My Cooper S has just given 239hp & 200.0lb/ft of Torque on AmD in the uk's rollers, over 200lb/ft of torque..

Not sure how it accurate it is, however meant to be one of the most reliable and dependable in the uk..

On the way home had to fill the car with a full tank of normal unleaded :evil: it pulls much better than the before the fuel was tweaked and exhaust was fitted..felt more like 225hp but will reserve judgement when have 98ron and half a tank.

I have the Hartge conversion, K&N + Full Milltek exhaust..AmD also tweaked the fueling on the ecu.

Looks like breathing was a massive restriction with the Hartge conversion & standard exhaust over 4k rpm..

They are looking into a charger cooler, hopefully that would reduce the heat soak caused by putting the intercooler ontop of the engine..

Will post the graphs tomorrow, oh and pics of the car on H&R springs and full Milltek exhaust...



_________________
http://www.angrybeats.co.uk

Beware some of these guys here will tear you up for making claims like that...That's pretty impressive.

What kind of drivetrain loss are you using, and under what conditions?

Very nice gains.

I want your setup! That sounds awesome and impressive! The highest I have seen yet!

Looking at the video on angrybeats site, he does 0-top end of 3rd gear in around 14 seconds by my ultra crude timing method. comparing this to my extensive knowldge of mini dragracing i would say that this car definately does have power. hopefully if weather permits i will have 1/4 mile times by monday for the madness intake/magnaflow setup.

Hmmm, call me a naysayer, but that's not right. The Hartge only has a chip and pulley, right? And you have an intake and exhaust, right? So why are you getting 20+ more hp than anyone else. The fueling has nothing to do with it, as the car already runs lean stock. Heck, Randy has headers and a throttle body in there in excess of you, and is making considerablly less power. Sounds to me like a cold run with no driveline loss accounted for. There's no reason your corrected values with chip/pulley/exhaust/intake should be over 200bhp.

R

How much does it cost for me to send my MCS over there to be dyno'ed? That's gotta be a cheaper route than the performance mods I have bought so far.

>>How much does it cost for me to send my MCS over there to be dyno'ed? That's gotta be a cheaper route than the performance mods I have bought so far.

>> The fueling has nothing to do with it, as the car already runs lean stock.
>>
>>R

I think you mean rich.

Full Miltek exhaust would probably include their header and cat.

"Heck, Randy has headers and a throttle body in there in excess of you, and is making considerablly less power."

No disrespect, but Randy doesn't have the Hartge mod either, which from all reports, HP gains are very modest. In addition, we all know that all cars are not created equal as noted by many mini drivers already.

The numbers game really doesn't mean a lot to me, but seeing the videos from angrybeats does. I'd say he's got a heck uva fast car--best I've seen online yet. That to me, is what we are all after. Modifications that increase the grin factor, not numbers to impress someone.

I enjoy reading everyones comments, but it does seem like when someone posts their dyno numbers, there are always a few of the same the say naysayers that try to bring them down.

>>"Heck, Randy has headers and a throttle body in there in excess of you, and is making considerablly less power."
>>
>>No disrespect, but Randy doesn't have the Hartge mod either, which from all reports, HP gains are very modest. In addition, we all know that all cars are not created equal as noted by many mini drivers already.


It's a chip and pulley, as far as engine work goes, maybe an exhaust...but nothing more than what Randy is using.



>>I enjoy reading everyones comments, but it does seem like when someone posts their dyno numbers, there are always a few of the same the say naysayers that try to bring them down.


I'm not questioning that Angry's car is fast...but 239hp is totally unrealistic given the mods he has, unless that was a cold run and there's no driveline loss factored, making it a bhp figure.


R

>>It's a chip and pulley, as far as engine work goes, maybe an exhaust...but nothing more than what Randy is using.

Okay, but does that mean they're mods are equal in perfomance? If they are, then why buy anything but the cheapest one you can find. Have you seen the Hartge claims of 210 + HP? Like I said, they are known to be very modest with their claims. That's only 19hp less than he's claimed. Why would you jump out and doubt soemone when you don't have all the facts? How much do you think is other mods have contributed? I'm not saying he has 239, I'm just saying I'm not going to try bring a man down, when I'm not postively sure of what I'm talking about. Get your cars together, race em', dyno em', cruise in em', then let the rest of us know whose is best. Don't just speculate on it........................................

Man, I can't count how many times I've watched angrybeats' vid and drooled. :smile:

If my MCS accelerated like that ( ) I could care less if a dyno reported 180 hp or 230 hp...

I wasnt expecting 239hp either, I reakon I have around 225/230hp, the conditions were pretty cold and damp in the uk and I expect less power once it was warmer..

Unless you yourselves have tested a Hartge conversion on your Dyno as a comparison then I am happy with my figure as you have no comeback. Even Hartge themselves reakon on the Dyno they have produced 210/220hp..and actually TUV tested so you cannot dispute the numbers.

The car also has a Full milltek system which includes Manifold / freer flowing cat and exhuastand looking at before and after graphs the free flowing exhaust makes a massive difference over 4k rpm...

That vid of mine was done with just the Hartge conversion and 0-100 in around 16ish seconds, midrange its quite a bit faster now and from the curves you can see why...sub 16secs should be a posibility now.

I'm not saying AmD's dyno is 100% accurate, like all rolling roads there will be some error, however various magazines use AmD 's rolling road as a benchmark for their tests as it continualy gives accurate results.

I'm doing a proper Qtr mile on Sunday so should give me a good indication that the hp is correct..

AmD have a huge reputation in the VW, Porsche and Audi tuning world and I'm glad I chose them to work on my MINI..



_________________
http://www.angrybeats.co.uk

>>I don't know how you can say this with a serious look on your face Have you seen the Hartge claims of 210 + HP? Like I said, they are known to be very modest with their claims. That's only 19hp less than he's claimed. Why would you jump out and doubt soemone when you don't have all the facts? How much do you think is other mods have contributed? I'm not saying he has 239, I'm just saying I'm not going to try bring a man down, when I'm not postively sure of what I'm talking about. Get your cars together, race em', dyno em', cruise in em', then let the rest of us know whose is best. Don't just speculate on it........................................


JBOO, without being an ***, I do know what I'm talking about. Hartge's claims of 210 is BHP, not FWHP, and that's inflated at that. Randy has done extensive testing with several ECU mods as well as just about every part available to date. He has not been able to get near that number, and he's got at least a throttle body more than Angry. There's nothing that special with the Hartge ECU to give it such CONSIDERABLE gains over what everyone else is seeing via various dynos. Which brings me to the point about us dyno users. We can smell a ringer run, and this is just that. There is non corrected driveline loss figures and obvious cold engine action going on here. Several people have tested various similar products and claimed gains no where near what Angry is claiming.

Heck, I had a Quicksilver exhaust run on the dyno that showed a gain of 20+ hp...but when we stepped back and ran it a few more times for clarity, that figure came down to about 12hp.

R

Hey Angry, just to be clear, you are purporting BHP figures, right?

R

Yes Bhp..

IS this a Randy own forum or something ? I probably have a faster car and all hell breaks loose.. :smile:

So enough of talking numbers lets see some real performance figures, and actualy get driving your cars..

Am I the only one that shows my car at work ?






_________________
http://www.angrybeats.co.uk

I'm not "slagging" you (to use your own words ) at all. I just really question why you are getting claims that no one else is reporting. That's all. Call me Skeptic Davbret.

R

>>>> The fueling has nothing to do with it, as the car already runs lean stock.
>>>>
>>>>R
>>
>>I think you mean rich.

D'oh! Yup, rich. Thanks, my bad.

R

angrybeats can confirm, but I've read in multiple sources that the Hartge mod includes some flow work done to the supercharger to improve top end flow; more than just a 15% pulley. The dyno plots I've seen would confirm as it has a higher peak torque rpm and a more dramatic HP peak, right at redline, than any other mod/dyno plot I've seen.

Also, the Hartge is "conservatively" rated at 210HP for the purposes of TUV approval. Hartge hints that 215-220 is not uncommon and a plus or minus 5 to 10 HP variance from car to car would not be surprising (precisely why they rate it conservatively for TUV). Another 10 to 15 HP gain with an improved complete intake and exhaust path is reasonable.

Finally, Hartge has a relationship with BMW that goes back a long way. They probably had access to ECU data well ahead of most aftermarket tuners (with the likely exception of JCW). Randy has said himself that he thinks there are significant gains to be had when the ECU tuning matures; Hartge is just likely a couple years ahead in their development process.

Given all that, I think 230-235 HP is very possible with angrybeats' setup. I know the videos of his car in action are very impressive. I'm sure with a little more time, Randy will be there too. So, please, let's remain respectfully skeptical, but open minded.

Nice work angrybeats!

Cheers,

James

>>On the road it feels more like 230hp to me, I have a full tank of fuel mind. >>>


The funniest part to me are people quoting things like it feels more like 230 vs 239 hp! Who can possibly tell 3.5% increase in HP?!

And what does 230 feel like? I had two Mustang GTs with 215 hp. But those cars were much heavier than the MINI. So 215HP in a mustang is apples and oranges compared to 215 in a MINI. I'd say that 163HP in a stock S was slightly slower than my Mustangs and now 183-ish HP in my S is noticeably faster than the Mustangs I had. Besides torque is more of whatt you feel, not HP. My torque is around 20lbs higher and the difference between 155 and 175 lbs of torque in a MINI is huge!!! I couldn't even imagine what 195-200lbs of torque would be like....but I wouldn't mind getting there! I'll probably "settle" for 185lbs or so of torque though...

I'm not taking any sides but let me throw something out there for all the naysayers to nibble on. There are a few distinct differences between Randy and AngryBeats.

1. Miltek is a 4-1 which I tend to think is a much better design for this engine. On an eaton supercharged 4cylinder GSR motor, a short 4-1 makes almost 20hp more than the best 4-2-1.
2. AMD did additional fuel work, which randy cannot do. He's already stated that Bob @ IDA found 20 horsepower with the SMT-6 and he's told me that UNICHIP found 18 on a stock S.
3. And last but not least, the quality of gas in the US is horrible. Its been stated that the mini's stock computer is tuned for 98 octane. You're not going to find that at the pump in Denver and even point for point, the quality of our gas doesnt stack up to other country's. Even people from Canada will tell you this! (i'd be interested to hear of canadian dyno numbers) more octane = more timing, more timing = more power

I realize Randy has a lot of pull around here but its ok that he's not king of the hill anymore. He's realy die hard about finding the most power but just because someone else found more doesnt make it unacceptable.

and in closing: peak numbers are for benchracers.

:smile:

--
Cheese

most of the US performance enthusiasts measure elapsed time for a standing start 1/8 mile, 1/4mile and time for 0-60 mph.

wheel spin will be a major factor, but I have personally seen 15.1 sec in the 1/4 mile from a car with what we assume is about 150 hp at the wheels.
with a car more equipped, (165 hp at the wheels...with a pulley, header, stock cat, exhaust and intake, lightweight wheels and Toyo tires) I would think mid 14's is available.

230hp at the flywheel would convert to about 190(?)a the the wheels and that should hit low 14's with a good driver, since wheelspin will be ferocious.

I don't think 230/190 is so unrealistic; randy is getting 186 or something with no headwork and not optimized chipping. Evo has seen 179 with their chip and the pulley. Put in the dyno variablity, heat soaking and airflow standardizing (lack of) just for kicks.

>>Looks like I'm the only one that has the GUTS to post a 0-100 time to back up my claims and yet I get slagged off. :smile:
>>
>>So enough of talking numbers lets see some real performance figures, and actualy get driving your cars..
>>
>>Am I the only one that shows my car at work ?


Actually, we have posted vids of my car at the track as well. I'll bug ficcion again to see if he can post them again (there is a limited webspace available). There is a small video of the front straight here, but that was actually pre-pulley.

I'll get some more video the week after this - that's the soonest I can get someone out to the track with me for video. I'll be there Friday and Tuesday, so if anyone in the Denver area wants to come out, give me a call.

As far as posting 0-100 numbers, I live in Denver at 6000'. My performance numbers are way off what they would be at sea level, so I can't do an apples to apples comparison.

I don't doubt your numbers, and I would love to be able to have both cars to evaluate side by side, but the tuner numbers just don't mean anything to me anymore - TUV or not. As I asked before, do you know the driveline loss applied in percentage? The cold and damp shouldn't matter as the dyno makes density corrections to standard atmosphere. The cold I think Ryan and other may be referring to is engine temp. We've found a significant difference in cold versus operating temperature numbers.

The dyno is a tool. It doesn't matter what the numbers are, as they can be manipulated - even if not on purpose - by different factors. The important thing is to make the comparisons on the same dyno in as close to the same conditions as possible. If I wanted to, I could make 230 horsepower just by manipulating things (and by all means, I'm not saying you did that mn_angrybeats).

The Hartge package does include chamfered ports for the inlet and outlet, but that's not rocket science. It's probably worth (and this is non-scientific) 10 horsepower at the most. Let's do some speculative math.

Supercharger mod = 10hp
pulley mod = 20hp
ECU = 15hp

That would be 208hp at the flywheel.

Let's do some more math.

Header with cat (the same one I tested by the way) 10hp
Cat back exhaust 17hp
Cumulative gain 22hp

Let's add that (eventhough it isn't exactly cumulative).

22hp+208hp=230hp

If he is using 15% driveline loss, this number is reasonable. IF I used flywheel numbers, I think it may have made a difference in the perception of all of this. What I'd like to see, mn_angrybeats, is your non-corrected wheel hp figures. I think they will be very similar to what we have seen here.

BTW, I don't think you're faster, as I've done other things lately .

My numbers have been between 183 and 186 pretty consistently with the same mods you have other than the throttle body I have and the chamferred inlet and outlet on the supercharger you have. IF I use a 15% driveline loss, I would get around 220hp. That ten horsepower difference could be in the different dyno set-ups, or even in the density calculation or the gear the run was done in. It could also be a difference in operating temperature. Dyno comparisons from across the world are fun, but they aren't very useful. I don't care about bragging rights really, so I have no problem saying you have the highest numbers in the world.

Can't we all just get along?