F55/F56 :: Hatch Talk (2014+) MINI Cooper and Cooper S (F55/F56) hatchback discussions.
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What do you dislike about your F56?

  #76  
Old 02-27-2015, 09:36 AM
russmini
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The auto start/stop can be turned off permanently if not in green mode.
 
  #77  
Old 02-27-2015, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by GregoryK View Post
Siriuszero- I guess I did not explain it properly. Any pops etc that happen will happen in any mode because there is no difference in the way the engine burns fuel between them al. It is shocking how much noise is lost when you remove the ASD.


There is no ASD fuse. If you pull the fuse the stereo goes down too....but give it a try so you can hear the difference. Here is a post on the subject. Because of Canbus you have to be careful.


Interesting how this ASD thing is such an emotional issue for some people. Many people get very upset when I mention the amount of sound the ASD generates. People argue that they have worked with engines all their lives and they are hearing the real engine not a fake sound! They do this because the cars are quiet and you can't hear much because of the sound proofing.
But there is a difference in SPORT mode. The pops and burbles effect has been manufactured since the 2nd gen LCI MINIs. When the R56 first came out the pops from the R53 (which were not manufactured - they were incidental) were engineered out to cut down on noise. Of course, people liked the pops/burbles so MINI added them back artificially when they did the LCI in 2011. The fuel being introed into the exhaust manifold is specifically engineered to give Cooper S customers the pop and burble effect in SPORT.

That's why I'm confused as to why you no longer hear them outside the car. It should be completely separate from the ASD. Yes, it's artificial in that the noise is engineered, but it is still a physical thing that happens and is not tied to a generated soundtrack like ASD. It may have been amplified by ASD in the cabin, but you should still be able to hear it the same outside the car.

Originally Posted by TheBigNewt View Post
So let me get this straight, because I have a good friend with a new F56 she just got. You can set the auto stop/start to be off more or less permanently (she hates it as do almost everyone on this forum) in the new F56s but not the early ones. And the "fake engine sound through the speakers" is permanent. I could't really notice it driving her car around, it was very quiet. I couldn't hardly hear the exhaust at all, especially compared to mine. That seems like a pretty weird feature if you ask me.
the ASD is a double edged sword... If you didn't know it was there, you probably would never know it was fake. Once you know it's artificial though, you can't help but hear only that. Some people hate that MINI (and indeed, BMW and many other auto makers) have to introduce artificial engine noise. Today's engines are getting quieter and personally, I would rather have artificial engine noise over no noise at all as the engine noise is part of the experience of driving a sporty car. I understand where folks like GregoryK are coming from, though and I wish there was a way to easily switch it off without resorting to coding or 3rd party harnesses, but then if it was easy, everyone would know it was there!
 
  #78  
Old 02-27-2015, 01:24 PM
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I think the reason you don't hear the burbles outside the car is because they maybe only happen when the car is running and you let off the gas. If you're idling or just "blipping the throttle" standing still it's not like the R53 (those were the blippers lol). My car definitely has pop/burble in Sport mode whereas my 2007 had none.
 
  #79  
Old 02-27-2015, 01:56 PM
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So is it possible to add ASD? lol.
 
  #80  
Old 02-27-2015, 02:08 PM
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SiriusZero. So what you are saying is that on the F56 in sport mode the engine pumps gas to the exhaust to create a sound effect....and that they did this on the R56 as well?
My R56 had a noise maker that I also disabled but I frankly find it hard to believe that any modern car manufacturer would do this. I not saying it is untrue but I think of the emissions issues this would create.....right?
Also it is well documented that no engine change happens between any of the modes. The guys from some of the piggy-back tuning systems have made statements to back this up.....for the F56 anyway.
 
  #81  
Old 02-27-2015, 02:18 PM
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SiriusZero's explanation in post #77 was exactly correct.
 
  #82  
Old 02-27-2015, 02:28 PM
JohnRausch
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VicSkimmr,

It's your lucky day!

http://www.soundracer.se/?p=98
 
  #83  
Old 02-27-2015, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by GregoryK View Post
SiriusZero. So what you are saying is that on the F56 in sport mode the engine pumps gas to the exhaust to create a sound effect....and that they did this on the R56 as well?
My R56 had a noise maker that I also disabled but I frankly find it hard to believe that any modern car manufacturer would do this. I not saying it is untrue but I think of the emissions issues this would create.....right?
Also it is well documented that no engine change happens between any of the modes. The guys from some of the piggy-back tuning systems have made statements to back this up.....for the F56 anyway.
For the R56 anyway, this is 100% true, from the mouth of a master tech and trainer at MINI. I thought I've heard this is also how the F56 worked as well - still waiting to hear back from my buddy at MINI. I'm fairly sure the F56 works the same way, but I don't KNOW.

When MINI brought out the R56 in 2007, the pop and burble was engineered away to cut down on noise, but when they did, people complained and they brought it back for the LCI refresh in 2011. It's a VERY small amount of fuel used to make this happen. Not enough to impact fuel economy or emissions.
 
  #84  
Old 02-27-2015, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by siriuszero View Post
For the R56 anyway, this is 100% true, from the mouth of a master tech and trainer at MINI. I thought I've heard this is also how the F56 worked as well - still waiting to hear back from my buddy at MINI. I'm fairly sure the F56 works the same way, but I don't KNOW.

When MINI brought out the R56 in 2007, the pop and burble was engineered away to cut down on noise, but when they did, people complained and they brought it back for the LCI refresh in 2011. It's a VERY small amount of fuel used to make this happen. Not enough to impact fuel economy or emissions.
Sirius.
My r56 was 2010 and that did not happen on that car as you stated.
I find it hard to believe because of the political fallout if it got out that BMW were doing this in an age where fuel is so (or was) so expensive. I'm only talking F56 here. I believe your guru friend.....
I used to race tune bikes. Rapid throttle shut down can cause this maybe the throttle on the F56 ad R56 is electric the deceleration can be dialed in to do this. Back pressure to has a part to play. Running the car rich to cause this effect would be pretty tough to do and expensive too.
 
  #85  
Old 02-27-2015, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by GregoryK View Post
Sirius. My r56 was 2010 and that did not happen on that car as you stated. I find it hard to believe because of the political fallout if it got out that BMW were doing this in an age where fuel is so (or was) so expensive. I'm only talking F56 here. I believe your guru friend..... I used to race tune bikes. Rapid throttle shut down can cause this maybe the throttle on the F56 ad R56 is electric the deceleration can be dialed in to do this. Back pressure to has a part to play. Running the car rich to cause this effect would be pretty tough to do and expensive too.
The comments above were correct. My 2010 had this engineered out. It made it back in with the new engine ( N18 ) that was added during the mid-cycle refresh. It only happened when you hit the sport button. Apparently it was a very very small amount of fuel that was used for the effect. Detonation in this case was not caused by a rich air/fuel mix but a bypass allowing droplets of fuel to fall in the hot exhaust and create the effect.
 
  #86  
Old 02-27-2015, 06:08 PM
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The R56 pop and burble is caused by fuel during overrun i.e. on throttle lift off in the ~2500 rpm range. Fuel is injected into the engine while the exhaust valves are open. Because the car is direct injected this can be precisely controlled. The amount of fuel we are talking about is drops.
 

Last edited by cerenkov; 02-27-2015 at 06:14 PM.
  #87  
Old 02-27-2015, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by GregoryK View Post
Sirius.
My r56 was 2010 and that did not happen on that car as you stated.
I find it hard to believe because of the political fallout if it got out that BMW were doing this in an age where fuel is so (or was) so expensive. I'm only talking F56 here. I believe your guru friend.....
I used to race tune bikes. Rapid throttle shut down can cause this maybe the throttle on the F56 ad R56 is electric the deceleration can be dialed in to do this. Back pressure to has a part to play. Running the car rich to cause this effect would be pretty tough to do and expensive too.
Yours wouldn't have had this - they added it during the LCI refresh in N18 equipped 2011+ models. It gets turns on in Sport mode only.
 
  #88  
Old 02-28-2015, 04:32 AM
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Yep found this. Wonder how they did it.....and kept fuel economy high?


http://workshop-manuals.com/mini/coo..._deceleration/


Thanks for the Info.
 
  #89  
Old 02-28-2015, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by cerenkov View Post
The R56 pop and burble is caused by fuel during overrun i.e. on throttle lift off in the ~2500 rpm range. Fuel is injected into the engine while the exhaust valves are open. Because the car is direct injected this can be precisely controlled. The amount of fuel we are talking about is drops.
Maybe it is just "drops" but it may explain why so many Mini owners have carbon build up problems with their engines and it become a money pit to fix with all the other issues that come with it.

The pop and burble is a useless feature that I would be more than happy to delete if I could.
 
  #90  
Old 02-28-2015, 05:49 PM
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Please???????????

Originally Posted by dube53 View Post
Maybe it is just "drops" but it may explain why so many Mini owners have carbon build up problems with their engines and it become a money pit to fix with all the other issues that come with it.

The pop and burble is a useless feature that I would be more than happy to delete if I could.
The pops and burbles were not programed in the '07 - '10 R56S, which happen to be the problem cars.
 
  #91  
Old 02-28-2015, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by dube53 View Post
Maybe it is just "drops" but it may explain why so many Mini owners have carbon build up problems with their engines and it become a money pit to fix with all the other issues that come with it. The pop and burble is a useless feature that I would be more than happy to delete if I could.
I don't believe you understand how the carbon build happens so I will explain...the carbon builds up due to the crankcase oil vapors venting back into the intake. This is called the PCV system and is present in some form on all modern cars for emission purposes. The oil then plates out on the hot intake valves and eventually carbonizes. Now in typical port injected (gasoline injected into the intake manifold) cars this would not be an issue because the gasoline "washes" the valves clean but since the MINI (S models from 2007 and all 3rd gen) are direct injected, i.e. extremely high pressure gasoline is injected directly into the cylinder, there is no "washing" of the valves. The N18 engines have a better redesigned PCV system than the N14 but it can still be an issue. Hopefully the 3rd gens won't be a problem but it has been something that has plagued BMW for a while.

Now the usefulness of the feature is mostly subjective. I could do without it but I like the tighten steering that sport mode gives so I live with it.
 
  #92  
Old 03-06-2015, 11:50 AM
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I for one love the gurgle... I recently returned to Sport mode use after a long absence and was reminded of it.
 
  #93  
Old 03-07-2015, 02:31 AM
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I run my car in sport mode 95% of the time around town, with the JCW exhaust in open mode.

Those pops turn to bangs. Sounds like my exhaust is setting off small fireworks back there.

I find myself downshifting just to hear it...This feature is awesome, and no way would I ever want it to change.
 
  #94  
Old 03-22-2015, 01:19 PM
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To return back to the original thread's question for a moment:
  • Love the 16" Victory Spoke black rims that came with my Sport package (bought car in June '14), but absolutely HATE the run-flat tires they put on the rims. Loud, handle poorly, and were less-than-useless in even the smallest amount of snow (worst winter performance I've seen in my 30+ years of owning cars).
  • Love the increased visibility from my LED headlights, but HATE having to ride with my hand on the lever, ready to flash my high-beams back at oncoming cars that flash at me, thinking my high-beams are on. Happens every single time I drive at night, very often multiple times in a trip.
  • It's an old peeve from when I was more active on the forums, but I'm still disappointed that the audio system did not include a disc player, and only had 4 speakers. Still kicking myself for not going with a custom order, just to get the Harmon Kardon upgrade (not easy to find aftermarket audio upgrades for the F56).
There are a few others (getting "charge battery" message when temp is in the 'teens, can't open rear windows for my dog, gas milage dropped a *ton* during the winter months, etc), but most I've been able to tolerate.
 
  #95  
Old 04-23-2015, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnRausch View Post
2015 S
.
.
6. Glove box is too flat and items fall out. Items on door left and right block closing.
.
.
I'm still on my honeymoon phase with my MCS since I only got it 5 days ago but this is definitely a fail that's begging for a mod. The glove box designer and tester should be fired.
 
  #96  
Old 04-23-2015, 12:18 PM
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I've had my glove box out of the car 3 times now. I must say there is no room for anything bigger. Think we can blame the rest of the car...maybe they should have made the nose bigger thereby leaving more room for the glove box! :-)
 
  #97  
Old 04-23-2015, 12:41 PM
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1. Glove box => Super small !
2. Seat belts on the passenger side => After my wife gets down at her office, the belt buckle keeps hitting the side frame and the rattling noise is annoying. I have the same complaint on my BMW 328i as well ...

Inherited from BMW ....
 
  #98  
Old 04-23-2015, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by GregoryK View Post
I've had my glove box out of the car 3 times now. I must say there is no room for anything bigger. Think we can blame the rest of the car...maybe they should have made the nose bigger thereby leaving more room for the glove box! :-)
The glove box size is not the issue for me. I don't know how to remedy the problem without altering the design of the dash or affecting passenger leg room. Couldn't they have tilted the angle of the box slightly downward towards the front by a tiny bit so stuff don't fall out as soon as you open the door?
 
  #99  
Old 04-23-2015, 01:49 PM
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I haven't even taken delivery yet, and my biggest pet peeve from the beginning has been the reduction in size of the fuel tank. The unofficial 'official' response given to me was, for weight reduction. What's gas weigh, 8 pounds a gallon? I'd rather have that 3-4 gallons back and have a longer range between fill-ups.

It would make sense to reduce the fuel tank size, if the intent was to make room for a urea tank for a diesel variant. But I have a feeling we won't see a diesel before the next refresh.
 
  #100  
Old 04-24-2015, 11:49 AM
JohnRausch
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Originally Posted by shaggyone View Post
I'm still on my honeymoon phase with my MCS since I only got it 5 days ago but this is definitely a fail that's begging for a mod. The glove box designer and tester should be fired.
Here's my solution to everything rolling out of the glove box. It's a good fit and nothing moves around or rolls out.



And here's the link to the mat on Amazon:

Amazon.com: Winco 18-Inch x 12-Inch Service Mats, Black: Kitchen & Dining Amazon.com: Winco 18-Inch x 12-Inch Service Mats, Black: Kitchen & Dining

Here's a link to my pattern. Too big for my scanner. Scale it with photoshop or similar so bottom (front) edge is 12.5 inches. Cut out with razor knife and round corners with scissors.

"https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3404756/PATTERN.jpg"
 

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