goin440, your pictures appear to be an OEM head without any work done to it.
A while ago I posted some JCW head pictures of the ports. Don't know if they are still around.

 

The head you have pictured looks box stock.

A regrind , in most cases , has no downfall as long as the rocker has enough adjustment in it. If you are looking for torque, the cam would not have lots of lift. I'm gussing, memory is NOT what it was, but a typical 4 cylinder BMW torque cam would look, something like @.050 duration 220 to 230, lift .280 to 290 & the stock rockers would be just fine ( stock @.050 duration 206 to 210, lift 230 to 250 ). These could be pretty conservative numbers but they are something close to to what I remember using. A high winder would have much higher numbers & you could easily run out of adjustment. There are some regrind companies that weld material on the cam so you don't have this problem ( this would require a little research ).

 

That head is stock. Incidentally, the heads on 05 onwards cars are the same as the 02-05 JCW heads. They are machined by Swindon Race Engines in the UK and I've seen the CNC machine working first hand. Not a huge amount of work is done on the face of it, but it's certainly better than nothing. Ther exhaust ports are appreciably larger.
I remember the owner of SRE mentioning that they have a slightly different profile for the newer JCW kits which are sent directly to Oxford. When I visited there must have been close to 500 odd heads lying in various states of assembly

Cheers,

Henry

 

go to tje link Khuevo posted and compare that to bug yourself out:
http://www.theoldone.com/components/...ead_modifi.htm

 

You are not thinking about this clearly. The proprietary work done by teams such as factory supported stay that way for a reason: perceived competitive advantage. And that knowledge is exactly why you would hire someone who holds it. The people who perform work for Precision both currently do and in the past have worked for factory supported teams in both two and four wheels.

 

I'm not a head expert and that is why I rely on those with factory race experience to do my heads and headers. And that is the reason why race/track people choose us for their Porsche and BMW programs: I have the access to the people they need. And through that avenue is how we developed and are still developing our Mini business.

 

You are misinformed. It is much more complex than that.

 

I don't understand this comment either.

You probably have lots of "proprietary" software running right now on your computer. Just go to the software companies and try to get the source code Its ... your software (albeit sometimes licensed for use).

I would bet there are lots of proprietary things you use everyday and probably dont even know it ... protocols ... technologies in electronic widgets, etc.

 

As with all of our business, by meeting and having a discussion about the application.

 

Don't bother.... you're looking at one.

So, this gives us a great baseline. The however minor the work done, we can see the end result through experience. MCS and MC JCW are the same with the exception of the inconel valves, so while this is a JCW MC head, it applies to the MCS too. To my untrained eye, the only work that appears to be done is a CNC-esk port on the exhaust. Click my gallery for a much larger photo of each (1280x920).

I don't know the latest numbers, but this porting was good for what, about 15hp on either MC/MCS? The cam equation can be factored out. JCW retains OEM cams, which are the same in MC/MCS, which effectivly gives in to another baseline.

Very interesting. Anybody with a late-model JCW head and camera? I recall only a slight power increase over the model years within the S only. Surely an 05 MC would show signs of life with its gains coming from flow. And was the increase not associated to charger coating? Of course, this could speak volumes for the proper ecu tune too (JCW kits come with a tune code).

 

call webb and tell him what you want . he maybe can help . it sounds like he's going for everyday driving (big torque). i'm at 170 lbs. at the wheels with just 15% pulley and intake and full alta exhaust oh and coil pack and wires.and the GIAC flash. this was at 3500 rpm to 5000 rpm. so if i can get over 200 lbs. to wheels with a head and cam combo i'll start saving now. detroit tuned by-pass going on tomorro . ha .

 

Try enforcing your head modifications or customization in a court of law or with a patent, I doubt you'll get very far, that is what I mean by proprietary!!

 

Too true.
They do all show improvement even in the lower rpm ranges. It'a also true that the tiny 1.6l motor will not be a torque monster but it would ne nice to know for sure whether or not it is possible to habe the most improvement below 6K.
So far everything I can recall hits max hp at redline even when the redline is raised.
Admittedly my tuning experience is ancient and is V8 based but you could pretty much define where you wanted the torque to peak through well defined compnenet specification.
Am I naive in thinking this isn''t possible with this motor? FOr now lets pretend cost isn't a barrier (shyuh right).
What would it take to build a motor that had a fat mid range torque improvement. One off cam, head, intake, exhaust, etc.
Can it be done?

 

obe - I have never seen one make less horsepower than redline, but the good news is the torque curve is super flat and starts low, so it isn't a total lump of a motor.

As for the proprietary thing - I am more worried about competitve advantage, not court of law, and I know we don't have anything legally defined as proprietary. Easy enough to understand why I don't want to give out specific info beyond what I have already given. I don't mind discussing flow numbers, etc. If there is info I haven't thrown up, let me know.

To debunk some of what has been stated here - the '05 head is the same as the '02 head - I've removed both. The JCW head is different (albeit not much). What is the same on the '05 is the supercharger. Before '05 the non-JCW had a teflon lined rotor while the JCW had a graphite lined rotor, now they all have the same supercharger with the exception of the pulley size.

Hope that helps!
Randy

 

Thanks Randy.

That sounds close to what I'm trying to express. I really am being out there in theory. Small displacement and low reciprocating mass will never make a ton of torque. A flat long torque curve is soooo nice. I see curves now I would have never been able to build 30 years ago. It's awesome.
If there is a way to take a stock curve and just raise it without shifting it up the rpm band it would be nice. Maybe that expresses it better.

I will be bugging you in the future.

 

Dam page still says 1.5 liter

Never have seen a price for that work though. Drool worthy as it may be.

 

what about this stroker kit i'm hearing about ? that would bump cc's up torque would haveta follow .

 

Like Norm said in an earlier post.

I doubt that'll happen. The technical reasons were discussed quite a long time ago. jlm being the chief investigator at the time.

Not something I would want to run.

 

 

damb i'll try again

 

Bob....Thank you for starting this thread.....

As a company in this particular field of expertise (MINI Tuning), we always have to look for the best possible product or service to offer our customers.

We would prefer to do most product developments in house as we do have more contoll of the end products. But at some point you have to realize that there's companys out there with more knowledge, history and or pedigree.

And finaly it was inevitable that we had to offer a head, so I started to look around and my number one choice was Cosworth, a fantastic company
with more history and pedigree than most. After months of discussions
and pushing our cause, Cosworth agreed to make a first article for some extensive testing.

Testing and R&D is a two way disussion and can not be accheived in a vacuum, so our direct input and needs where used to finalize the product.

These where the most important variables we where looking for:

1. Drivabillity, smooth power delivery with no strange flatspots or incompatabillity with available cams in the market place.

2. The flatest torque curve that could possibly be accheived on the MINI
engine allowing strong pulling power in any gear at almost any RPM.

3.Great safe power delivery, without the need to lean out fuel mixtures
to the point of negative impact to life expectancy of your engine.

4. Terrific throttle response.

When we had production meetings with the engineers at Cosworth one word
was heard more then any other.......Velocity of gases, not CFM.

It seems like a some tuners love to tout the CFM number as the all conquering solution to performance, the reallity is that most of us drive our
cars on a daily basis, stop and go traffic, low to medium rpm loads with a few
high rpm pulls that last a few seconds. And these cars get used for all out racing at very high RPM load at an extended period of time 3-6 times a year at best. We recommend great CFM with superior Velocity for most
daily driven MINI Coopers.....

This is where our regular valve head excels over a big valve head. Strong low down power, superior throttle response, incredibly flat
torque curve for power anywhere in the power band (not peaky).

For port to port consistency both the intake and exhaust ports are CNC'd
and hand blended where needed. This will guarantee close to perfect gasflow
in to each cylinder. The combustion chamber is also CNC'd for the same reason. valve grind angles specific to this application.

A closer look at the last dyno chart, reveals a pretty rich A/F ratio
from 4300rpm and up, giving some more tuning possibillities and with that
more HP and Torque.

The Standard valve head is priced at $1599.00 + core return.
And we also have a ***** out Big valve head at $3600 no core return
needed as we will give you a virgin (non used) head.

As the M62 Supercharger system is looming large in the near future, and with that more CFM, torque and HP capabilities, a head should be on the shopping list for anyone serious about power.

And we always answer the phones to discuss you particular
needs or wants, with no pressure to buy.

peter
Team M7
562-608-8123

Here's some images and some Dyno charts:

Combustion chamber.


Intake port.


Stock Torque curve.


With Head, CAI, 16%, Exhaust.

 

herbie hind, the problem with the stroking the MINI is clearance between the connecting rod bolts on the big end journal and the support ladder (lower case) side. When increasing stroke, the entire crank rotation becomes larger so it’s not just the rod length to be considered. Having stroked a Harley long ago and disassembled a MINI motor, I can tell you there is less room in the MINI block’s lower end. Just today I was demonstrating (with the actual parts) the infeasibility or increased barriers to stroking a MINI.

obehave, If I’ve posted this once I’ve posted this a half dozen times, the price with 1mm oversized exhaust valves and .5mm oversized intake valves on an ENDYN head designed for midrange torque with more detailed workmanship than you can shake a stick at, was ( a year ago) $1,282. Subtract the valves comes out to $1,050. All it takes is patience. 20,000 miles on mine and still going strong with no complaints.

 

Since I don't plan on grinding or polishing anything myself, I am best off to work with an expert, explain my needs/wants, get their stories (in pretty much the same terms they have used in this thread) and then make my decision based on:
> which one best fits my personal needs as a driver/owner
> which are likely to provide decent customer service (delivery and support)
> cost (not price, but cost) of the mod including whatever ELSE I might have to do to make it work (e.g., do I need a 16% SC pulley, or will a 15% be okay, since I already HAVE a 15%?)

If and when it comes time for me to get a head/cam/valves, etc. I'll go shopping. This thread has made me confident that WMS, m7 (at least) are good suppliers to shop when that happens (there are probably others, too). Thanks to both of them and all those who have contributed to this discussion.

 

No doubt what so ever where my head money will be spent >ENDYN head

 

Not that it matters much in the scale of things, but this is what SRE told me. They just do the outsourced work so they may not know exactly what happens to the heads after they leave, but I would expect them to have a pretty good idea seeing that they build all JCW bespoke engines (like the Lysolm/Whipple charged MCS with JE pistons, Arrow precision rods, ARP fixings etc they used last year at Le Mans...I've seen this engine and it's very trick )

They've done over 7000 heads so far and counting by the day....that's quite a few JCW heads.

Also, I bought a stock 05 head and charger from a friend that works at a local dealer and the head had some light machining like in the picture, and he confirmed that the stock head is similar now to the 02-05 JCW heads...weird...he may have reinstalled a stock head though and sold me the JCW one

Or Oxford keep the 'best' heads for the UK cars...I dunno

Cheers,

Henry