His question was which one was better , not how to best spend his money. He asked if both have been tested on the same car and as I responded they have . Lets keep this thread on topic for the OP's sake.

 

Sweet! An Offensive Patrol. Count me in!!!!!

 

Back to topic.

Yes I realize I have the DFIC and may be biased as I have not actually tried the Alta but why would you?
The reason I ask is check out the number of cooling vents (not sure what else to call them as I do not know the technical name). The alta has 4 while the DFIC has 5. From a pure cooling standpoint the DFIC has more cooling surface period!

I do find it amusing that ALTA would have a TMIC for so long and after m7 made their first one ALTA decided they shoul have one too..... hmmmm, where is the emoticon for finger in the corner of mouth in strange contemplation? (Dr. Evil style of course).

 

CustomAV has a point. But to go with a spirit of what has been said before, if Alta did indeed have a look at the M7 part, why did they decide to go with 4 slots instead of 5? I LOVE conspiracy theories.

That aside, I still think it would be beneficial for all concerned if there was a way to present quantitative numbers on these items for comparison's sake. Too bad that it doesn't seem like either manufacturer is interested...

 

Okay - for the OP's sake - and directed at him:

Neither manufacturer has bothered to release any efficiency numbers for either unit. Which one is better? Well, only one forum member here has bothered to even attempt a comparison. A quote that summarizes that thread quite well:

So, is everyone in shock? 410 posts and finally a TE of 71% and things go quiet? Seems to me, as owner of DFIC#023, it's time to start talking about getting more cool/cold air into the IC and out (thanks, MSFITOY!)
More numbers are needed, of course, but the first numbers show high pressure drop and low relative TE, compared to the stock IC (something like >1psi drop, and only +7%age points gain in TE).
Nobody who has a DFIC has reported anything but amazing PoPo (to quote Hans Stuck) dyno results, so is this all placebo effect? I'd hate to think so--otherwise my DFIC is a grand's worth of bling, and I don't even have the polished one!
I'll confess I was expecting TEs of 90+%! The pressure drop doesnt bother me if I know the air charge is substantially cooler than with other ICs, but the Doctor's first numbers don't show this.
cheers,
__________________

Again, to the OP sorry for going off topic, but I would read the thread and possibly PM the person who performed the test and the author of the above quote. Robino, if my post offends you in anyway, I apologize - your question has no simple answer........

The DFIC performed better in the test mentioned in the thread that I pulled the quote from . But again, you are planning on spending alot of money on something that barely performed better than the stock intercooler.

Maybe you could e-mail both manufacturers and ask for the performance testing they performed during R&D on their products.

 

well i noticed that the new lotus has added a DFIC style intercooler. i trust they know a thing or two about what they're doing. i don't know if one is any better than the other, but i'm watching and listening, trying to learn.

 

If you look around, you will see that there are WAY MORE TMIC designed cars than DFIC thinge..
$1000 for that small ic..?? Not worth it i say.... invest the money on getting a used TMIC and something else.

 

Same here. I believe the issue is placement. Here is the pic of the Lotus:



Obviously very different than what is being marketed for Mini. Much larger cross section and seems to be sitting a little more in front of the engine, thus catching less heat (Just my observation). The Mini direct flow seems to be on top of the engine thus drawing more heat and also much more restricted flow of air due to the shape of the hood scoops design limitations. (Once again, just my observation). Thus the never ending questions of how effective the M7/Alta products really are.

 

 

You got hotpwned

 

typo on my part. I meant to say a Lotus Engine (Exige S). Better?

 

Goaljnky,

Not that I want to step in front of your flame thrower...you make a good point but there has been discussion of patent infringement between M7 and Alta. M7's cooler can't be copied without Alta leaving itself open for litigation. I think they went for 4 slots to get around a lawsuit. Keep in perspective what going on here, you have a product that sells well and has a ‘cult” following with M7’s DFIC. Alta needs to develop a competing product to increase market share. It not about HP or torque it’s about profit and getting a bigger piece of the aftermarket pie.

 

Whoa, did not know about the patent stuff. I will have to make sure and not get my flame thrower in the way of the pissing contest. Excellent point on the profit and market share. Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

here's some food for thought.

Altas core is extruded; M7s oven-brazed
Alta has 3 deeper internal cores; M7 5 less deep cores
Alta has lower pressure drop; M7s higher pressure drop
Alta has lower thermal efficiency; M7s has a higher thermal efficiency

I'm not sure of the latest package details from each, I think Alta gives you the IC and a diverter. Don't know if it includes the nozzle like the TMIC did. Don't know about boots.

I think M7 gives the IC, a scoop, the diverter, the boots and I think I read a sprayer with the base kit. There are lots of options, like coatings and the thermal barrier blanket.

When you budget you purchase, make sure that you add in all the options your considering, and also keep in mind that you will probably have to add a scoop to the Alta to get full benefit.

Now, while they do the same thing and they share the same basic shape, the do their jobs very differently.

Matt

ps, I've tested the DFIC and the prototype for the Alta (not the release one). Unfortunantly, the car was in very different states so the data doesn't compare directly.... Both gave some benefit on my car, better with better gas for the Alta, don't know about the DFIC as I didn't test it with anything but 91.....

In general, ICs are a lot of $. I wouldn't reccomend that you get it as your first mod.

The flow through design is non-ideal (the longer the path the cooling air goes, the more it heats on the way reducing cooling at the back as opposed to the front), but the implementation on our cars bets that increased cooling airflow wins over less-than-ideal geometry.

 

well, at the cost of $630 i went ahead and got the Alta direct flow
i will let you all know if i feel a difference and i suppose, once i get the MTH tune i'll also dyno it to see how it works with the rest of my modifications.

 

for the sake of knowing what it exactly has improved in HP/TQ i'd get a dyno before the install and the software, then dyno with the ic, then again after software... just food for thought.

and the Alta comes with the sprayer. dont forget to grind down the oem threaded mounts or you'll have little dimples in your bonnet.
ps-do you have the alta scoop? stock one requires some dremeling...

 

How much air, at say 30 mph, will the 2 ICs flow through the exterior? As Dr O points out cooling front to back on the 2 ICs is not ideal.

TE could be an important factor but maybe not. Loss of boost for TE could cancel any gain. Or not. There is no easy formula for air density v boost. What we do know is 180f+ does not make a good intake charge.

There is a delicate balance of core flow & exterior flow needed to make a good IC.

The OE unit has a lot going for it. First, It came with the car, no special ad ons or mods necessary. Not much mass so it can recover quickly from heat soak. There are some inexpensive, even DYI, mods for the OE unit that show good result. There is still plenty of merit in the TMIC, given the new GP IC & what people think of its performance. Untill there is absolute proof that the standard top mount IC is not as efficent, in all driving conditions, as a direct flow IC type, the jury is out.

 

Man, that is one sweet setup.

 

I'm still very happy with the DFIC and Ram Intake...

 

well, i don't OWN a dyno, so pulling three separate dyno runs for the sake of knowing how much if any power is gained won't be something i will find out.
if anything, the vendors who sell this stuff should do that with graphs showing gains, if any.

I didn't know there WAS an Alta scoop...can you direct me to a link showing one? I do know there's modification needed to the stock one.

 

"I didn't know there WAS an Alta scoop...can you direct me to a link showing one? I do know there's modification needed to the stock one."

There is no Alta scoop, just a diverter for the OE IC & their top mount. If they made 1, it was some time ago & no longer make it.

 

Who copied who???

Alta - 12/09/2005
M7 - 3/25/2006

 

During the time Alta first introduced their prototype at NAM, JS and I were in posession of the first DFIC prototype which was being used for the DFIC Ram Intake development. Prior to that, M7 had already applied for a patent for the DFIC and was well along in R/D...consequently, they were the first into production to which, I received one of the first three production units while at the Dragon last year...

 

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

Everything took me 2 hrs roughly, including the cutting/finishing of the scoop, cutting/grinding of the inner nipples for the IC to sit low enough, hooking up the sprayer and finally fumbling with the heavy duty silicone Alta IC couplers that i ultimately had no luck with (which is why you see the stock IC rubber couplings being used)

Pretty straight forward installation, clean looking, nothing touching and believe it or not, haven't had the chance to drive/test the butt dyno to see what, if any difference is felt...(my wife took the car to work in a hurry)

This is what came out...



This is what went in...



Here you see the water sprayer hose being routed and tie wrapped towards the firewall...





Here's the "T" fitting which the sprayer is hooked up to...



Once the scoop diverter was removed, the scoop itself was trimmed up to the metal edge of the hood to open up the scoop intake and aid in feeding the new direct flow IC more air