Drivetrain quality head s
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,196
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From: Hampton, VA
That's right taunt me with your clutch package
anyone tried these?
The fact of the mater is, why not bigger valves, is what most head builders do. In the big picture bigger valves can't hurt, it's just how big. All valves float. Unless you are using pneumatic followers, springs are too slow with conventional followers. There is an instance where the valve spring stalls in harmony with the momentum of the follower. There are all kinds of spring arrangements, types and presures that are used to control the float. So when someone tells you that the valves have been known to float at 6k, how do they know? Unless there is a very radical cam with a high ramp speed ( barely noticeable slap), you can't detect the slap.
The valve springs are matched to cam events so they are not too heavy or lite. There is a lot of thought a good head builder will put into all aspects of the finished product.
It sounds like Johan & Obe have a good sourse for building heads. At a good cost for performance too. You wanted recomendations. So, talk to a tuner who will give you what you want & they will tell you what you need & how to get there.
The valve springs are matched to cam events so they are not too heavy or lite. There is a lot of thought a good head builder will put into all aspects of the finished product.
It sounds like Johan & Obe have a good sourse for building heads. At a good cost for performance too. You wanted recomendations. So, talk to a tuner who will give you what you want & they will tell you what you need & how to get there.
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,196
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From: Hampton, VA
Dry lubed skirts would be a nice option.
If it were me I would use SWAIN for thermal coating. I use them for snowmobile parts and they turn out well. $32 for a Thermal Barrier Coating the crown and Poly Moly on the skirts per piston.
I've heard that Weisco makes the roller wave for the mini. I don't know if theres any truth to that.
If it were me I would use SWAIN for thermal coating. I use them for snowmobile parts and they turn out well. $32 for a Thermal Barrier Coating the crown and Poly Moly on the skirts per piston.
If it were me I would use SWAIN for thermal coating. I use them for snowmobile parts and they turn out well. $32 for a Thermal Barrier Coating the crown and Poly Moly on the skirts per piston.
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,196
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From: Hampton, VA
2 different piston manufacturers.
The Roller Waves are from The Old One but are actually manufactured by Wiseco.
You had mentioned coatings. Dry lube coatings on pistons help with minimize heat buildup. Good stuff.
Edit:
Missed Johan's post.
Yea, what he said
) I don't know for sure since not many people done this or they're not willing to share. Will I get aftermaket pistons, yes...but my end goals might be different then yours. My opinion, turbo with a lot of boost, nitrous or money burning a hole in your pocket the stock ones are fine. I hope this helps -- Johan
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,196
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From: Hampton, VA
Worth the money...It's hard to say. They're expensive to install. There are turbo guys out there with stock pistons running 250-300HP. I've heard that in Mr. Webbs mule he ran stock internals without a hitch. However some tuners say you will see a gain on a moderatly modded mini due to the effeciency of their piston(they also raise compression to 9:1 which has got me ) I don't know for sure since not many people done this or they're not willing to share. Will I get aftermaket pistons, yes...but my end goals might be different then yours.
My opinion, turbo with a lot of boost, nitrous or money burning a hole in your pocket the stock ones are fine. I hope this helps -- Johan
) I don't know for sure since not many people done this or they're not willing to share. Will I get aftermaket pistons, yes...but my end goals might be different then yours. My opinion, turbo with a lot of boost, nitrous or money burning a hole in your pocket the stock ones are fine. I hope this helps -- Johan
Randy never ran/runs a lot of boost so it probably wasn't an issue for him.
Start running 18+ psi and you're probably going to need them.
Improved quench even on a stock motor will gain you HP. Would it be worth the money though? Not really.
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,072
Likes: 4
Don't set unrealistic expectations for the MINI's 1.6 liter motor. If you are looking for something like the BMW335i's output (300 ft/lbs that is billiard table flat from 1,400 to 5,000 rpm), I doubt that is achievable. BMW is using a combination of direct injection, turbo charging, variable valve technology for both intake & exhaust and about twice the displacement to get to that performance level. All of which are just not available for the R53. (Not even on the aftermarket; someone had a thread going about swapping an R56 engine into the R53 MINI, but that is also doubtful absent some serious integration effort.)
There's been threads for years that all seem to agree that the OEM units have poor quench and a thin upper land. At higher boost levels these become more of an issue.
Randy never ran/runs a lot of boost so it probably wasn't an issue for him.
Start running 18+ psi and you're probably going to need them.
Improved quench even on a stock motor will gain you HP. Would it be worth the money though? Not really.
Randy never ran/runs a lot of boost so it probably wasn't an issue for him.
Start running 18+ psi and you're probably going to need them.
Improved quench even on a stock motor will gain you HP. Would it be worth the money though? Not really.
Don't set unrealistic expectations for the MINI's 1.6 liter motor. If you are looking for something like the BMW335i's output (300 ft/lbs that is billiard table flat from 1,400 to 5,000 rpm), I doubt that is achievable. BMW is using a combination of direct injection, turbo charging, variable valve technology for both intake & exhaust and about twice the displacement to get to that performance level. All of which are just not available for the R53. (Not even on the aftermarket; someone had a thread going about swapping an R56 engine into the R53 MINI, but that is also doubtful absent some serious integration effort.)
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,710
Likes: 1
From: Northampton MA
More is better. 175 - 200 would be perfect for what I want & those are reasonable numbers. Also, you are right about the stock pistons although they are pretty durable but 18lbs of boost is about as much as they can stand for extended periods of time ( IMHO ). You're taking the motor apart anyway? Why not some better pistons?
. 175 - 200 would be perfect for what I want & those are reasonable numbers. Also, you are right about the stock pistons although they are pretty durable but 18lbs of boost is about as much as they can stand for extended periods of time ( IMHO ). You're taking the motor apart anyway? Why not some better pistons?
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2004
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175 hp at the crank is a 7 hp increase over stock. Conceivably that could be achieved with a real good CAI and cat-back implementation. (I though you were producing higher numbers?) More can be had for relatively not too much $. Anything north of 200 (at the crank) is going to start to cost $. And driveability will likely suffer.
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,072
Likes: 4
My personal goal is somewhere around 210 & 200 (hp & ft/lbs) at the crank with the output occurring in the 2,500 - 5,500/6,000 rpm territory (otherwise known as maximizing the area under the curve).
175 hp at the crank is a 7 hp increase over stock. Conceivably that could be achieved with a real good CAI and cat-back implementation. (I though you were producing higher numbers?) More can be had for relatively not too much $. Anything north of 200 (at the crank) is going to start to cost $. And driveability will likely suffer.
And we had a mini with just a CAI, Exhaust, 15%/2% combo lay down 185 HP and 165 TQ 72*F 71% humidity.
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,710
Likes: 1
From: Northampton MA
If 175 hp at the crank is what you are looking for, that is easily achievable with a 17% s/c reduction pulley. (If you are looking for 175 ft/lbs., that is still easiily achievable with a 17% s/c reduction pulley.) And, with a 17% s/c reduction pulley, the torque happens lower on the rev range.
My personal goal is somewhere around 210 & 200 (hp & ft/lbs) at the crank with the output occurring in the 2,500 - 5,500/6,000 rpm territory (otherwise known as maximizing the area under the curve).
My personal goal is somewhere around 210 & 200 (hp & ft/lbs) at the crank with the output occurring in the 2,500 - 5,500/6,000 rpm territory (otherwise known as maximizing the area under the curve).
We'll just have to wait till Johan & Obe give us some #s.
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,196
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From: Hampton, VA
175 hp at the crank is a 7 hp increase over stock. Conceivably that could be achieved with a real good CAI and cat-back implementation. (I though you were producing higher numbers?) More can be had for relatively not too much $. Anything north of 200 (at the crank) is going to start to cost $. And driveability will likely suffer.
We were talking torque not HP.
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,710
Likes: 1
From: Northampton MA
Honestly you need an engine dyno w/ climate controlled room to measure HP at the crank, we can argue until were blue in the face about drive train loss...I've heard of a stock mini running 135 at the wheels and my dyno runs an 06 stocker at 157HP. I'm not really sure where I'm going with this but thought I'de put it out there.
And we had a mini with just a CAI, Exhaust, 15%/2% combo lay down 185 HP and 165 TQ 72*F 71% humidity.
And we had a mini with just a CAI, Exhaust, 15%/2% combo lay down 185 HP and 165 TQ 72*F 71% humidity.
Dyno numbers have been talked to death. I guess people insist that they need those numbers. If you had a dyno that only produced numbers 1 - 100 & did a pull with an output of 56 & installed a head, did another pull with an output of 68, that works for me. All I care about are those 2 lines. The stop watch will tell me the rest.