINI isn't out to play the d*** measuring contest that other manufacturers play regarding HP. More HP is NOT better.