Thanks!

 

One more question (bear with me I'm a chemist not an engineer!).... Since flow is not the be-all and end-all of head work and you need to consider things like the way the air flows (turbulence etc.), won't this also be affected by the volume of air or speed of the air actually flowing through the head? In other words, If you are comparing a head for a MCS with the M62 SC versus the M45 where the volume of air being moved through can be higher does this have a significant impact on the the "optimal" head everything else being held constant? or are the differences in volume of air passing through insignificant enough where you wont see a measurable difference between different heads?

I hope this makes sense... I know what I am thinking, just having trouble explaining it after staring at a computer screen for 10 hours...

 

good question... i want to know about the effects of constructive and destructive interference and what meters are being used to determine what will work best.....

 

Someone mentioned driveability regarding modified heads. Isnt it the cam that is a main component behind driveability?

 

Bump...

 

No.
An ideal cam in a crap head is as bad as a bad cam in a good head.

There is also the definition of "driveability". Some may find issue with a high lift high overlap cam, some may not. Depends where/how you drive.

 

it is a system......the chamber shape, intake and exhaust ports, valves, springs, cam etc have to all work together as a "team" to really get it right..... assuming it is a good quality the cam can be chosen to emphasize characteristics of the the hp/tq curve

 

You're reiterating my point. The statement was;

"Someone mentioned driveability regarding modified heads. Isnt it the cam that is a main component behind driveability?"


Staying in context with the statement I kept my response to the parameters of just cam and head.
You can, of course, extend this to encompass factors as far reaching as intake filter design and exhaust tip characteristics.

 

I agree..... I was agreeing with you and embellishing..... no harm meant

 

Exactly

Like a nut case on crack......

A big valve head can have the same effect as a high lift short duration cam. This same cam in a big valve head will not work as well as a long duration cam. Thining the valves with a multi angle seat can produce a better flow pattern at the top of the combustion area. Ribs or dimples on the intake port can give you turbulance that will amplify ( may not the best word ) the mixture & tend to spread the mixture some what like the GM swirl port. Raising the intake port, lowering the exhaust port can provide better momentum & velocity.
Are you going to use flat top pistons? They make better TQ. If so how do you address the flame front in the combustion area? Dome piston? Same question.
Driveability, that's a word like Cool. For the most part a good head will work no mater what cam you use. There will be driveability issues if you think you are going to use a full race head on the street. Valves I cut for full race have a life of maybe 50 race hours for 1. There are some good street heads out there. The philosophy of builder will influence it's design & how the head will work ( this is a good thing ).

So there you have it. The only thing you need to think about is everything!
Remember paranoia is just being aware, very aware.

 

YEAH......WHAT HE SAID

 

I figured as much./

Cursed lack of inflection in the printed word

Wish I was Mark Twain

 

We have secrets no one else has - how's that for cryptic?

Our numbers include the cam, as does our pricing.

Yes, the cam maters to drivability, but so does the head. We are dealing with an issue on an Australian car now that may be exactly that issue (the head is not ours).

As far as what is on the market and what is coming, I am very confident in our offerings and the numbers we produce. The things to consider are many, and the more experience you have with the MINI head, the more secrets you unlock.

If there are any other questions I missed, let me know. I'd be happy to answer them. Please contact us with your goals for specific applications. Trying to tailor the response for everyone is a lot harder than getting the specifics and building the package accordingly.

Hope that helps!
Randy
randy@webbmotorsports.com

 

what is the issue, if you don't mind me asking?

 

can anyone identify a before/after power increase to their head alone...... I took off stock and put on X head and achieved X hp/tq......

 

Bob,

Check your PMs.

 

it sounds like fireballed tuls is going to be the first to offer credible before and after dynos re. head work header and tune.

 

I learned something today that I will make a new thread when I get the pictures....

It does NO good to buy a high performance head and not match the exhaust output to the header.......

If you do not do this you still have a bottleneck and you do not get the performance that you paid for.....

 

Is this port match to choice header or "system optimization" ?

 

no clue..... I'm still chasing system optimization.....

the wms head has ports that are 1 5/8 x 1 1/8..

the megan, milltek and stock header are 1 3/8 x 1

I have had the head on my car for 2 years without being matched .... stupid me ..... and today through a conversation with Don at dmh I looked at the megan when we took it off and discovered about 1 sq inch not being used..... when Dave port matched the header the car woke up and started running the best it has ever run...... I have no ideas about numbers but I am very satisfied finally with the WMS head and the 62 SC......

hey, I'm learning...... thanks Don

 

can leave bruises, but the lessons are rarely forgotten!

This is really the difference between "bolting on" and really improving the system. One of the guys who was posting (I think it was Willy69) had some really good numbers with a suprisisngly sparse list of mods, all by matching the parts....

And of course, this type of work is the more expensive kind! One way to avoid biggies like this is to see how a port-matched gasket (don't want to cover those big holes with a gasket) matches up to what you have to bolt on, intake or exhaust....

Matt

 

This is another reason to buy a complete kit where everything (intake - head - header) is port-matched. Preferably even the gaskets are trimmed to the exact physical dimensions of the ports.

 

i'm assuming OBX headers don't match up to OEM exhaust ports. Maybe it's worth getting them port-matched, or maybe i should just wait till i get a performance head, and i'll port-match the whole system.

I think what Bob means about matching the headers to the head isn't just port matching, i'm sure he means matching the headers to the cam timing and hence exhaust flow of the performance head/cam, and indeed the whole system.

 

Thanks to you contributers to this thread who have busted your knuckles and spent your good money through all the hard knocks, and then had the additional energy and generosity to write and argue about it, and sometimes even get into violent agreements. You have collectively saved me a lot of wasted time, grief and money.

I finally see that at least as important as designing and manufacturing great components is the INTEGRATION of those components.

Modern "mass-production" manufacturing and assembly (even the MINI's) aren't nearly as good as I had always expected. AND even the best quality and most expensive aftermarket parts need some "love" when being integrated into a system.

It takes patient work by knowledgeable experienced people preparing well-engineered quality parts to put a machine together that really howls.

Thanks to all you other NAMmers for these valuable lessons -- and all the other lessons, too, BTW.

 

The head ist on, here are some details:

Parts changed:

- 15% Pulley max boost 14 psi recorded during the dyno
- JCW Airfilter
- JCW Injectors
- JCW Sparkplugs
- GP IC
- Headgasket 0,65 mm
- Schrick Camshaft
- EnginePlus Head with Schrick Valves (Inletvalves 31mm and Exhaustvalves26mm)
- ECU by DigiTec (Limit 7500 rpm)

Take a look to that dynosheet:

Torque: 253,2 NM equals 186 lbs ft