My MCS has seen many suspension, wheel and tire mods so far, so it's been on the alignment rack a number of times. The first sign of a problem was that I never seemed to get the same alignment figurers off the machine from one time to the next even when nothing had been done to the rear and the second sign was that the inside edge of first my right, then my left, inside wheel lips started to rub the sispension arm. In addition to this my co-driver, who is actually driving the car alot more than me now, was saying he had high speed handling problems but every thing was OK at low speeds. I had heard that rear toe was adjustable but didn't know where the factory adjustment was made until recently. That's when we found the problem! There are two bolts, apx. 19-22mm, at the front of both rear trailing arms that can be loosened to adjust the Toe, all 4 were not tight. Best guess is they were apx. 25-30' lbs. and had obviously been moving around judgeing by the shiny area next to them. So we torqued them down to apx. 80 lbs. No more high speed problem at Sunday's AutoX. Haven't checked the alingment again though. It's nice when your co-driver used to do alignments all the time and has access to an alignment rack and full shop facilities. :smile:

OOPS! There are three bolts. I didn't see the third when Courtney showed me where they had sliped but when putting my Ax tires on today I looked again and saw the 3rd bolt.
_________________
2001 & 2002 SCCA, STS, Pro Solo National Champion

 

Can you describe where about is the bolt to adjust the alignment of the rear toe?

 

There are two bolts at the front of each rear trailing arm. Bolt heads are down, threads up, in line with each other front to rear. The bolts are maybe 3-4" apart from each other and there is a hole between them apx. 22 mm , 7/8" in diameter. When lose, the forward end of the trailing arm will slide from side to side. Move it to where ever you want your toe and tighten. I'm not sure how much range there is and you might just want to check them for tightness if there is no sign they have already moved. (shiny area) The trailing arm is the black curved piece that runs from behind the center of your rear wheels forward to the under side of the body in front of the wheel well. If you look at some of the rear spring/swaybar pictures you will see the arm. Some Porsche people may refer to it as Bananna Arm, derived from it's shape.

 

How about a pic to show us where to look?

 

Great find. Thanks for the update.
FWIW, when I had my rear swaybar changed I experienced a similar problem. One of the bolts securing the bushing on the passenger side was very loose.

 

Just checked my car and i have the same problem. i loosened the bolts and put them back to the factory spot and tightened them down. seems to handle better at high speads again.

 

Mine at least look like they've moved. I haven't put a wrench to them to see if they're loose.

Here're some pics if you want to know where to look. I tried to get some perspective as they're not easy to spot.

Oh, and one of my jacking blocks has gone missing!

Jeff

 

What a timely post!

Just last night, while I was driving home, I noticed a slight instability at the rear during one of my favorite high speed turns (totally safe, on my own, no traffic). This is the first time I have experienced this, normally it is like a rock. It worried me a little bit, then I read this thread.

First thing this morning, I crawled under the car and took a look. Sure enough, there were signs of movement. It is all corrected now, I just wanted to say Thank You! Anybody that drives their cars hard should check this out.

Does anybody know if this is related to the recall notice I just got?

Cheers,
Eric

 

Eric
The recall notice should be for a replacement of the lower strut bolts. Universal replaced mine while I had the coolant bottle being changed. Something about the bolts being torqued wrong or something. Apparently they can fail although the rear suspension still will be held together by the rear links. Get them changed!Have you checked your toe after you lowered your car? I'd be interested in knowing the settings if you have them. Thanks,
Rich

 

Rich,
No, I haven't had the alignment checked yet. I was waiting until I got the lower camber links replaced, then have it all done.

Thanks for the word on the recall.

Eric

 

Thanks for the heads-up! :smile: Sounds like something we all should take a look at. But I have 1 queatoin, how would I know what the original positions are?

 

You can marks in the paint where the bolts were originally torqued down. If you look at the bolts from under the car, and you see a shiny spot beside them, that would be the original position of the bolt.
Hope that helps.

 

Just check mine same thing ....it was move slightly but i haven't check if the bolt are lose guess I will send my mini in to the shop with the rest of the problem. Do u think mini is going to realign the car or just move it back to the original place....prob just going to move it back.....right..?

 

Thanks notpaddyhopkirk, ill be checking it tom!! Will let you know!
:smile:

 

gowest, thanks for starting this. I checked my MC tonight, and the left rear had the shinny spots. I have just started to look into trying my hand at Autox...sooo glad I read this first.

 

Does anyone out there have access to the recommended factory torque for these bolts? I'd rather be on the safe side with suspension bolts...

 

I've just checked mine and they sem to have moved about 1/4" on the left wheel and 3/8" on the right wheel. I'll try to post a pic. It seems to be a lot, but the thing is that the bolts are tight and almost impossible to tighten. So I went to an alignment shop to have it checked, turns out the left rear wheels has 30 degrees of toe in while the right rear wheel has 20 degrees. I didn't have it aligned since Ithey didn't know the correct values. Does anyone here have the correct alignment numbers for the rear wheels? The front alignment figures won't hurt too. Thanks!!

 

>>the left rear wheels has 30 degrees of toe in while the right rear wheel has 20 degrees. I didn't have it aligned since Ithey didn't know the correct values. Does anyone here have the correct alignment numbers for the rear wheels? The front alignment figures won't hurt too. Thanks!!

First I'd like to say for everyone DON'T just move these things because you think they belong somewhere else! I had a problem proven out by inconsistant alignment numbers and an experienced mechanic who did alignments for a living, for some time, told me the bolts should be tighter than they were, based on his experience.

If your 3 bolts are tight, 70+ lbs, then any apparent movement is probably the result of whoever put it where it is, either the factory or an alignment person. If your bolts are loose or you think they may have moved get an alignment and tell the alignment people what you think the problem is.

Toe is measured in degrees or inches and the specs my guy printed for me off his alignment machine is in inches and said, Total Toe at the rear should be between .13" and .26". This is basically 1/8" to 1/4" total toe in! Autocrossera will most likely want to change this to 0" to -?? out, to help the car rotate.

Spec for front total toe is .11" to .19" apx. 1/8" to 3/16" toe in.

 

Look under "camber settings" in this forum. I posted factory alignment spec's that I got from the dealer. When I went to get an alignment after new springs no one had them.

 

What does this exactly mean? I got it from the Camber Settings topic you mentioned.

Rear Toe (total) 0deg 24'+/-8'

What does the 0deg stand for? Is this toe in or out? Is the total for both the left and right rear wheel? :smile:

 

These are from the specs from BMW. I think the 0 deg 24' +/- 08' means approx 1/4 inch +/- 1/12 inch Toe in.

 

>>What does this exactly mean? I got it from the Camber Settings topic you mentioned.
>>
>>Rear Toe (total) 0deg 24'+/-8'
>>
>>What does the 0deg stand for? Is this toe in or out? Is the total for both the left and right rear wheel? :smile:

It means "ZERO Toe" as in not toed in or out, or anything between, +24 minutes (+ being toe in) and -8 minutes (- being toe out) There are 60 minutes in one degree.


_________________
2001 & 2002 SCCA, STS, Pro Solo National Champion

 

So this means that my rear toe in should read 0 degrees. Or just a little over/under 0 degrees. What I have on my car now is 30 degrees on the rear left and 20 degrees on the rear right. Should I have it set to 0 degrees? But I guess I'll have to check how tight the bolts are first.

 

>>So this means that my rear toe in should read 0 degrees. Or just a little over/under 0 degrees. What I have on my car now is 30 degrees on the rear left and 20 degrees on the rear right. Should I have it set to 0 degrees? But I guess I'll have to check how tight the bolts are first.

Thanks for hunting this info down. I have a question, though. Are you certain your mechanic didn't say 30 minutes vs. 30 degrees? It sounds like (given earlier posts) that you're within factory specs.

I want to make sure mine are similarly within spec, but more importantly, I get a little weave from the back on high-speed turns and I'm trying to isolate the source. Just feels vague during transitions. (This is all relatively speaking. The car still has limits that are unbelievably high!)

Jeff