Just wondering if any of the vendors and / or purchasers of this kit could throw in any input on it for me. I am really considering this M62 package that is coming available soon but at the same time I have always been interested in a twin charge setup.

1. Is there any hacking or relocating of any parts. I read somewhere that you had to "modify" the firewall so to speak.

2. Why 2 BOV's versus just one with the other twin charge kits.

3. What pulley are you guys running on the charger? Has anyone tried and oversize like Alta did with their kit.

4. I am running a 2% crank pulley. Will that be an issue?

5. Where is the customer support for this product? I can only find info on Detroit Tuned site but it's quite limited.

6. Should i be upgrading my clutch with the basic kit? If yes, what do you guys recommend.

7. Any advantages or disadvantages of using aluminum piping versus silicone for intercooler pipes?

I will probably have more questions as time goes, hopefully this thread can help out others as well.

Thanks

Seann

 

Nice list of questions. I will aswer the ones I can now and I am sure Tuls will be able to answer some of them in more depth since he has been running this kit for over a year now and made some rediculous power.

1. You will need to remove the plastic inner firewall, not the steel structure . I have mine removed right now and there is sooooo much more room ni there without it.

2. Some of the pictures you may have seen were actually of the M600 with a straight turbo setup, the reason there were 2 BOV's is we had to improvise slightly with the piping and there was only one functional part. This was only a mock up.

3. Typically we run the stock pulley.

4. If it were me I would put the stock pulley back on

5. We offer supprt online via the forums, email and by phone at the shop in Torrance Ca.

6. Should you? well of course but I know tuls has been ran a stock clutch for quite a while and its holding up.

7. I dont have an honest answer for that but I will find out and get back to you if tuls doesnt beat me to it.

 

Hard Pipes are typically better for many reasons.... strenth, saftey... leaks... etc... it is the standard... if it wasn't heavy we would accually use stainless cuase it would not dent or wear as easy as aluminum...

thats all i got LOL

 

Thanks guys. Like I promised a couple more questions;

1. Where does the oil return route to? The Alta route(d) to the oil drain on the oil pan and that makes me a little nervous.

2. I know you use the SAFC with your kit. I am currently running a Unichip, has anyone ran the TC kit with a Unichip? If no what would your advise be.

3. How many CEL' and codes will be thrown. I know this is a risk but I don't want my cluster lit up like a Christmas tree.

Seann

 

Buy the Helix kit ...

 

There are a few reasons why I will not buy the Helix kit. Please feel free to respond because I wanna explore all avenues. Other than the reasons listed below I have heard good thing about the Helix kit.

I am from Canada. I am not spending money shipping the car to the US to have it installed.

I am not paying for an install when I have people here that give "beer rates"

I think the silicone hosing for pipes looks horribly ugly.

Now back to topic...can one of you Fireballed Fella's answer the other couple of questions from two posts up.

Thanks

Seann

 

That is totally legit. Didn't really look to see your location. Sorry.

The silicone piece may not have that bling factor, but for me, it is cooler(literally) because of its effect on the charge. To each his own.

-Brian

 

I never understood the silicon pipe thing also, even if it does have an effect on the boost temp its still pretty ugly. I have seen the helix kit in personal and it looks kinda scrappy, like I know its powerful and quality but it does have the wow factor like the fireballed kit does.

 

With the release of the Fireballed! ECU will you continue to be using the S-AFC to tune the Twincharge or your new ECU or both?

 

The Helix kit is more function then display.....they also use a cast header.....which if it was up to me.....so would I......

 

I would say they will go with the ECu tune.....as there are distinct advantages over the Apexi.

The only disadvantage I would see is adjustability on the fly. You can do that with the Apexi, plus it does give you some vital info although I would like more.

 

So, what kind of power is Tuls seeing???

 

[quote=Fireballed Brian;1150796]

4. If it were me I would put the stock pulley back on [quote]


Brian,

I am thinking of putting a 2% crank pulley on my MCS JCW. In answer to Sean's question you recommend that the stock crank pulley should be replaced. This suggests there could be a problem with oversized crank pulleys. Are you aware of any issues that I should be aware of before I install the 2% pulley on my car?

 

Oversized crank pullies are the same as reducing your SC pulley by the same amount. ideally you want to make more boost via the turbo for efficeintcies. For the same given boost when compared between SC & Turbo, the turbo will produce more power. My advice would be to install the stock sized lightened crank pulley if you decide to twincharge in the near future.

 

If I don't plan to twin charge, would you say that a larger crank pulley is an effective and safe way of increasing power, bearing in mind that I have a JCW with a 14.5% supercharger pulley?

 

Yes that will put u at an overall ratio of 16.5% reduction on your SC. Now some people will argue about it being safe, as its not a true balancer style pulley. I have arguments for both sides. Personally i dont run one on mine, as I already have a 14lb flywheel. I do however run one on my TT and have had no issues.

 

It will be safe. That is the first thing Webb will recommend for a JCW car infact. He and I did over a hundred or so with no issues. It wont be a 16.5% though, more like a 16.1% since the ratios on the s/c are not directly related.

-Brian

Now back on topic...

 

Tuls has over 300whp on his twincharge setup.


Alta copied Hubie's design of routing it to the oil drain. Hubie bought a brand new 2002 and it wasn't long until it was twincharged. I first drove his car in Dec 2004 and he already had his car t/c for a year. That's the setup he's running on his as well as all of the installs I've seen.

You'll get the permanent CEL light. First reason is because the MAP sensor sees an overboost condition. Secondly, many t/c people don't run a catalytic converter, so you'll get one from that too.

 

Is there any way to trick the MAP sensor so to speak?

 

Yes, I think Helix found a solution on one of the MAP sensor errors. However, there's a few errors (from the MAP or throttle body) that can/will be thrown from having a turbo feed boost into the upstream side of the throttle body.

 

I am guessing this solution Helix has goes hand in hand with their TC kit and is not something i can do on the side...

 

What was done was a voltage clamp was placed on the upstream map sensor....now I am not 100% sure, but to me a voltage clamp sounds like it interupts the voltage coming from the sensor and makes/alters it to stay at the given voltage the ECU wants to see. This will keep it from kicking the Upstream Map Sensor too high error code.

I will be looking into this in more detail when I have the time & making a circuit to keep the P code from spitting out.

 

Glad to see so many responses from guys actually running twin charge. Thanks a lot for all the replies I have learned a lot from this thread. Now someone answer me this.

Why has no one gone turbo only? If you removed the supercharger you could design a larger more efficient intake manifold to go with the turbo. Would you not see more or a least more reliable power that way.

I have always admired the TC thing my only negative thought has really been; why would you want to boost, boost on something as small as a 1.6L especially considering how scrawny our intake manifold and head ports are.


Seann

 

Ryephile (of Detroit Tuned) built a turbo only MCS... check around, should be links. Install looked very trick and tidy!

Manifold... To work well you're talking knowledge/skill, shop/ equipment + time & $$. And there's no saying that the T/B would not 'take'th away all that the intake give'th'. IMO if the manifold held more potential the guys at Saclam (Mugen) would've exploited it.

Reliable power?
A guy like Tuls who runs with more boost from a larger turbo & spins his S/C fewer rpms per engine rpm ought to have pretty reliable power (if he doesn't push the envelope too hard ). I think I read that he's pushing 300 ponies

This brings to mind a question:
What's the expected service life of a turbo (eg like Rye's) these days, say vs. the OEM S/C? And along these lines have we (yet) a case study on a T/C rig? NOTE: I appreciate that one T/C rig does not a trend make. Nonetheless, I'd be interested to compare potential service life to fun factor and or associated $.

IMO choice of turbo vs. TC ... Both involve Major underbonnet revamp/plumbing
a) T/C = more crowded & more heat
b) Useable torque in the first 3k rpm / power delivery

The TC builds boost so much lower & quickly than even the most optimized turbo-only config could. Torque that's useable at low or high speed. IMO this type of power is more useful in day to day driving - YMMV

If the car were a weekend track-purpose car, or for someone who preferes living life @ 4K+rpm, then turbo spool time probably isn't an issue. Potential for improved mileage in turbo-only is also a boon.

In regards to your comment about the tiny displacement, wimpy manifold & ports... I think the whole point of T/C is a best attempt to overcome these. And the fact that our little 1.6 blocks are as sturdy as the proverbial brick sh!thouse means we can handle boost x2, as long as we don't get too crazy.

It will be interesting to see what the 07/08 turbo MCS drives like. Being that its still only a 1.6L I don't have high hopes. Still have to get those gasses building. If its similar in response to the new A3 turbo it'll be an interesting compromise. Realistically speaking, unless they lighten the internals/flywheel etc. it aint gonna rev any faster. And even twin scrolls have their efficiency limits.

 

I got a big question about the twin kit.

Why go "Twin" when the turbo alone can produce more power, more efficiently than the combination? Wouldn't the supercharger, in effect, become a bottleneck?

Very trick setups for singles can be had much much cheaper than any TC kits. Knowledge is power if you know where to look (read not in a mini forum).

Discontinued and a bit small IMO, but you get the idea: http://www.turbo-kits.com/mini_turbo_kits.html