Are you guys talking approach (IAT - ambient) or are you talking temp drop across the IC? I have measured both, numerous times, under varying conditions. The variance in both measures is very high, significantly higher than I expected.
However, I'd say the mean drop across my DFIC is -60F, with a range from 0 (when I start in the morning--haha) to -150F under very best-case conditions.
I have reported approaches as low as 4F (PARTSMAN reported 2F--and these are without water-meth systems as they can easily give negative approaches). The average approach is mid teens, but it can rise to 50F to 60F under worst-case conditions.

 

Guess we're all over the ballpark.

I just went back to the oem ic. When I compared, the DFIC/m7 scoop with aerogel mat had 3-4F higher approach temps than my oem IC, with the stock bonnet scoop.

I did not do any rerouting as Partsman and Dr. Phil have done.

It ran about 20-40F lower overall than the DFIC at last weekend's track day.

It got on boost faster than the DFIC.

And its recovery was 3-4 times faster.

All checked with my ScanGauge II.

But I never had the ScanGauge when I bought the DFIC, so I never got to make the comparison until I reinstalled the oem.

Who knows, maybe I had my DFIC improperly installed?

It is noteworthy that an apparently all new DFIC is being released.

 

I'm not at all denying your observations--they are valuable. I'm just trying to interpret them.

So your average approach (IAT - ambient) is 3-4F higher with the stock IC than the DFIC. At what IATs, or ambient temperatures are these approaches measured at? Are we talking 60F ambient, or 90F ambient?

What temperature are you reporting here? Approach, or IAT? Are you saying that you saw lower approaches by 20-40F? That would be amazing... Or are you reporting IATs lower by 20-40F? This is still very spectacular. At what ambient temp?

I doubt you had the DFIC installed incorrectly. It's very hard to achieve and the car would hardly run. And about the new DFIC...where is it? No photos, no protos, no word from Peter or Randy. My bet is they are working on R56 stuff...

 

NO. I'm saying that I was shocked to find that my like-new oem IC had slightly lower average approach temps than the DFIC.

By approach, I mean the difference between IAT as indicated on the ScanGauge II vs. the indicated ambient temp on the MINI outside temp gauge.

Peak IATs at the most recent track day were about 150-55 F.

At the previous event, with similar ambient temps, with the DFIC IC, scoop, diverter, and DFIC aerogel mat, peak IATs were 185-190 F.

Also, the recovery time was ridiculously faster with the oem, I'd say 3-4 times as fast as the DFIC.

For each IC, I used the appropriate air scoop. In other words, the oem was used just the way the German engineers designed it to work.

 

This is all good information, thanks! I, like you, didn't get my telemetry until late in my modding days. I would like to revist the stock IC, my modified Alta-like diverter and my super-big-mouth scoop. My bet is that it would do very well indeed compared to other TMICs, of any medium (air or water).
But, it will have to wait, until I retire...oh, well, that's no time soon.

Sorry for reversing the first item also--I did realize that you reported lower approaches with the stock IC. Very nice!!

btw, I've also discovered it's hard to measure recovery time. I just can't figure out a really good way to do it. I wish the SGII had downloadable data logging...

 

For what it's worth, I was talking about approach. That's all I can measure using the Scangauge II (IAT) and OBC (outside ambient temp).

Scott
90SM

 

but plain and simple, back to the topic.. M7 or Alta?

 

This is not hard--given the evidence presented by Scott, NEITHER. Don't waste your money on either of these DFICs, or horizontal flow ICs whatever you want to call their genre. YOu'd be better off investing in upgrades to the stock IC, which will be much cheaper, more satisfying, and ultimately better for your IATs.

 

Its gonna be a never ending comparison... the fact of the matter is you have to decide what you want polished or black, M7 or Alta, hood scoop or no hood scoop,.... because they are doing the same thing at the end of the day and that is cooling the engine.... so it is really up to the buyer of the product.

 

Amen

 

I think I lean to the DFIC for mostly street driving because it has good thermal efficiencies at the price of pressure drop. For high speed, or if you use water injection, I lean towards the Alta, as it favors low pressure drop at the price of some thermal efficiency.

How do you drive?
Where do you want the best benefit?

But any aftermarket IC is pretty pricey, so you should make sure it's the right mod for you.

Matt

For truth in advertising, I'm running a GP with a thermal dispersant coating and some diverter mods and insulation, a la inimmini....

 

What kind of coating do you have on the GP intercooler Matt???

 

What is a heat dissapating coating consist of? I can't imagine adding a layer of insulating paint could do something so miraculous, especially for 100 extra dollars. Does a front mount make for better acceleration than a top mount. Is my alta "classic" TMIC any worse than an M7 DFIC? Im a street daily driver with the car and I am sooo close to buying the M7 DFIC. If i do, I will have spent a very painful $1500, trying to get the best intercooler for my car. I would have bought the M7 DFIC if it was available at the time. Then I read here that people are getting great results from the stock IC. Im torn! If I had money to burn I would buy all of them keep the best one and throw all the bad ones away. Is it worth swapping for the M7 or???? aarrgghh!!

 

Save your money for a head, you already have a good one it came on the car.

 

Exactly

 

I sent the head off for all the mods. the only thing left to do is intercool. Am I just a sucker for what ever Peter says? (Sorry Peter to bring you in this, its just that the DFIC is really expensive =)

 

"Alta intercooler w/ custom alcohol/water sprayer"
What's wrong with this? ^

I'm not planing to have my appendix removed any time soon. What you have is pretty good.

 

"Remember more IS better"

Do you apply this feeling to intercoolers?

All in for the M7 DFIC say "I"

 

Not really. There's more elsewhere.. a bunch more

If you want to quote me, remember more is better, I'm not advocating spending more = better

 

When i get the proper funds i will be ordering the M7 DFIC, cause i have delt with M7 before and i know that all there products are built the right way and not just thrown together to half *** it..... The thing is if you want something get it, it does not matter what other people think cause then every MINI would be the same, so if you want the DFIC from M7 go get it cause you really like it not just because someone said its good or that its not good.....

 

Thanks for the input. You are 100% right. I just want the most efficient intercooler. From what I am reading, it sounds like im freaking out about it and that intercoolers arent as big of a deal as I made them out to be.

On another note, that's ONE more for the M7 if anyones keeping track.

 

This is not at all scientific....

I've had a few different IC's on my Mini now and haven't felt much difference in my normal driving routines which does include track days. I'm sick of swapping out IC's. I like the way the M7 in black looks. It may not be the best, it may not be the worst, heck it may do nothing more then the stock one. Until someone else comes out with one that shows me their's is multiple times more efficent and is a palitable for me price point then I'll think about switching again.

 

Well, gnaster, I think you're not alone! Swapping ICs is just another thing to do each day, along with eating breakfast, putting the kids on the bus, etc. If you have any inclination to collect data to inform this discussion, then it just involves more work, and more swapping. I'm about to make a change in my IC setup, and will do ONE more round of temperature reading and data logging.
I really believe that there is no scientifically conclusive analysis available. For all the data I've collected and reported the standard errors (due to the great variance in real world conditions and the inability to control all the factors) are so large as to make any conclusion of the kind: IC-A is more efficient that IC-B, or ICA lowers approach by X% over ICB under these conditions, extremely unlikely. So, lacking this kind of definitive empirical analysis, what are we left with? There's a lot of science, a lot of experience, and a lot of popo dyno results.
I personally feel that the MINI responds far better to modifications of wheels, brakes and suspension than engine mods unless you go all the way with a systems approach involving a new head.

 

I don't mean to fill this post with uneducated, non informative, non scientific jargin, but the title of this post is Alta vs M7 DFIC. So far im waiting for someone smarter than me to inform me which one is better =)



I think making the mini close to the power of a JCW or Dinan car is worth it and fun!

 

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