The new North American Mini engines are designed to stop and then re-start when stopped in traffic.
This is intended to increase mileage and decrease pollutants??

Any info, comments, experience with the stop/start sequence that is coming on the new mini engine?
All opinions welcome

 

Both transmission systems are newly developed. The auto features an engine start/stop function for the first time, preventing unnecessary fuel consumption. When used in conjunction with the MINI Navigation System, it’s able to take account of the selected route profile and control gear shifts. Based on navigation data, the appropriate drive position is selected to match the road ahead, preventing unnecessary upshifts.
Now on the options list is a third transmission, a six-speed sports automatic transmission which enables even shorter shift times, features rev matching on downward shifts and can be operated in manual mode using shift paddles behind the steering wheel.

 

I tried it on 2014 c300 it was nice,the start stop was instantly without any delay. I don't know if they integrate this system in the new mini but in Merc you can turn it off anytime.

 

Yes to both.

Start/stop has been on MINI for years already in Europe, but the system isn't being brought over to the US until now. Start/stop improves mileage and pollution numbers under European testing standards but the US (EPA) was using an older testing method that didn't measure the effect of start/stop. Because the start/stop system added to expense and didn't improve EPA numbers, MINI did not bring it to the US previously.

Here's a thread with information about how it functions: https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...nctioning.html

The start/stop system on the R56 is only for manual transmissions. On the F56 it will also include auto transmissions. Start/stop was already on BMW before MINI, and it has already been on BMW cars in the US for the past year or two.

The point I want to make is that it is nothing new, even for MINI. It is just new for US spec MINI.

 

it may be good for the environment, but i wonder if you save more in reduced fuel cost than the price of a replacement starter plus installation cost? what is the impact on battery life?

 

Here in Britain I have read a hundred threads on the subject of how the stop/start will cause the engine to burst into flames/a plague to break out/the starter motor to grenade itself.

Mini fit an uprated starter motor to stop/start cars, which isn't hard as an automotive starter motor is about the lowest specification of electric motor known to man, since it is normally a very light duty. Motors can be specified which will start industrial machinery once a minute for the next thirty years, so trebling the number of starts on a starter motor is not rocket science.

The other dire prediction is that the engine lubrication can't withstand being stopped and restarted often. This comes from those who have learned that most wear occurs on starting an engine - but they forget that used to mean starting a cold engine whose oil had mostly drained away from its bearings. Starting a warm engine (stop/start doesn't operate until the engine is warm) that was fully lubricated seconds ago is not the same thing.

But those who don't easily adapt to new things will hate it - and 'old farts' exist in all age bands, as the discussion on this forum will prove once stop/start is available in the US.

Actually the thing that I find difficult to adapt to having had two stop/start (manual) Minis is the occasional stall when I haven't given the engine the half second or so it needs to get fully running. It's easy to then try to use the starter button to restart the engine, when in fact all that is required is to dip the clutch and the ECU will restart the engine itself.

And trying to reverse-engineer the stop/start software becomes a pleasing game. There are a million different reasons why it won't operate (engine too cold, engine too hot, cabin not yet warm, battery not fully charged, outside temperature too low, today is a Tuesday....) and so anticipating the engine stopping becomes an advanced automotive test.

 

Interesting thread. I didn't know this was coming to the U.S.

 

Note: On the BMW's in the USA, the auto stop/start feature can be disabled by the driver if you don't like it. I would assume the MINI is set up the same way ?

 

Yes, on 2nd Gen cars, stop/start has a button next to the 'sport' button to disable it. I presume the 3rd Gen will have it too.

However it is enabled whenever the car is turned on, so it has to be switched off each time you drive, if you don't want it - so the opposite way round to the 'sport' button.

I think both European and American economy testing procedure says the car is tested in its default mode, so these things must default to the setting in which the manufacturer wants the economy tested.

 

I installed the Ian Cull auto circuit for windows, frt fogs and DSC always off mode. I bet he could figure out a way to wire another circuit board making the auto/off feature in always off mode too....

 

I certainly hope it can be turned off. This would be annoying in the extreme.

 

It can but you will get used to it. I have it on my 2014 Porsche Cayman and its a manual.
Either way, get used to it. It is mandated by 2015 I believe.

 

Daily start up routine: turn start- stop off, sport button on. Go.

 

SO...
In the 2014 Hardtop we need to ascertain if there is a button that allows on/off defeat.

 

Yes there is a defeat button.

 

The features does decrease fuel consumption for the length of time that the engine is not running (duahhh), but EPA has not allowed BMW (or MINI) to count it towards reduced average MPG calculations.

In practice, this feature has been a huge PITA among BMW owners who have been stuck with it on all new models over the past few years. It works OK in rural areas and on highway commutes (where it is rarely used), but is an absolute nightmare in start-and-go city traffic. I had it on my loaner bimmer while mine was in for service, and waiting extra ~2 seconds for the engine to start when you don't expect it to have stalled is between unnerving and unsafe if you are trying to keep up with NYC traffic.

For BMW city-dwellers, the standard starting routine is "push to start", "push to disable auto-stall". Luckily both buttons are next to each other in bimmers. We'll have to see where they are in F56 (start button is a toggle, so disable auto-stall has to be somewhere else).

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The Start/Stop Disable is right next to the starter toggle in the new F56.

I found the start/stop pretty seemless when I drove the car. I felt it worked better than most of the BMW's that have it, which I always found slightly annoying. Not so in the F56...the second you begin to lift your foot from the brake the motor is already up and running again.

Also, it can sense if you're in traffic and it will not activate.

 

I wonder how it would affect AC in a place like Phoenix in the summer. Presumably the AC compressor would turn off while it idles and air temperature would rise. Long traffic stops might get a little toasty if it's 120 degrees.

 

No, the A/C does not turn off. At least it never did in my friend's 535.

 

At 120 degrees, it will not turn off the engine.

This is what the BMW Owner's manual says:

 

I have a 2013 BMW X1 28i and it has the start/stop feature. On many forums, I've seen it referred to as "***" (auto start/stop).

Before my X1, I had a 2012 BMW 328i that also had "***", and prior to that, I had a 2008 MINI Cooper Hardtop.

I really wanted to like ***, but, alas, it's just not as good as it should be.

Prior to my MINI, I had a 2005 Prius. Maybe I was spoiled by the hybrid system in that car.

In both BMWs, the *** is great - in theory. I'm all about reducing emissions and saving the planet.

Unfortunately, in Florida, *** is basically unusable most of the year, because the AC does, in fact, turn off with the engine. Actually, there's a small "reservoir" built in to the engine that freezes when the AC is running. Think of it as one of those freezer bag blue cooler things. When the engine shuts off, that reservoir of cold is supposed to keep cooling the air - but it's effective for only a brief period of time.

What's worse - *** is extremely jarring. It was really bad in my 2012 328. It's not quite as bad in the X1, which surprised me because they both have exactly the same engine. Regardless, I always have to explain to new passengers what's going on with the engine, and there's a definite lurching when the engine starts back up (especially if it starts while you're still sitting at a stop light, which can happen if it's too hot outside).

So - I usually shut it off right away, unless it's cool enough outside to have the windows down.

Until BMW/MINI incorporate a system that keeps ALL of the creature comforts running inside the vehicle when the engine stops (like a Prius), I don't think *** will win many fans. At least not in the southern states.

 

I've used the auto start/stop on MINIs in Europe. It waits until the car is warmed up, then stops the engine when the car is traveling less than a certain speed (4mph I think it was), and the car is in neutral (this was with a manual). The engine starts automatically as soon as the clutch is pushed in and the car is ready to drive by the time you've got it in gear.

The system works well most of the time. There's a button to turn it off along with the sport mode and DSC button. You could confuse it by switching the button while it was stopped.

I did turn it off sometimes when I felt it was annoying, this was in the really bad sort of London traffic where you're constantly inching along at a few MPH. In the sort of traffic I get out here, where you go along for half a mile, then stop for 2 mins at a traffic light, it would be ideal.

The system works particularly well in Britain, as the way you're taught is to put the car in neutral and foot off the clutch whenever you come to a stop. In the US, where people tend to wait with the foot on the clutch (or have autos) this might not work so well.

 

Interesting comments. I'll have to test the feature and then decide whether or not I will use it, or disable it every time I start the car.

 

One side benefit of the stop/start is that it only works when the battery is in really good condition, so to some extent it is a battery condition monitor - it the engine stops, the battery is great!

On my first Mini with it, each year it would take longer for the car to begin start/stopping after the winter temperatures rose above 3 degC. At first it would stop/start only after journeys which had fully charged the battery and by the last year I had the car (on its original battery) it had to be quite warm before the ECU thought the battery was healthy enough. At no time was there any other indication that the battery was ageing, but I confirmed it was the battery by charging it up overnight, after which the stop/start would work like when it was new.

4mph is indeed the limit before the stop/start restarts the car - I regularly roll down a hill in dense traffic and if I let off the brakes to let the car roll in neutral, the engine restarts at 4mph, which is just as well as without the engine running, the steering isn't powered.

And working out what the ECU is thinking (or what the programmer thought was relevant) is amusing - if the driver hasn't got their seat belt fastened, the stop/start won't stop the engine. Why?

 

My father has a 2013 BMW 328i and it has the auto start/stop feature. I've driven his car and have had similar cars, also with this feature, as loaners while my MINI was in for service. I have to say that I really like it.

It takes about 5 minutes to get used to, which is no big deal. At first, it's a little disconcerting because it feels like the car has stalled. After you get used to the sensation, you don't even notice it doing its thing. With an auto trans, if you take your foot off the brake or turn the steering wheel when the car has shut off, it will restart. I live in South Florida, where it is very hot in the summer (and spring, and fall), and there is no issue with the A/C. Everything else works just as it did when the car was moving. The only thing that stops is the engine. The best way that I can describe it is similar to a gas powered golf cart. They shut off when you stop and restart when you press on the gas pedal as well.