Drivetrain Pulley Installed! (Was: T minus 48 hours to pulley change)
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5th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,014
Likes: 0
Where to begin...
First, I'm not a technical expert on modifications I'm just a guy who is the world's foremost expert on his own opinion. :smile: Secondly, this is all being written about MY car. I've not personally experienced any other Mini's with these mods. I'm going to try and limit the use of exclamation points.
My car: 03 MCS with the Mini Motorsport Intake. http://www.mini-motorsport.com/intake-mcs.php Factory exhaust and no other mods besides the rear anti-sway bar. (Also from Mini Motorsport)
Power: Noticeable improvement. Much more "Torquey". Not only do you have more power you have more power at a much lower RPM. Even 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th are noticeably stronger.
Noise: There is a very slight increase in the exhaust sound at WOT. But it's v-v-very slight. Remember, I had the Magnaflow and it was too loud for my day to day driving. Otherwise, I loved it. A positive thing that did happen is that with the air intake there was a very slight high-pitched whistle that has been replaced with a strong and low-pitched hiss. Very cool. Supercharger sounds awesome! The only thing better is my wife's voice. :smile:
Mileage: Nothing to report yet, still on the same tank.
I have to say that at least on the surface it's absolutely awesome. The car has noticeably more power but doesn't feel OVERpowered. I put a Jackson racing turbo/intercooler kit on my 87 CRX Si and it felt "wild". Too much power. In fact I chewed up a clutch with that kit and had to upgrade it but I digress.
If you do this mod make sure you manage your expectation. It will not lower your 0-60 time to 4 seconds; it will simply give you some more power that is quite pleasant.
Comparison video(s) to follow soon!
Feel free to contact me if you have any questions about it.
-Jim
First, I'm not a technical expert on modifications I'm just a guy who is the world's foremost expert on his own opinion. :smile: Secondly, this is all being written about MY car. I've not personally experienced any other Mini's with these mods. I'm going to try and limit the use of exclamation points.
My car: 03 MCS with the Mini Motorsport Intake. http://www.mini-motorsport.com/intake-mcs.php Factory exhaust and no other mods besides the rear anti-sway bar. (Also from Mini Motorsport)
Power: Noticeable improvement. Much more "Torquey". Not only do you have more power you have more power at a much lower RPM. Even 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th are noticeably stronger.
Noise: There is a very slight increase in the exhaust sound at WOT. But it's v-v-very slight. Remember, I had the Magnaflow and it was too loud for my day to day driving. Otherwise, I loved it. A positive thing that did happen is that with the air intake there was a very slight high-pitched whistle that has been replaced with a strong and low-pitched hiss. Very cool. Supercharger sounds awesome! The only thing better is my wife's voice. :smile:
Mileage: Nothing to report yet, still on the same tank.
I have to say that at least on the surface it's absolutely awesome. The car has noticeably more power but doesn't feel OVERpowered. I put a Jackson racing turbo/intercooler kit on my 87 CRX Si and it felt "wild". Too much power. In fact I chewed up a clutch with that kit and had to upgrade it but I digress.
If you do this mod make sure you manage your expectation. It will not lower your 0-60 time to 4 seconds; it will simply give you some more power that is quite pleasant.
Comparison video(s) to follow soon!
Feel free to contact me if you have any questions about it.
-Jim
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,707
Likes: 0
From: Centerville, Ohio
I am also thinking of doing this mod. What are your experiences with merging in traffic. I often have to megre in Second gear from some really tight Ramps (puts me at 2k rpms) and would like a little more power in the lower rpm band to accerlerate quicker. Will this work for me?????
4th Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 344
Likes: 0
From: Toronto, Canada
>>I am also thinking of doing this mod. What are your experiences with merging in traffic. I often have to megre in Second gear from some really tight Ramps (puts me at 2k rpms) and would like a little more power in the lower rpm band to accerlerate quicker. Will this work for me?????
Why not try double-cluting down into first? I find it almost mandatory if my RPM goes down to those kind of levels. First on the MCS is really tall so from 2nd at ~2000rpm to 1st isn't a big deal just takes a little practice.
Paul
Why not try double-cluting down into first? I find it almost mandatory if my RPM goes down to those kind of levels. First on the MCS is really tall so from 2nd at ~2000rpm to 1st isn't a big deal just takes a little practice.
Paul
1st Gear
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
From: west palm beach
Are you going to dyno your car?
We dyno'd one here in Florida, 90 degree very humid.
Car had intake, ECU and pulley mod. Base line was 146.5 HP, 134.6 TQ. After even with the heat we had 176.9 HP, 158.6 TQ.
Car drove great just as you said more torque everywhere.
We had a very cool day two days ago, in mid 50's and the car felt as if it had another 10 HP over when we dyno'd it. Wish we had more cool days in Florida.
We dyno'd one here in Florida, 90 degree very humid.
Car had intake, ECU and pulley mod. Base line was 146.5 HP, 134.6 TQ. After even with the heat we had 176.9 HP, 158.6 TQ.
Car drove great just as you said more torque everywhere.
We had a very cool day two days ago, in mid 50's and the car felt as if it had another 10 HP over when we dyno'd it. Wish we had more cool days in Florida.
3rd Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 266
Likes: 0
From: Redmond, WA
>>Are you going to dyno your car?
>>
>>We dyno'd one here in Florida, 90 degree very humid.
>>
>>Car had intake, ECU and pulley mod. Base line was 146.5 HP, 134.6 TQ. After even with the heat we had 176.9 HP, 158.6 TQ.
>>
Which ECU upgrade?
Could you post or mail me your dyno plot?
Here is mine (I have the Intake and Pulley but no ECU upgrade):
Looks like the ECU is good for another 10 ft-lbs of torque and 13HP! Cool!!
Link to my MCS web page...
--
Sleepless
>>
>>We dyno'd one here in Florida, 90 degree very humid.
>>
>>Car had intake, ECU and pulley mod. Base line was 146.5 HP, 134.6 TQ. After even with the heat we had 176.9 HP, 158.6 TQ.
>>
Which ECU upgrade?
Could you post or mail me your dyno plot?
Here is mine (I have the Intake and Pulley but no ECU upgrade):
Looks like the ECU is good for another 10 ft-lbs of torque and 13HP! Cool!!
Link to my MCS web page...
--
Sleepless
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,707
Likes: 0
From: Centerville, Ohio
>>Why not try double-cluting down into first? I find it almost mandatory if my RPM goes down to those kind of levels. First on the MCS is really tall so from 2nd at ~2000rpm to 1st isn't a big deal just takes a little practice.
>>
>>Paul
>>
This may sound (IS) dumb? What exactly is double clutching?
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6th Gear
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,359
Likes: 1
From: New Jersey
>>I am also thinking of doing this mod. What are your experiences with merging in traffic. I often have to megre in Second gear from some really tight Ramps (puts me at 2k rpms) and would like a little more power in the lower rpm band to accerlerate quicker. Will this work for me????? >>>>>>
Yes. It will make a huge difference!
Yes. It will make a huge difference!
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,649
Likes: 0
From: 14605
>>
>>>>Why not try double-cluting down into first? I find it almost mandatory if my RPM goes down to those kind of levels. First on the MCS is really tall so from 2nd at ~2000rpm to 1st isn't a big deal just takes a little practice.
>>>>
>>>>Paul
>>>>
>>
>>
>>This may sound (IS) dumb? What exactly is double clutching?
This is on its way to becoming a lost art .... synchros in almost any modern gearbox are good enough that they don't need driver intervention like they once did ...
When you are downshifting, the shaft speeds of the gear you are coming from don't match what the speeds should be for the gear you are going to - synchos (synchronizers) are little 'brakes' that slow an adjoining shaft or gear to the speed of the shaft or gear next to it; if the synchros are worn or the shifting is too quick to let them do their job, double clutching is a way for the driver to match those adjoining shafts' speeds.
You first depress the clutch and take the box out of a gear and release the clutch, then you blip the throttle to raise the engine speed to as close to the desired new engine speed as you can and depress the clutch again. Throw the lever into the lower gear and release the clutch ..... that's it - but you do it in half a second.
or ...If the difference between third and second is 1000 rpm, when you downshift from third to second the engin is turning 1000 rpm faster than it was for the same road speed. When you shift, either the synchros or your double-clutching has to correct for that rpm difference in the gearbox speeds relative to the engine speed ...
...in old minis it was second nature ... in new MINIs you probably never need it on the road ..
>>>>Why not try double-cluting down into first? I find it almost mandatory if my RPM goes down to those kind of levels. First on the MCS is really tall so from 2nd at ~2000rpm to 1st isn't a big deal just takes a little practice.
>>>>
>>>>Paul
>>>>
>>
>>
>>This may sound (IS) dumb? What exactly is double clutching?
This is on its way to becoming a lost art .... synchros in almost any modern gearbox are good enough that they don't need driver intervention like they once did ...
When you are downshifting, the shaft speeds of the gear you are coming from don't match what the speeds should be for the gear you are going to - synchos (synchronizers) are little 'brakes' that slow an adjoining shaft or gear to the speed of the shaft or gear next to it; if the synchros are worn or the shifting is too quick to let them do their job, double clutching is a way for the driver to match those adjoining shafts' speeds.
You first depress the clutch and take the box out of a gear and release the clutch, then you blip the throttle to raise the engine speed to as close to the desired new engine speed as you can and depress the clutch again. Throw the lever into the lower gear and release the clutch ..... that's it - but you do it in half a second.
or ...If the difference between third and second is 1000 rpm, when you downshift from third to second the engin is turning 1000 rpm faster than it was for the same road speed. When you shift, either the synchros or your double-clutching has to correct for that rpm difference in the gearbox speeds relative to the engine speed ...
...in old minis it was second nature ... in new MINIs you probably never need it on the road ..
4th Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 344
Likes: 0
From: Toronto, Canada
I completely agree, great explanation. I agree, a modern gear box with syncros it's not really needed, I find it helps from 2nd to 1st quite a bit. This is the first car I've owned where down shifting into 1st is almost mandatory.
Paul
6th Gear
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,359
Likes: 1
From: New Jersey
>>
>>I completely agree, great explanation. I agree, a modern gear box with syncros it's not really needed, I find it helps from 2nd to 1st quite a bit. This is the first car I've owned where down shifting into 1st is almost mandatory.
>>
>>Paul
Yes, you do need to downshift to 1st at times. But there IS a way around that - get the pulley mod like I did!
>>I completely agree, great explanation. I agree, a modern gear box with syncros it's not really needed, I find it helps from 2nd to 1st quite a bit. This is the first car I've owned where down shifting into 1st is almost mandatory.
>>
>>Paul
Yes, you do need to downshift to 1st at times. But there IS a way around that - get the pulley mod like I did!
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,892
Likes: 0
From: Long Island, New York
Well I've been watching and listening as of late for a while now...
This site has become the "pulley channel " ...:smile:
I made an appointment w/ Eric of Helix to have the pulley done..next friday....
I've got a co-pilot in Vdubdoug to make the 115 mile trek to Phily from LI.
From what everyone is touting the "pulley" seems to be the "magic bullet" for this car. Given the money invested & the increase in performance....it seems the most prudent direction.
I'm tempted to also do the stage #1 brake upgrade (lines, pads, rotors & fluid) as well. I'm still thinkin on that one
Peace,
D
This site has become the "pulley channel " ...:smile:
I made an appointment w/ Eric of Helix to have the pulley done..next friday....
I've got a co-pilot in Vdubdoug to make the 115 mile trek to Phily from LI.
From what everyone is touting the "pulley" seems to be the "magic bullet" for this car. Given the money invested & the increase in performance....it seems the most prudent direction.
I'm tempted to also do the stage #1 brake upgrade (lines, pads, rotors & fluid) as well. I'm still thinkin on that one
Peace,
D
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,258
Likes: 0
From: Portland OR
>>I think the next thing we need is a good ECU to go with the pulley. I'd like to see 15 horses and 10 lbs of torque - that would be AMAZING to me. But I think 10 lbs of torque will be very hard to come by from a ECU...
Thankfully this may be coming soon!
R
Thankfully this may be coming soon!
R
>>I'm tempted to also do the stage #1 brake upgrade (lines, pads, rotors & fluid) as well. I'm still thinkin on that one
>>
>>Peace,
>>D
Dennis,
I did the Stage 1 brakes and I definitely think it is worthwhile. Once you bed the brakes in, you will notice a better bite when braking.
It's definitely worth it if you don't want to do the whole big brake enchilada.
>>
>>Peace,
>>D
Dennis,
I did the Stage 1 brakes and I definitely think it is worthwhile. Once you bed the brakes in, you will notice a better bite when braking.
It's definitely worth it if you don't want to do the whole big brake enchilada.
4th Gear
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 544
Likes: 0
From: Orlando, FL
from the peanut gallery...
from the explanation of double clutching...is it the same as heel toe braking...but I don't let the clutch out when downshifting, rather blip the accelerator before letting the clutch out to first...
from the explanation of double clutching...is it the same as heel toe braking...but I don't let the clutch out when downshifting, rather blip the accelerator before letting the clutch out to first...
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,649
Likes: 0
From: 14605
>>from the peanut gallery...
>>
>>from the explanation of double clutching...is it the same as heel toe braking...but I don't let the clutch out when downshifting, rather blip the accelerator before letting the clutch out to first...
>>
... heel-and-toe uses brake and gas together - double clutching doesn't always have to be about slowing down so the braking part is an added extra ..... and when you double clutch, you are connecting the engine and gearbox for a brief moment between gears so leaving the pedal in and blipping the throttle doesn't accomplsh that, it just revs the motor (without changing gearbox rev's)
>>
>>from the explanation of double clutching...is it the same as heel toe braking...but I don't let the clutch out when downshifting, rather blip the accelerator before letting the clutch out to first...
>>
... heel-and-toe uses brake and gas together - double clutching doesn't always have to be about slowing down so the braking part is an added extra ..... and when you double clutch, you are connecting the engine and gearbox for a brief moment between gears so leaving the pedal in and blipping the throttle doesn't accomplsh that, it just revs the motor (without changing gearbox rev's)