Didn't think it was possible that Precision could get someone like this to do cyclinder heads for the Mini? Well, we did. And they are available now.
If you don't know who they are or what they do here is a link to an article: http://www.geomagic.com/en/solutions/wegner.php
or just Google them and see who they build engines for.
Here is their web site (though not much information is presented): http://www.wegnerautomotive2.com/

$2350 with PSI spring setup and stock cam
$2800 with PSI spring setup and custom profile cam
Money back guarantee: If our Wegner Motorsports Stage 2 cylinder head with does not deliver a performance improvement compared to the current head you are running (any cylinder head) send it back for a full refund within 30 days. Cams must be comparable. Excludes shipping and handling chargers.

 

So what can they do for someone running a twincharge setup? I am seriously look at head work next, but Havent really seen anyone's feedback on what the benifites would be on TC'd. I assume Wegner would do custom work per basis at that price. I just dont want to throw loot at a head that wouldnt be specific to my application.

Thanks in advance for any insight.

 

What kind of engine RPM can we spin these heads to?

The pricing is, um, cough, alot. I'd expect we get to keep our current cyl. head for that price.

Also, your wording says that the Stage 2 could be comparable to stock. "...compared to the current head you are running..." I'm hoping you meant most aftermarket port jobs. I can't think of anyone that would blow 3 g's to maybe get a gain.

Next, why is Stage 3 excluded from the guarantee? What IS Stage 3?

Lastly, why do you say free shipping, and then say shipping and handling charges excluded?

 

Trickle X-
If there is any more information you need, please feel free to call again.
Don

 

--Cylinder head RPM is dependant on the weight of the valve train and the Mini hydraulic rockers. The Stage 2 RPM limit with stock rockers is 8000. Change to solid tappets and titanium valves then the limit changes to 9250.

--The pricing I received from Wegner is actually quite reasonable for what you receive and that is why I decided to bring them to the market. You have to understand that you are not getting a head ported by some guy with a dye grinder and flow bench: these heads are CNCed by arguably America’s most successful independent racing engine company, Cosworth included. The development time and money that went into the port shape was considerable. The shape of the valves are custom and made by Manley and the PSI spring setup is the same used by nearly all teams in NASCAR, IndyCar, ALMS, Grand Am, and Sprint cars just to name a few. (Same for the Manley valves for that matter.)

--You can’t think of anybody that would blow 3g’s to maybe get a gain? Me either. But there is no maybe. No one has a head as developed as this for the Mini. And they can’t because they don’t have access to the resources Wegner does. Guarantee: I’m saying that this head is better than any aftermarket head you can buy for the Mini. It excludes the return shipping (if needed) and our Stage 3. Stage 3 utilizes the BMW Racing spring setup instead of PSI. There is a $350 refundable core charge.

--In the world I conduct business (high performance applications for Porsche, BMW, and Mini) the cylinder head and then headers are the first areas, not last, people seek performance gains. Eliminate the restriction then add more boost; turbo or supercharger. That aptly applies to the Mini as the restriction is on the exhaust side (starting at the valve) not intake side. Getting air in is the easy part. Getting it through and out is the hard part.

--For those in the know, Wegner Motorsports is a big deal in American racing. This is an interesting article about their company: http://www.geomagic.com/en/solutions/wegner.php

 

Don,

Do you or Wegner offer solid tappets for MINI heads?

Thanks,

Henry

 

Yes, solid tappets are available.

 

Hi Don,

very nice.......

what mods do you recommend to get to what level of performance....what is the ultimate set up from you and what is the range of performance that can be expected.......

not only whp and torque but "rise time"..... throttle response

how much difference in performance will this make.....are we talking 10-20-30-40% or is some of this looking for "fly poop in pepper"

 

This is would be too lengthy a discussion to write out but...

The Wegner cylinder head is not all about flow. As they like to say, their Truck motor flows less than last year but makes 8 HP more and it consistently runs at the front of the field. It's all about drivability and that is where momentum of air flow comes into play.

There are too many configurations of Mini’s to give any valid number.

The ultimate setup I offer is the Wegner cylinder head and Stahl header/CAT back. I guarantee them both performance wise. Then I'll look to add the M62 when I'm done programming it with MTH. Couple it with a decent intake and you’re done. Well, almost.

When you are talking about 230 wheel HP or more ought to change the fuel delivery system. The Mini is limited to 380cc injectors because of the fuel pump. I am currently trying to address the problem.

 

That's ridiculous! Does software come with it, do you offer software, or is the customer left with the task of finding software and tachometer that will actually handle this?

What's the BMW Racing spring setup?


In addition, do these cylinder heads affect drivability in any way (e.g. - power delivery, noise, vibration)?

 

--I do not understand what you mean by ridiculous. It's true.
--Of course you need software as with any modifications made that matters. Yes, I have it available.
--BMW Racing is what is used in their touring cars.
--Head work doesn't increase noise and only improves drivability.

 

Personally I hope this thread reaches the response numbers that the thread on the DFIC Numbers and the M62 thread has because this kind of expense really does need a very thorough discussion and reveal.

Looking at perhaps $4k for the M62 mod, and that without any head change or exhaust change (which seems almost essential to get the most out of the M62) and then adding another $1600 to $3k for a head - this requires some real thinking and a ton of further discussion.

The M62 thread has really accomplished a great service so far to get the laundry out on what can be expected. This thread hopefully will accomplish the same.

So, dmh, keep the info coming please. Manufacturer credibility is very important, but won't alone get me to write a check for $3K.

Thanks,
Paul

 

Don, thank you for the quality response, I definitely appreciate it. I know we aren't on the same wavelength most of the time. I can understand your frustration though as a racer trying to talk to a forum that's primarily street-driven MINI's, only with an occasional splash of recreational racing.

I would like to hear what the differences are between Stage 2 and Stage 3 offerings. Can Stage 3 support over 10k rpm?

For everyone else; Don has a good point, even though it's tough to get a handle on. Cylinder head design is not just about a single "flow number". The quality of the airflow, including tumble, swirl, and inertia are all just as if not more important than a single statistic. In the end what matters is torque in terms of area under the curve across all TPS and Load points. That type of three dimensional characterization is much tougher to demonstrate than a single data point. Just the fact these heads are CNC'd means they will be exact every time; the final prototype that Don OK'd for max performance is the same as the one you'll get on your doorstep. That's impressive in my book, something the factory can't lay claim to with the stock sand cast heads!

 

At that rate (~$2,500 for head + ~$3,500 = ~$6,000), you might think about a twin-charged set-up. As an aside, I have wondered whether the twin-charged application should be thought of as a super-turbocharger or a turbo-supercharger. Can anyone shed any light on that?

 

Killer heads.. are there any real world numbers from a mod'd MINI S ?? maybe befor and after heads?? The Tech is good and the heads sound good.. but what would be the average torque numbers or maybe HP numbers.. from guys like us, not full out race teams with all the bells and whistles, or is this more for the guys that HAVE the bells and whistles??

The HP gains MUST be awesome for the base heads with a spring kit upgrade for 2600.00 !! as for the guy with a die grinder and a flow bench..... well we got 200+ WHEEL HP with a stock intercooler and 98* air!! and for 1000.00 Less!! Imagine what would have been there with a big intercooler and cooler out side air?? That being said.. the guys looking for the name and the extra preformance 2600.00 is a drop in the fun bucket!! ( plus gaskets and install.. ) Great info....

Thanks

Just me...........................................

THUMPER

 

--The numbers that get put out by many tuners are unfortunately not applicable or valid. If you want real world numbers come to the track. I'll be at VIR in November for three days. Please remember that flow is not really what you are chasing.
--For the addition $1000 you get a highly developed, CNCed head, the spring setup, and valves which allow you to rev the engine to a higher RPM limit. With stock valves you begin to lose control of the intake valve before 6000 RPM. And the head can be replicated as opposed to the guessing done without CNC capability.
--Yes, this head is from a race shop that does have all the bells and whistles. And it is now available for those who would like it but never before had access to it.

 

10,00 RPM! You've got the bottom end to do that? To get that with the valve train titanium and other exotic metals would be needed everywhere. Could I have it done? Yes. Would it be costly? Extremely. Would it be fun? Yes.

 

Don,

Thanks for the insight the other day. I am defintley interested in the head. I will let you know how it goes with my other issue once I get the car back together. Thanks for the insight on that as well.

So what dates will you be down at VIR? I would be interested in a trip. I love that track.

Thanks

Cole

 

Perhaps I'm speaking in a different language.

Here. That number is quite high. Right-o. Keep up the good work, governor.

 

I know all minis vary but is there at least a RANGE of hp and torque that can be expected ? There must have been some testing of this nature done along the way.

 

one would think..... but the problem is that none of these cars have the same mods so predicting hp gains is hard...... who would buy this kind of head as a first....or only mod ..... so posting 20-40 hp gain on a stock engine is a bit meaningless..... but I am with you.... it is a spec I would like to see..... posting numbers on the "62" kit is the same way because of this "what else is on the car" problem ..... few of us can afford to get our engines done entirely at one time... and most do it in stages...... as numbers get released the premis that the head is the most important piece to the power puzzle should be confirmed....or not.

 

FYI, prices have gone down a bit and if you check his website, there are other head packages that are very similar to other heads price/options. I see Stage II in my future...before the M62.

Oh and there is a test/used Stage 1 on sale in the used parts section.

 

the Wegner site offers an on-line store where CNC'd heads go for $1.500 (chevy). Presumably, one could order directly from Wegner. What exactly does DMH offer for the price bump?

 

No, just like Stahl headers Wegner heads go exclusively through DMH Motorsports. If you research who Wegner Motorsports is and what they do you’ll begin to get an appreciation of what went into developing this head. And with research and development comes cost.
Concerning the Chevy, it does not come with the same parts as the Mini head. CNCing the head is considerably less than $1000. The big money is in the valve train – there are 16 of everything. The Mini head is ported in the same manner and comes with the same parts found on most all NASCAR, ALMS, and Grand Am race cars: Manley SS valves, racing guides, and a PSI spring kit.