Great info!

I want to clarify what we do on our heads that are primarily used on the street:

We are after high quality flow - which is more than CFM, it is the way the air flows (which includes velocity). This is determined by numerous factors, and those are what we have been working on for the past two plus years with the MINI head. We have numerous ways to test the quality - one being a flow bench, which is very important info - especially when used in combination with other tools like the dyno and track/street testing on the car.

Do we make more torque - absolutely! Most mods, like the pulley, the intake, the head, move the torque curve up and don't dramatically change it. That's what we do here! For racing, we can sacrifice that a bit, but we have only done so on a handful of purpose built heads.

Hope that helps!
Randy

 

Thought I'd throw in a few links from discussion in FL.


http://www.sunshineminis.org/forums/...ic.php?t=10131

http://www.thumperoforangepark.com/

http://www.sunshineminis.org/forums/...pic.php?t=9341

 

I have a pretty good memory. If I'd seen it 5 times before I'm sure I wouldn't have asked. Even better, if it was posted on Larry's site someplace I could find I wouldn't ask at all

 

Does anyone have any experience with having a head extrude honed? It seems like a fairly economical way to get smooth passages. Sure, the abrasive slurry won't give you a three angle valve job, but it has to improve flow somehow, right?

 

You need to cut the seat after porting anyway. So, yes, you are correct it is less expensive but you won't get the same result with an extrusion hone by itself.

 

Nor will you get what your looking for either.

 

Has anyone flow benched a JCW head?

 

We have flow benched a JCW head - I have to find the numbers...

I realized I never posted the delta in power we are seeing on our head - usually between 16 and 21 at the wheels.

Hope that helps!
Randy

 

Could either of you elaborate on this?
An Extrude Hone process can get in all the nooks and crannys that can not be reached porting by hand.
Unless, of course, reaching those nooks and crannys offers no benefit.

 

"An Extrude Hone process can get in all the nooks and crannys that can not be reached porting by hand." Exactly.

All the cutting & shaping realy needs to be done by hand. A good head can take many hours to get right, lots of detail work, CC, flow bench, etc. The extrusion hone can be used for the clean up & finish work ( and work very well ). A great use for the tool are intake manifolds & runners. For matching headers & manifolds I have bolted the the intake to the head to match & finish the ports, works very well. Everything counts, nooks, crannys, whatever is in the way.... Hope this helps.

 

I see what you're saying, your statement in post #130 makes sense now. Thanks.

 

You're welcome.

 

I am intersted to see the JCW numbers. Thanks

Is the 16-21 WHP gain that you are noting with a stock cam or a aftermaket? If so which one? -- Johan

 

The problem with the Extrude Hone medium is that fluids will choose the path of least resistance so there are no controls and it will only remove a small amount of material so intelligent shaping will not be possible as stated by stevecars60.

 

That's true...But you can have controll of where the fluid removes material all you have to do is build dams and make the fluid go where YOU want it to go...It works...I wouldn't do it extrude honeing by itself though -- Johan

 

I never said you should attempt any shaping with an extrude hone. I said "All the cutting & shaping realy needs to be done by hand."

 

I see that DMH and Fireball are bringing heads to the market.... I know of at least one other that is in development...... so this mod is heating up....... is anyone curious at what the potential gains are for an aftermarket head......

let's make it easy.... I am a guy with an 05... I have a pulley a Milltek cat-back, no software and a DDM intake..... I am thinking of a head....lots of hype lately... I got a few bucks....what can I expect.... do I need software.... should I do a header... is a cam part of thee deal..... if I do pull the trigger, what benefits will I get.....today... not six mo from now when I can afford something else that I "need" .....

 

I can't think of a single mod other than a custom built motor that requires a long and detailed conversation with your chosen provider. Don't believe there's a one size fits all head that will offer major benefit to all..... This is really the heart of the motor (especially since the valve train is up there on top) and intended use, driving style, RPM range etc really get into the mix.

So I'd go about it a different way... Choose at least one, and then start the discussions about how to get what you want with them. If you carry on this conversation with more than one, you will quickly find that you will want to work with one specifically pretty quickly....

Matt

 

Good advice...

what are the gains in whp and tq? what are the top 5 questions that a head vendor would ask?

I want to drill this down.....

 

There is one big secret with a good headwork for the cooper S.

No one has done what we have done.....

Two heads will run this year hard testcycles on the Nürburgring and the german Autobahn.

More to come in a week or two......

 

I went to your site.... no English translator

 

Wow! A vague product announcement steeped in magic unseen by common man.

Don't get that often around here

 

We had big trouble with pinging and timing retard under hard driving on the autobahn.
The engine starts pinging in 6th gear at 6000 rpm whem the boost raises above 14 psi.
You will never have this problem in the states but we have this problem in germany and lost some engines.
We found out that the had was never modified to run with a boosted engine.

I don´t want tell to much cause David from Kassmotorsports is intersted to sell the head in the states and it is unfair to give amway all the details.

 

What exactly is the process for an Extrusion Hone? Is this more of a polishing process by passing an abrasive soltuion through the head? I have heard the term before but am not really clear on exactly what it means...

Thanks

 

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